Uberschall Ultra vs Hell Razor

  • Thread starter Thread starter Influenza
  • Start date Start date
Influenza said:
Over here in Europe, both amps are almost impossible to test in person. It seems both amps follow a comparable highly tweakable modern high gain route.
I wonder how similar or different these amps sound when being compared.
It doesn't help that the Bogner website is still down and that the Wizard website is not really provide any kind of tonal description in detail.

I'd be interested in the basic sound character, the amount of tightness, the amount of saturation being present, the general feel and the noise floor.
Which amp would you chose for which application? From the clips being available I hear some similarities ...
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I've done various videos comparing the two and separately on my YT channel. They aren't reviews, they're just me wanking out death metal riffs with an iphone. Both amps are great and both get you a similar type of metal tone. Beyond metal tones, I couldn't really tell you much about them because that's not my thing nor why I own the amps. Comparing the two for those tones, I found the Uber to be a little more aggressive in the highs, a little less clear and a little bit more compression. The Wizard has the edge on clarity and punch, but the top end is a little more smoothed/less aggressive compared to the Uber. Both have an insane amount of gain, but the Wizard is more under control and doesn't get as noisy as the Uber. I use a Fortin Zuul gate and really don't have issues either way. Neither needs a boost nor would you want to use one with either amp.

I feel the HR is the better amp overall, but in the end, I sold it and kept the Uber. Mainly because I have many other Wizards and the KT150 is definitely my favorite (favorite overall amp too). The Uber gets me close enough to the Wizard tones that I didn't need to keep a $5k amp around and I want other stuff. If I didn't have 5 other wizards, I'd have kept the HR and sold the Uber. You can't go wrong with either amp. If you are on a budget, get the Uber. If you want the best, spare no cost, get the Wizard.
 
Bram576 said:
That is one thing I’ll add, the harmonics are crazy on a wizard. They’re effortless. Only amp I can actually play cemetery gates proper on.
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and you don’t need the gain up high . It’s just tight and rich . It’s just the most colorful amp sound wise .
 
glpg80 said:
My only problem with wizard beyond the arrogant founder is that they have only rock and roll levels of gain. A 5150 iconic eats them for breakfast in that category. For that kind of money it should hang with just anything.
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It depends which model Wizard. The MC I had, sure, not a ton of gain by modern standards. The MTL I had could get pretty heavy and the Hell Razor KT150 I tried the other day (and now want lol) had more gain on tap than most would need (it has 3 different gain knobs and a saturation knob) and even at those over the top gain levels it maintained more solid note definition, punch and clarity than 6505/5150’s or any Engl would have at any gain setting (I’ve tried almost the entire Engl line-up)

Whether it’s worth the price or not is a different story, but it might be (to me at least) the most impressive non-vintage high gain amp I’ve tried so far. Wizard’s and Naylor’s are also the only non-vintage high gain amps I’ve tried that somehow have a fairly raw, organic tone to them vs that uninspiring filtered/restrained sound the other 99% of recent made amps have (I find it awful). That alone gets a lot of respect from me

I actually have on order a Uber Ultra and Silenoz, so will find out about those pretty soon hopefully
 
The problem is punch, clarity and all those fun things are a pain in the ass to record and don’t sit right in a mix like 5150s in my experiences
 
RaceU4her said:
The problem is punch, clarity and all those fun things are a pain in the ass to record and don’t sit right in a mix like 5150s in my experiences
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Honestly think that’s more to do with the person recording than the amp. 5150s sound like cardboard ass in some mixes because people run the mids at 6, boosted, with v30s, sm57, and emgs. But if you drop the mids to 2 you’re in for a good sounding recording.
 
Bram576 said:
Honestly think that’s more to do with the person recording than the amp. 5150s sound like cardboard ass in some mixes because people run the mids at 6, boosted, with v30s, sm57, and emgs. But if you drop the mids to 2 you’re in for a good sounding recording.
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To a point yes, but the dumpy low end of a 5150 or recto is what glues with the bass, the “can of bees” top end is what cuts through cymbals. It might not be pleasing in the room or hearing isolated tracks but in a mix those amps just work
 
RaceU4her said:
To a point yes, but the dumpy low end of a 5150 or recto is what glues with the bass, the “can of bees” top end is what cuts through cymbals. It might not be pleasing in the room or hearing isolated tracks but in a mix those amps just work
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Heck yeah man; I’ll add people screw up cymbals constantly. I used to myself. People put cymbals wayyyyy too loud. If you listen to any good metal record they really aren’t that loud. Volume automation is seriously the biggest tool out there.

I honestly think my in the room tones are a bit dark, but when I throw a mic up to near center of the speaker wala super bright.
 
RaceU4her said:
The problem is punch, clarity and all those fun things are a pain in the ass to record and don’t sit right in a mix like 5150s in my experiences
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Well only one way to find out if it can or not, but given some of the other amps you used I don’t see why it couldn’t and the way the extra 2 gain controls can shape the lows and highs you can tweak it to do a lot of different sounds. I didn’t keep my MC or MTL, but want an HR after I sell enough stuff lol
 
Bram576 said:
Heck yeah man; I’ll add people screw up cymbals constantly. I used to myself. People put cymbals wayyyyy too loud. If you listen to any good metal record they really aren’t that loud. Volume automation is seriously the biggest tool out there.

I honestly think my in the room tones are a bit dark, but when I throw a mic up to near center of the speaker wala super bright.
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Cymbals and drums are a bitch, I’ve gone through I don’t know how many cymbals only to land on the boring old zildjian A customs, just like the 5150 and recto they are classics for a reason, they just work with little fucking around.

As mostly a recording dude now I honestly don’t even know what my recorded tones sound like in the room, I have my cabs mic’d in a closet and my heads right next to me and I play and tweak through my monitors.
 
braintheory said:
It depends which model Wizard. The MC I had, sure, not a ton of gain by modern standards. The MTL I had could get pretty heavy and the Hell Razor KT150 I tried the other day (and now want lol) had more gain on tap than most would need (it has 3 different gain knobs and a saturation knob) and even at those over the top gain levels it maintained more solid note definition, punch and clarity than 6505/5150’s or any Engl would have at any gain setting (I’ve tried almost the entire Engl line-up)

Whether it’s worth the price or not is a different story, but it might be (to me at least) the most impressive non-vintage high gain amp I’ve tried so far. Wizard’s and Naylor’s are also the only non-vintage high gain amps I’ve tried that somehow have a fairly raw, organic tone to them vs that uninspiring filtered/restrained sound the other 99% of recent made amps have (I find it awful). That alone gets a lot of respect from me

I actually have on order a Uber Ultra and Silenoz, so will find out about those pretty soon hopefully
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What’s your opinion on a HR vs an Engl SE? I’m leaning hard to grab a SE and on the waitlist with sweetwater.
 
glpg80 said:
What’s your opinion on a HR vs an Engl SE? I’m leaning hard to grab a SE and on the waitlist with sweetwater.
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The SE is imho, like most Engl’s, a very compressed and synthetic sounding amp that will sound like it’s underwater vs any Wizard. On the positive, it has a lot of growl on powerchords that wizards don’t get, it feels very easy/good to play from all the saturation, gain and compression, very modern and capable of a huge low end that hits below the knees, but ultimately it sounds to me like a cheap amp if I’m being honest in terms of tone quality and detail (or lack there of). This is only thought for the SE EL34 I owned. I don’t know how the new one compares

The HR will sound way more open, defined, articulate, detailed, organic, and raw and punches hard like nothing else I’ve tried (including other Wizard models). I just hear it as a much much higher quality product sonically (no contest imo), but it is apple vs oranges flavor wise and definitely still has that Wizard flavor with the neutral/hollow/smooth midrange that may or may not be for you. It doesn’t have the growl or juice to its midrange on powerchords like Marshall’s or even 6505’s or SLO’s. It’s forte is power, muscle, definition and hard punch and in person I can’t see anyone not being very impressed by what it excels at. I haven’t heard any rivals of what it does well
 
braintheory said:
The SE is imho, like most Engl’s, a very compressed and synthetic sounding amp that will sound like it’s underwater vs any Wizard. On the positive, it has a lot of growl on powerchords that wizards don’t get, it feels very easy/good to play from all the saturation, gain and compression, very modern and capable of a huge low end that hits below the knees, but ultimately it sounds to me like a cheap amp if I’m being honest in terms of tone quality and detail (or lack there of). This is only thought for the SE EL34 I owned. I don’t know how the new one compares

The HR will sound way more open, defined, articulate, detailed, organic, and raw and punches hard like nothing else I’ve tried (including other Wizard models). I just hear it as a much much higher quality product sonically (no contest imo), but it is apple vs oranges flavor wise and definitely still has that Wizard flavor with the neutral/hollow/smooth midrange that may or may not be for you. It doesn’t have the growl or juice to its midrange on powerchords like Marshall’s or even 6505’s or SLO’s. It’s forte is power, muscle, definition and hard punch and in person I can’t see anyone not being very impressed by what it excels at. I haven’t heard any rivals of what it does well
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What about an HR and a MTL2 EL34? Feel free to PM but the insight is helpful
 
Bram576 said:
Heck yeah man; I’ll add people screw up cymbals constantly. I used to myself. People put cymbals wayyyyy too loud. If you listen to any good metal record they really aren’t that loud. Volume automation is seriously the biggest tool out there.

I honestly think my in the room tones are a bit dark, but when I throw a mic up to near center of the speaker wala super bright.
Click to expand...
The metal albums with the best tones mix the drum metal work way quieter than others . A big lesson to learn for getting great tones
 
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