Van halen 1 choke wasn't a c1999 choke

Racerxrated said:
Yep.

I was always a believer in the '68 had to be modded!' take....I mean, that's a shitload of gain on VHI. But, last year I grabbed a 72 50w lead and dug into the VH 68 spec rabbit hole. After adding the fat cap, lowering the V1B cathode resistor from 1.2k to 820 ohm the amp suddenly had WAY more gain than the stock circuit. Easily enough for VHI, II and Fair Warning.
I didn't even variac it, nor change the NFB or mid pot...it was a 2204 level of gain + a little bit more.
Played through GBs it was more than enough to cover any early VH gain wise.
After that, I'm a believer in a stock circuit with some 'off' values from the norm, which sometimes happened at Marshall.
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Wtf I myself have built a 1987 with Ed’s specs leaked by Dave Friedman and the fat cap at 470uf + the 820ohm .68uf and it has way less gain than a 2203 or 2204.

If you want to prove that you can get the vh1 tone with stock plexi I can’t wait lets compare your record to this :

 
Amp_chaser said:
Wtf I myself have built a 1987 with Ed’s specs leaked by Dave Friedman and the fat cap at 470uf + the 820ohm .68uf and it has way less gain than a 2203 or 2204.

If you want to prove that you can get the vh1 tone with stock plexi I can’t wait lets compare your record to this :

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Dude, listen. This isn't hard. There's PLENTY of clips out there, with stock NMV Marshalls and the gain they get. Again, I USED to believe that a stock NMV Marshall HAD to be modded, to get VHI/II gain. Not after hearing MANY clips, including George's Plexi, AND after just changing the parts I mentioned which we all know are FACTORY on occasion, and I was SHOCKED as to the AMOUNT of the gain. Did my amp sound just like EVH's?
NO..absolutely not...BUT the AMOUNT of gain was EASILY 2204 + a little more. Especially through greenbacks.

I never said it was EXACTLY THE SOUND of Ed's magic 68 but the gain levels are EASILY explained by what I experienced, and we all know every Marshall sounds a little different to the next. Then, adding in the other items Ed and the studio used to record, one can easily see that the amp could have been totally stock, albeit with the factory 'accidents' that led it to have a bunch of gain.
Again, I'm only talking about the amount of gain here, NOT the overall tone of the records.
Lets not forget, how much gain is actually used when you record....I've only recorded twice in my life, way back in 89 for a professional demo with 2 inch tape, and then early 2ks for more demos but that was with a pro tools board. With 2 inch tape, my tone to my ears was SUPER clean with a hint of gain...yet, on the tape, it was very gainy. Maybe you've heard a cranked Plexi and it doesn't have much gain? Yet, you record that amp and you'd be surprised how much gain is there.
 
Guys there is one thing we gotta admit if it was josé, the guy really deserves to get more recognition. He made many legendary tones by himself and many people don't know it : Ratt, Motley Crue, Metallica, Billy Idol, Whitesnake, DLR even Pete Frampton used a josé as his main amp for many years.

Remember that some years ago until dave friedman and ossie ahsen began to do explainations about those amps the guy was part of guitar folklore. It was linked to cameron but more like a myth. Most People joked about josé and few people knew it was real.

So if josé did indeed mod eddie's amp then he is one of the most influencal amp builders in the world. I think the guy deserves some recognition if it's the case and there are many testimonies supporting it.

Even if the guy had sloppy work he did came out with some serious mods for high profile artists.

What i discovered through time is that many people buy marshall amps because they like a legend's tone. But often those 70's and 80's legends used hot rod marshalls and people wonder why they don't sound exactly like their heroes and they end up thinking it's only because of the hands of the artist. Yeah the hands of the artist play a great role but it's not the major denominator. But if they made more research they would learn about those mods.

Remember if you buy a generic marshall head you will sound like your neighbour and artists didn't want this back in the days. Moreover there were less pedals. So the easiest solution to sound different and unique was to mod your marshall heads. That's what most legends did even Jimmy Hendrix had the touring mod in his tone stack... it then became a standard in marshall heads.

it still happens today : The slash fan buys a jcm 800 ignoring that slash used a modded amp a SIR 36 and a SIR 39 to get his tone. The metallica fan buys a JCM 800 while james hetfield and even kirk hammet's were modded. People often do lack information about what was really used for the recording. The live gear is also often different from the recording gear.
 
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What pickup is being used also what would be the correct pickup( theres so many)in your opinions would you use for the Van Halen 1 sound
 
Here are some clips from Redplated, all amps are straight in no boosts. NO Varaics on these amps... all wall voltage. If you like the Jose sound then more power to you......but my ears tell me which amp sounds more correct even without Ed's exact signal chain speakers and playing prowess.

1969 Superlead into a PS100 12H-30 speakers has 25uf fat cap on V2 Suhr Alrdrich pickups.


1971 Original Jose modded 3 in 1 amp 12H30 speakers Les Paul R9 in D standard with Suhr Aldrich. G12H30 anniversary speakers


1971 Original Jose 3 in 1 amp 12H-30 Charvel San Dimas Nitro Aged with Duncan Alt 8 pickup. G12H30 speakers


1974 Original Arredondo modded 74’ Marshall. Les Paul Suhr Aldrich and an SM57 on a G12H30 anniversary
 
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Some clips from another RT member here.

Mahogany/maple top CS Charvel and 1971 Stock Marshall Super Lead through UK Greenbacks. (Bare Knuckle Mule Pickups) NO BOOST clips are straight in, Variac is used in upper clip.


 
harddriver said:
Some clips from another RT member here.

Mahogany/maple top CS Charvel and 1971 Stock Marshall Super Lead through UK Greenbacks. (Bare Knuckle Mule Pickups) NO BOOST clips are straight in, Variac is used in upper clip.
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Harddriver i think you are forgetting something there.

1971 super leads are already MK2 super leads they have more gain than the 1968 that eddie had.

the 1971 super lead has high filtering, 2.7k .68uf and 330uf and 820r on V1, plus it has a 5h choke.

If eddie did use a completely 68 stock plexi he had way less filtering than yours, 820r .68uf and 250uf and 820r on v1, plus a 3.5h choke.

if you try those specs you'll see that the tone will get muddier and less crispy.

the 1971 is a different beast while it has more gain range and it sounds crispier overall and stiffier than a 68.

In my opinion Jim has the right eq that's why he sounds so close but he clearly lacks some gain and a lot of drive.

Between jim and rockstah there is a world difference and i think rockstah sounds way closer with his mod V





those are my closest attempts with josé mods with extra gain stages in parralel and the cerrem mod





This build has almost double the gain compared to a stock sl and it sustains like crazy.

it's basically the full stock eddie's preamp with an gain stage (extra tube) and some secret values...

just imagine that the fact josé modded eddie's for him to get this amazing tone isn't it unfair for him that people say eddie's amp was stock if it wasn't the case ?

We can not prove it at 100% but i think that all those testimonies, Eddies first rowdie, David lee roth, José Himself and Michael's anthony bass tech which followed him 30 years. That's a lot of very close people who say the same thing.

Add to this that George Lynch that was already used to play plexis said that eddies live tone was out of this world and that's when he went to jackson lee to get his marshalls modded.
 
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We don’t need a full on VH subforum. I think one thread stickied at the top of this forum would do. Post in there when you want. People will respond lol.
 
Compare away.................................................pull all the reverb and Mark's chops and you will have a different sound, the mod 5 is a good plug play circuit but it does not sound like a heavily variaced plexi. FWIW some 68's had 820/.68uf V1B cathode compliments at times, so those would have more gain than 2.7K/.68uf that became the standard compliment. Just listen to the two different circuits and how different they are, they are not and will never be the same. Once you start getting away from two gain stages the sound and feel changes....period end of story.

Do you hear how warm this amp is in this room clip from sunset sound..... this sounds nothing like a Jose modded Marshall.........


How do you explain this..........I would say Jims amp has all the sustain I hear in the actual album clip.
 
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Mr Amp Chaser you are confusing the perceived gain from VH1 mixdown versus the amount of gain Ed actually was working with in front of the amp, all the live clips and video support this if you listen honestly. That is why I differentiate between recorded gain/tone versus live gain/tone. RacerXrated correctly stated that when recording the perceived/recorded gain is more than what was in front of the live amp. The few times I have recorded with higher gain amps I was always being told to back off my preamp gain from what I liked live because it sounds like shit recorded.

1968 Superbass with a clean boost in front, Ed had some Super bass amps according to Mike Soldano that he loved. Ed supposedly used a Super Bass on Beat.


Here's a 68 plex stack
 
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harddriver said:
Mr Amp Chaser you are confusing the perceived gain from VH1 mixdown versus the amount of gain Ed actually was working with in front of the amp,
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This is the key, here.

It's the difference between close mic-ed mixdown gain at high spls (added compression and sustain) and "in the room" gain at moderate hobby volumes that most "chasers" are trying to replicate tones with.

I know exactly why he thinks there's no way he could get that without modifying a stock plexi - it does seem counterintuitive

...until you factor in the board compression, the feedback and sustain provided by the high SPLs in the room, and the extra squish of the voltage at 88.

It's like one of those puzzles you have to relax your eyes to see the image in. If you never relax your focus (in this case, on the "in the room" sound at moderate volumes) you're never going to see the forest for the trees.

Of course it seems impossible - until you actually get the rest of the pieces of the tone assembled around a vaguely stock, great sounding plexi, then it seems obvious, like it does to you and I.
 
DanTravis62 said:
This is the key, here.

It's the difference between close mic-ed mixdown gain at high spls (added compression and sustain) and "in the room" gain at moderate hobby volumes that most "chasers" are trying to replicate tones with.

I know exactly why he thinks there's no way he could get that without modifying a stock plexi - it does seem counterintuitive

...until you factor in the board compression, the feedback and sustain provided by the high SPLs in the room, and the extra squish of the voltage at 88.

It's like one of those puzzles you have to relax your eyes to see the image in. If you never relax your focus (in this case, on the "in the room" sound at moderate volumes) you're never going to see the forest for the trees.

Of course it seems impossible - until you actually get the rest of the pieces of the tone assembled around a vaguely stock, great sounding plexi, then it seems obvious, like it does to you and I.
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FUCKIN 5 MINUTES ALONE BITCH HUHHHHHHHH
 
Amp_chaser said:
There is no conspiracy theory you have one interview by a journalist of Michael’s Anthony bass tech who said Jose modded Anthony’s bass heads and Ed’s main head. He even said he dropped the amp at Jose’s.

You have Neil zlowzlower the official photograph of the band who interviewed Jose Arredondo some years before his death for a book about Eddie. Jose said he modded the amp with Eddie and it took multiple years to achieve the tone Eddie wanted. Eddie never asked Neil to remove this statement in the book so it has to be true.

Rudy Leiren also said the amp was modded and he was the first Van Halen rowdie and handyman to swap transformers and adjust bias.

Finally you have Chris Merren who saw the amp during the 80’s. He leaked the cerrem mod and he is the one to give enough infos to Mark to make the mod V which is a cascade mod for a plexi. Chris Merren said he leaked enough clues for us to get the original genuine tone. Many on the metro forums were trying to interpret merren’s leaks. The closest achievement was the mod 5. However no one tried to combine it with the Jose master volume and the cerrem mod.



If your stock plexi sounds like this, this isn’t normal.

The leaked picture of sl12301 by Dave Friedman even proves that the mustards were removed.
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Okay.

I mean, I worked for Ed for a bit but okay.

The Boss EQ pushing could give whatever amount of gain you wanted. And turned down via the variac it gets squishy.

I love Ossie. I just disagree.
 
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