Trouble cutting through with an Uberschall

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JonnyXXXMac

JonnyXXXMac

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Hey all,

Some history on my sound...
My first "real" amp was my 6505+ and my Marshall 1960A. I loved my tone but there has always been that pursuit for better and more so, as my sig outlines, this is where I am with gear. I picked up the Uber and played it with the Marshalls and while it really does sound monstrous, those cabs made it feel lifeless. I went with the Emperor cab and it came back to life with the Weber speakers and AMAZING quality of the cab. By itself the head sounds huge, but as soon as I get my bass player and other guitarist in the mix, I disappear. He's running a 6505 through two Mesa oversized. I have no volume issues (even two speakers down) but as soon as we all start going, I'm lost in the mix. If I run my 6505 into the Emperor, I cut again and we're more evened out. I don't really have the "I need to be louder" complex a lot of people do, I just want to be heard better. So..my signal goes like this:

Gibson Les Paul Classic - Tube Screamer - NS2 (because the ISP was sucking tons of tone from my Uber), Uber, Emperor. That's it. The settings on the Uber second channel (by clock):

Master 12 if not more
Channel Volume 2
Presence 1
High 2
Mid 1
Low 3
Gain 2

Tube screamer used as boost with overdrive off, tone at noon, and volume dimed.

Uber has EL34 Winged Cs and pre's were a mix of TungSol and Sovtek.

Suggestions anyone!?! I'm really starting to get disappointed in what was my DREAM amp..

Jonny Mac
 
The simplest and most obvious solution would be to turn the mids up on the amp.
 
Send it to Mike Fortin. Mine sounds insane now. :rock:

Seriously though, sometimes you have to change your settings in a band mix. What sounds good in the room may be lost once you get a full band behind it. I would agree with the above poster. Start with your mids. Your presence may need to come up some (and I fought with the treble and presence controls on my Rev. 2 before the mods)...
 
I never thought the Uberschall on its own was very interesting in a band setting. I guess it could be with enough pedals. The Uber, when I had one, sat in the background, always on, churning out scooped, low end growl and rattling the bar glasses. I A/B/Y'd it with a Mesa Dual on top for a while, a Mark IV and a VH4. Set one of those amps up to carry the thrashy crunch and cutting mids. Channel 2 on the Uber does not take well to pedals either. There's no way I would try running one on its own for any type of music.

That said though, I love that amp and don't take any of it the wrong way.

Steve
 
On another note turning up the presence and mids on a Bogner will not get you harsh tones. At least in my limited experience. The Uberschall is great at the low end bass and mids like Steve posted. Crank up the Presence and see where it sits. Also not sure about the older Ubers, but if the EQ is similar to the Twin Jet turning the treble control counterclockwise adds thicker mids. Playing mine I cannot see why you should have trouble cutting. I can make my ears bleed if I want to. Try a Vintage 30 mix with it or all 30's. The 1960A is a quad of G12-75 speakers and Webers are not going to give you the best cut with an Uber. You need Vintage 30's. The amp was voiced for them. Also make sure your Tung Sol tubes are intact. I stopped using those tubes. I have had about five of them, since they came out, die quickly on me. All of a sudden I would get a volume drop and it was the Tung Sols losing their transconductance.
They die even faster if you put them in a cathode follower slot.
 
I have no experience with the Über, but I'll add my 2 cents. I found that it's always hard to compete against a 6505 in any given situation. There's a good reason why these high-gainers are so popular, especially in live applications. At one point in time, my band colleague and I were both playing a 6505, but through different cabs. I was experimenting with X-patterns, all-out T75s and Governors. Well, I can tell you, nothing cuts better than a 6505 through V30s. My 6505 through T75s was buried in the mix, the X-pattern and the Governors fared a bit better. Other high-gainers I had (Koch, Engl) suffered from a similar fate.

I would boost the mids first and see if you like the sound. If not, then definitely try an all-out V30 cab.
Cab positioning, rehearsal space interiors...all of those are also factors to consider. Take some time to redial each guitar amp in the room to find its own place in the frequency spectrum. It sounds like the bass and the other guitar are eating some of "your" crucial frequencies.

I guess you can probably make every amp cut. But the question is if you actually like the sound that sits well in the mix. If not, then maybe the amp just does not deliver the tone you're after, at least not with your band.

By the way, funny you find the NS2 better than the ISP. I would say the exact opposite but maybe it depends on the amp.
 
My ISP Decimator G-string works great with my Rev2. If you have a really noisy set-up (guitar, cables, electrical wiring, surrounding interference, too much gain, etc) you may be having to dial the ISP too high up killing some of your tone.
 
Explain to the other guitar player there is no " me" in " band". Then go on to have him adjust his sound to better suit the whole which is both of you. If one amp cant be dialed to cut enough then reduce the cut of the other.

I played with a guy once who I couldn't ever cut through, his prescence and treble were always maxed out. He sounded like crap while I was nonexistent and sounding killer.
 
moltenmetalburn":307nowog said:
Explain to the other guitar player there is no " me" in " band". Then go on to have him adjust his sound to better suit the whole which is both of you. If one amp cant be dialed to cut enough then reduce the cut of the other.

I played with a guy once who I couldn't ever cut through, his prescence and treble were always maxed out. He sounded like crap while I was nonexistent and sounding killer.
Click to expand...

Good advice......

I would never be in a band though with a second guitarist. Its limiting in some ways and a hell of a lot of work. But, it beats being in constant competition when dealing with tone, cut, volume and ego's.

Steve
 
Thanks for all of the advice. What preamps should I get if the tungsols are that bad? I've had good luck with them in my 6505 (minus lifespan) so I figured I'd throw them in the Uber as well. Regarding the mids and presence, I like turning the presence up and will do so, but the mids seem to give a lot more harsh highs than nice mids. The treble seems to be on the really high side of the frequency range so I don't want to go much more with those or they are almost piercing. I'll definitely try it...worst that happens is I don't care for the sound and continue to gig my 6505. I just love the Uber's sound by itself and would love to play it out. As far as the NS2 vs the ISP, I only ran the ISP about half way on the pedal and it still pulled a lot out of my amp. The NS2 (far inferior of a pedal) just works with that amp for me. Everything else I've played, I'd SWEAR by the ISP. And as far as the other guitarist, he listens to me a lot when it comes to sound...he's pretty reasonable so it makes it much easier than previous guitarists I've played with. Thanks again for the advice and I'm definitely going to try setting the mids and presence up. I probably won't be swapping back to my Marshall with the V30s..I wasn't truly impressed before.
 
Does the Uber have a very non traditional type of EQ like the Twin Jet. It's a fine ballance on my TJ between the treble, presence and mids. Shit the bass control adds volume. I have found there is a point where the treble(in between 12:30-2:00 where it almost seems flat. Past that it adds allot of high frequences. Below 12:00 it adds more mids the further I dial counterclockwise. All of this works in conjunction with the prescence and mids. It's almost an active EQ. Number one on your list should be the Vintage 30's.
 
Regarding the ISP Decimator: Half way up is way too much in my setup! There is a point after approx. -40db when the gate starts cutting tone. This is when the cleans do not ring out naturally anymore. Consistently with every amp I have owned, this was the threshold I never went past. I have the Decimator FIRST in my chain, though. One day I want to try out the G-String.

steve_k":3hf4z4if said:
I would never be in a band though with a second guitarist. Its limiting in some ways and a hell of a lot of work. But, it beats being in constant competition when dealing with tone, cut, volume and ego's.
Click to expand...

I'm currently finding out the joys of three guitars (plus one bass) in a post rock setting. There's a Peavey Valveking 100 through an Orange PPC 212, my Diezel Schmidt with a Diezel 212 RL and a Fender Hotrod 4x10 combo. Guess what, the Fender kills the rest! ;) We still haven't found the right balance yet, and very often the Diezel with its darker voicing disappears a bit in the mix but it's getting better as we are learning to adapt to the new 3-guitar situation.
 
I ended up keeping the Chinese tubes after all, and switching the JJEL34's for E34L's. Those power tubes really cut down some of the excessive bass and add more mids, which would help you cut through. I didn't like Tungsols in my Uber, they suck too much of the gain that this thing is designed for. Play with the controls, they're very interactive and you'd be surprised at what you'll find. Talk to your other guitarist and see if he'll work with you.

If you'd like, I find that a Tubescreamer in front and an MXR 10-band EQ in the FX loop works well. Sucks a bit a tone but adds a lot more flexibility to it.
 
I've not tried anything through the loop yet...never really done anything with the effects loop on any amps I've owned/tried. I've always like very basic setups, but that's not to say I WON'T try it. I ONLY run lead channels, but I will tool around with cleans but I have high gain amps because it's all I play and I run my tube screamer in front of the ISP so I had to turn it up more. I'd be interested to see what the difference in noise is with it after the gate. I'm going to order some new pre's because I have noticed a volume drop so one of my tungsols may being on the fritz. I'll also tweak the presence, mids, and treble up and see how it is.
 
Another thing to try is cut the gain down. The gain comes on fast. Turning it down helps to cut better as there is more space in between the notes to fill out the mix a little better.
 
I'll do that too...I typically don't like an overly saturated gain, but the Uber's is so mean. I usually only run my 6505 at 4 or 5 and with it boosted it still rips. I really do love the sound of the Uber but I'd like to stand out live and not get lost. I'll be at the space tomorrow trying everything (short of replacing preamps since I'll need to order them).
 
JonnyXXXMac":rg711nqg said:
I'll do that too...I typically don't like an overly saturated gain, but the Uber's is so mean. I usually only run my 6505 at 4 or 5 and with it boosted it still rips. I really do love the sound of the Uber but I'd like to stand out live and not get lost. I'll be at the space tomorrow trying everything (short of replacing preamps since I'll need to order them).
Click to expand...
Let's hope!!!! :rock: :rock:
 
glip22":3ia1jqgs said:
Another thing to try is cut the gain down. The gain comes on fast. Turning it down helps to cut better as there is more space in between the notes to fill out the mix a little better.
Click to expand...

Great way to look at it. Ive never heard it decried this way " space between the notes" but its a perfect fit. :thumbsup:
 
moltenmetalburn":1l475xpw said:
Explain to the other guitar player there is no " me" in " band". Then go on to have him adjust his sound to better suit the whole which is both of you. If one amp cant be dialed to cut enough then reduce the cut of the other.

I played with a guy once who I couldn't ever cut through, his prescence and treble were always maxed out. He sounded like crap while I was nonexistent and sounding killer.
Click to expand...
Aside from my knee jerk reaction which was "mids" and "presence" based (and watching out for that dirt stomp/booster in the front, sometimes in higher volumes, they can actually add compression which negates the cut in a band mix - albeit you think with your ears it's pounding) advice, the above post is excellent.

My 2 cents has already been given, but just wanted to say, awesome post above :yes:

V.
 
V,

Drop the boost? Is that what you suggest as well? Or that particular boost?
 
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