The weak administration strikes again. Isreal and Hamas going at it

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denialist said:
So you are arguing that because the international powers turned their backs against the plight of the Jews, the subsequent formation of Israel and all that ensued was justified?
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I think there was a strong push from within jewish world for self preservation. I don't care for the zionist movement. I don't think it was very legitimate considering it was strictly atheistic in nature, if I were looking at it from the perspective of a religious jew. But at that point I can understand a religious jew not really caring about the leaders personal foibles, just wanting to abandon ship on europe and russia to a nation of it's own. . And indeed they did when aliyah was provided. I think there could've been better leadership.

Do I think it was justified? Man, that is a tough question. I think if you are jewish and weren't in the states during the first half of the 20th century you'd definitely say it was justifiable. Many there in Israel seem to have a mindset that if they lose Israel, they will all be destroyed. Strangely there are almost as many jews in the United States as there are in Israel but migration is tight both ways unless you're a jew making aliyah, then it's paid for. It's almost like Babylon in ancient times when they were freed to return to the holy land, but many jews stayed.

I would really like to hear any thoughts you have there.
 
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denialist said:
Are you curious what the Israelis think of their government, are they absolved?
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There has been some thorough reporting on that issue, actual demonstrations in Israel by Israelis against the war.
But of course that doesn’t answer my original question, does it?
 
84superchamp said:
There has been some thorough reporting on that issue, actual demonstrations in Israel by Israelis against the war.
But of course that doesn’t answer my original question, does it?
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I’m not aware of any specific reporting, but it’s safe to assume some support, some don’t, and some are ambivalent, like anywhere. I doubt dissidents have the luxury of protesting right now, as they’re just trying to survive.
 
VonBonfire said:
I think there was a strong push from within jewish world for self preservation. I don't care for the zionist movement. I don't think it was very legitimate considering it was strictly atheistic in nature, if I were looking at it from the perspective of a religious jew. But at that point I can understand a religious jew not really caring about the leaders personal foibles, just wanting to abandon ship on europe and russia to a nation of it's own. . And indeed they did when aliyah was provided. I think there could've been better leadership.

Do I think it was justified? Man, that is a tough question. I think if you are jewish and weren't in the states during the first half of the 20th century you'd definitely say it was justifiable. Many there in Israel seem to have a mindset that if they lose Israel, they will all be destroyed. Strangely there are almost as many jews in the United States as there are in Israel but migration is tight both ways unless you're a jew making aliyah, then it's paid for. It's almost like Babylon in ancient times when they were freed to return to the holy land, but many jews stayed.

I would really like to hear any thoughts you have there.
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I understand and sympathize with the desire for a national homeland. I don’t think this was the manner, or perhaps place, to accomplish it.
 
denialist said:
I understand and sympathize with the desire for a national homeland. I don’t think this was the manner, or perhaps place, to accomplish it.
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Perhaps but it seems illogical from a jewish standpoint to choose another place.
 
denialist said:
I’m not aware of any specific reporting, but it’s safe to assume some support, some don’t, and some are ambivalent, like anywhere. I doubt dissidents have the luxury of protesting right now, as they’re just trying to survive.
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I try not to ASSUME anything, just go with the facts that are reported. None of those reports include opinions of Palestinians who are suffering through this and their thoughts on Hamas for dragging them into it.
 
84superchamp said:
My point, what ARE they thinking when considering the origin of the last 2 weeks of disaster.
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We've considered the formation of Israel and subsequent treatment of the Palestinians extensively in this thread. You can draw your own conclusions.
 
No answer. Makes me sad; an important question needs answering and no one is asking the question. Even here, nothing but argumentative evasion.
 
Former Congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney:
During my very first campaign for the Congress...the very first thing I was asked to do was to sign a pledge of loyalty to Israel. This was 1992 when I was running, and when I said it, people didn't believe me, because no one had ever said anything like that before. Now, it's very commonplace. In the UK you have certain groups that require the parliamentarians—while they are campaigning, before they are elected—to make this pledge to Israel.

I was asked to do the pledge. I refused to do the pledge, and as a result of that I was in day-to-day trench warfare the entire 12 years because I didn't go along with the plan, and I presume that I was the first one who didn't. I certainly was the first one to blow the whistle on me being a US citizen having to pledge my allegiance to a foreign country...
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denialist said:
Former Congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney:
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I’ve heard of that, the enforced pledge to Israel, and it’s abhorrent, nothing else like it in US policy. What if Netanyahu becomes a complete dictator? Policy still stands? US citizens don’t need that and it’s too easy to equate it with subversive Jewish political activity, which may or may not be true.
 
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Interesting History you probably never heard of..................1967

If you want the short version...
 
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DEVELOPING STORY: Commanders within the Hamas terrorist organization ordered militants to behead Israeli citizens and cut their feet. Fox News Channel obtained an Israeli interrogation video that showed a captured terrorist describing in horrifying detail the instructions they were given prior to the Oct. 7th massacre.

“Hamas militants were told by commanders to behead Israelis and cut their feet,” Fox correspondent Trey Yingst reported. “This militant says his commander, a man from Gaza City, told them they should not expect to return.”

It was to be a suicide mission.

Yingst says the terrorists exchanged information and videos in real time during the initial attack using a Telegram group. Telegram group – in real time sending videos.

The militant said they were told to step on the heads of civilians and do whatever they felt like.

“We burned, we slaughtered and beheaded people,” the captured terrorist reportedly told interrogators. “We became animals, things that humans do not do.”

Yingst said the graphic nature was more than anything he had seen as a reporter.

“We’ve left out some incredibly graphic details about what Hamas did to the bodies of women they slaughtered,” Yingst said. “They are too disturbing to explain on TV.”

https://www.toddstarnes.com/military-2/hamas-gave-orders-to-behead-jews-cut-their-feet/
 
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