Variacs....????

[Gainfreak]

I know for a fact that the shoes I'm wearing deter alligator attacks because I've never been attacked by an alligator when wearing them.

Your statement is erroneous and your logic is faulty.

I speak from experiance. do you? I Used one for years with zero problems other then when I was a newb and first used one. If my logic is faulty then please enlighten me. go ahead and quote textbook horseshit...aint gonna make a bit of differance because I used one in real world situations.
If you haven't used one and you are quoting shit that you read off of the net then kindly shut up.

If you don't want to take my word on it, then ask Victor mason of the Plexi Palace his take on variacs....Oh yeah.... Victor builds ams and he also sells Tenma variacs to be used on amps.

 

[Beforetone]

Years ago at my studio during daytime hours in an industrial area my boogies sounded great. At night when the area was quiet the amps sounded like wtf? Daytime voltage was 108 volts and evening was over 130 volts. I borrowed a variac from the amp tech at work and did a little 108 volt test in the evening and got my sound back! In my hiwatt days I took the voltage selector and put it in the 105 volt hole and that got a very BROWN SOUND only the tubes freaked out rather quickly with a full red glow etc. after 20 hours of use.But that was over 20 years ago before they had Holiday Inn Express.......

 

[Beforetone]

My house voltage is just under 100 volts now and I have to do this test again!!!!!

 

[Odin]

I am a player and a tech, I own a variac, I have built amps, I have used a variac properly (to charge caps) and improperly (to reduce voltage while playing thru my amp). I speak from experience. You guys need to re-read my posts. I never said that misusing a variac will cause damage, I said it may cause damage.

Cathode stripping is not "textbook horseshit" it's reality. Components failing due to excessive voltage is not "textbook horseshit" it is also reality. These things are not certain to happen every time a variac is misused (I misused a variac with no negative effects and I also misused a variac and experienced cathode stripping and tube failure) but they are possible. The original poster asked about variacs and I pointed out the possible negative effects. The amp being used and the amount of voltage variation will have a lot to do with the results.

I also pointed out several other issues that may occur if the original poster uses a variac on a modern amp with solid state circuitry such as loops, channel switching, etc. where the solid state circuit depends on a certain voltage to properly function.

As far as logic goes, saying that you used a variac with no problems so you therefore know for a fact that variacs do not cause problems is faulty logic, just like my example with my alligator repelling shoes is faulty logic. Simply stating two loosely related facts does not prove a theory about anything. Nobody has said that a variac absolutely will always damage an amp, but anyone who states that a variac can not damage an amp is spreading serious misinformation.

 

[Gainfreak]

I am a player and a tech, I own a variac, I have built amps, I have used a variac properly (to charge caps) and improperly (to reduce voltage while playing thru my amp). I speak from experience. You guys need to re-read my posts. I never said that misusing a variac will cause damage, I said it may cause damage.

Cathode stripping is not "textbook horseshit" it's reality. Components failing due to excessive voltage is not "textbook horseshit" it is also reality. These things are not certain to happen every time a variac is misused (I misused a variac with no negative effects and I also misused a variac and experienced cathode stripping and tube failure) but they are possible. The original poster asked about variacs and I pointed out the possible negative effects. The amp being used and the amount of voltage variation will have a lot to do with the results.

I also pointed out several other issues that may occur if the original poster uses a variac on a modern amp with solid state circuitry such as loops, channel switching, etc. where the solid state circuit depends on a certain voltage to properly function.

As far as logic goes, saying that you used a variac with no problems so you therefore know for a fact that variacs do not cause problems is faulty logic, just like my example with my alligator repelling shoes is faulty logic. Simply stating two loosely related facts does not prove a theory about anything. Nobody has said that a variac absolutely will always damage an amp, but anyone who states that a variac can not damage an amp is spreading serious misinformation.

I think we are comming from the same place but wording it differently Odin. I know that a variac can damage an amp and I did say so in my post. He wanted to know if you could use a variac successfully and the answer is yes, you can. With that said, I don;t see why in 2007 that you would want to use one!! I totally understand what you are saying

 

[madstrat]

i bought my variac to protect my old amps-

my wall voltage sits @ 128v or so...

that was putting the plates on a 74sl @ 535v;

new production tubes [el34] cry like babies @ that voltage

so i drop it down until my heaters are @ 5.8v or 5.9v and

now my amp runs cooler, valves last longer...life is splendid..ymmv

 

[* velcro-fly *]

I think we are comming from the same place but wording it differently Odin. I know that a variac can damage an amp and I did say so in my post. He wanted to know if you could use a variac successfully and the answer is yes, you can. With that said, I don;t see why in 2007 that you would want to use one!! I totally understand what you are saying

Ralphie -

I think Odin brought up some valid points, most of which I was somewhat aware of (the potential cathode stripping....big deal, tubes go...) also, having heard that damage could occure, but outside of burning through tubes never knowing exactly what.

The goal is volume reduction without having to resort to a Hot Plate. No solid state animals will be harmed in this volume reduction. My gripe with the Hot Plate is that inevitably the desired volume level ends up being somewhere between the preset clicks...I may have misread something but thought that the variac would reduce volume as well - but probably nowhere near what I'm trying to achieve.

On that note, I think I may have found a winner...it's a bit on the expensive side but it looks to be killer:

Here's a clip of of a dimed 68' Marshall using it:

The big ass dial on the front allows you to just bring the volume back smoothly, and it can be used with 4/8/16 ohm loads, so no need to have 3 different Hot Plates. It's about $350 street price, but if you can use it with different cabs and it performs like it sounds I think it might be worth it.

Steve E

 

[Odin]

I've owned several attenuators over the years. Some were better than others. Depending on what kind of amp you're trying to tame they can be great. I think they work best on 100 watt Marshalls and the like. I've never been able to get a cranked 100 watt head down to decent club volumes with any attenuator without wrecking the tone, though.


My list of attenuators and my thoughts on them:

Scholz Powersoak - hey, it was cheap and used so I picked it up. Mistake.

Marshall Powerbrake - looks cool, doesn't sound so great.

THD Hot Plate - sounds better than the Scholz and Marshall, you have to buy a different Hot Plate for different amps because the impedance isn't selectable.

Dr Z Airbrake - The best sounding of the attenuators I've owned. Still, as with any attenuator I found that trying to cut more than a few db off the overall volume made a noticable change in tone that I didn't want.


For me, an amp with a good master volume is as good as an attenuator. I like the master volume on the Dr Z Maz amps and on my Splawn QR. I've owned many master volume amps where i didn't really care for the sound of the amp on lower volumes.

I'd love to try out a Mojave power scaling amp.

 

[BrentSP]

Variacs are perfectly fine guys as long as you use them properly. Dont krank them up or set them to low and you'll be fine.

 

[Gainfreak]

I think we are comming from the same place but wording it differently Odin. I know that a variac can damage an amp and I did say so in my post. He wanted to know if you could use a variac successfully and the answer is yes, you can. With that said, I don;t see why in 2007 that you would want to use one!! I totally understand what you are saying

Ralphie -

I think Odin brought up some valid points, most of which I was somewhat aware of (the potential cathode stripping....big deal, tubes go...) also, having heard that damage could occure, but outside of burning through tubes never knowing exactly what.

The goal is volume reduction without having to resort to a Hot Plate. No solid state animals will be harmed in this volume reduction. My gripe with the Hot Plate is that inevitably the desired volume level ends up being somewhere between the preset clicks...I may have misread something but thought that the variac would reduce volume as well - but probably nowhere near what I'm trying to achieve.

On that note, I think I may have found a winner...it's a bit on the expensive side but it looks to be killer:

Here's a clip of of a dimed 68' Marshall using it:

The big ass dial on the front allows you to just bring the volume back smoothly, and it can be used with 4/8/16 ohm loads, so no need to have 3 different Hot Plates. It's about $350 street price, but if you can use it with different cabs and it performs like it sounds I think it might be worth it.

Steve E

Steve!!

Odin did bring up some great points but nothing that I didn't say in mine other then spelling cathode wrong lol
The only point I was making was that you asked if you could use a variac successfully. There are a lot of guys out ther who will tell you no.. It can;t be done and that's just not true.

Just for the record, I think Odin and I were pretty much saying the same thing but his was worded much better lol

and on another note, I think that Bad cat device clip sounded killer in that I could not hear much degradation of tone as it got lower!!! You can hear a differance in tone but not enough for me to nit pick.

 

[Gainfreak]

Variacs are perfectly fine guys as long as you use them properly. Dont krank them up or set them to low and you'll be fine.

 

[* velcro-fly *]

I think the best was when I read that some guy wanted to try using one with a Pod

Well, I'm going to use it on my iPOD

 

[Gainfreak]

I think the best was when I read that some guy wanted to try using one with a Pod

Well, I'm going to use it on my iPOD

isnt that mandatory?

 

[Odin]

I should point out that using an attenuator is not completely safe for all amps either. I've never experienced a problem using attenuators, but some manufacturers advise against using them due to potential problems with the amp's transformer.

I use a plexi shield sometimes, which allows me to run the amp louder but not kill the front row. It's still loud on stage, which can be a problem on small stages, but it dramatically reduces the sound in the FOH with no loss of cranked tube amp tone.

 

[Gainfreak]

I should point out that using an attenuator is not completely safe for all amps either. I've never experienced a problem using attenuators, but some manufacturers advise against using them due to potential problems with the amp's transformer.

I use a plexi shield sometimes, which allows me to run the amp louder but not kill the front row. It's still loud on stage, which can be a problem on small stages, but it dramatically reduces the sound in the FOH with no loss of cranked tube amp tone.

I agree 100%

Not all transformers were built the same!!


On another note, I used to crank my 71 superlead on 10 and face it backwards so that I wouldn't kill anyone. I could only do that when we played certain places because of the room size. It also helped that I had a kickass soundguy who put me though the monitors and the PA. I played dry and he added some verb at the board and some delay only for solos. Sounded insane but I could not do that at every place we played.

 

[Odin]

Depending on the stage, pointing the loud amp at the back wall can work. If the back wall is a reflective surface it can get funny, but if the back wall is dead then you can do that and crank up. But you do usually need the amp in the wedges if you do that.

 

[stephen sawall]

I wish someone could make a big sounding amp that was 10 or 20 watts. I have demo the the new THD with the four EL-84's {not out yet} about the best I have heard for this kind of sound. Still pretty loud. What about the brown note?

 

[* velcro-fly *]

I wish someone could make a big sounding amp that was 10 or 20 watts.

The Divided by 13 amps in that range sound HUGE...

The RSA23 at 23 watts is a NMV beast.

Steve E

 

[70strathead]

I should point out that using an attenuator is not completely safe for all amps either. I've never experienced a problem using attenuators, but some manufacturers advise against using them due to potential problems with the amp's transformer.

I use a plexi shield sometimes, which allows me to run the amp louder but not kill the front row. It's still loud on stage, which can be a problem on small stages, but it dramatically reduces the sound in the FOH with no loss of cranked tube amp tone.

I agree 100%

Not all transformers were built the same!!


On another note, I used to crank my 71 superlead on 10 and face it backwards so that I wouldn't kill anyone. I could only do that when we played certain places because of the room size. It also helped that I had a kickass soundguy who put me though the monitors and the PA. I played dry and he added some verb at the board and some delay only for solos. Sounded insane but I could not do that at every place we played.

This is a very intersting and mysterious topic we're on and there are some excellent points coming from Ralph and Odin. The plexi shield thingy I'm actually going to be experiementing with pretty soon when i start playing out again. I sat in front of Joe Bonnamasa's amps ( like 5 feet away) at a small venue and thats what he had and honestly it did not hurt my ears and he was pretty loud. Turning the cab backwards I tried during one set and it sounded killer as well. I've also experiemented with putting marshall Vinyl Cab covers over my cab and sneaking in the mic ...it's kinda muffles the sound, but it will still sound normal through the P.A. I actually record this way.

anyway, all good info!

 

[Gainfreak]

I should point out that using an attenuator is not completely safe for all amps either. I've never experienced a problem using attenuators, but some manufacturers advise against using them due to potential problems with the amp's transformer.

I use a plexi shield sometimes, which allows me to run the amp louder but not kill the front row. It's still loud on stage, which can be a problem on small stages, but it dramatically reduces the sound in the FOH with no loss of cranked tube amp tone.

I agree 100%

Not all transformers were built the same!!


On another note, I used to crank my 71 superlead on 10 and face it backwards so that I wouldn't kill anyone. I could only do that when we played certain places because of the room size. It also helped that I had a kickass soundguy who put me though the monitors and the PA. I played dry and he added some verb at the board and some delay only for solos. Sounded insane but I could not do that at every place we played.

This is a very intersting and mysterious topic we're on and there are some excellent points coming from Ralph and Odin. The plexi shield thingy I'm actually going to be experiementing with pretty soon when i start playing out again. I sat in front of Joe Bonnamasa's amps ( like 5 feet away) at a small venue and thats what he had and honestly it did not hurt my ears and he was pretty loud. Turning the cab backwards I tried during one set and it sounded killer as well. I've also experiemented with putting marshall Vinyl Cab covers over my cab and sneaking in the mic ...it's kinda muffles the sound, but it will still sound normal through the P.A. I actually record this way.

anyway, all good info!

Sup Brother!!

The aiming the cab backwards thing was the last straw that started me using a slave rig just before I called it quits in 91.

I think slaving sounds better then attenuating and it definitely will give you that cranked sound at any volume, but you will loose the speakers envolvment in the tone. (that is if if you dont turn up a bit)(you don't have to turn up insanely loud.. I'm talking gig volume!)

Nowdays , for Plexi use, I think a PPIV master volume used in conjunction with a hotplate just kills. I have seen and heard a few guys do this now and the results are stunning.
It's the best of both worlds because the master volume lowers the overall volume but you can still crank the volume enough to get the o/p tubes working and then use the hotplate to load it back down a bit. Using both allows you to use the hotplate only a few notches to take the volume down whereas you would have to take it down more if you didnt have the MV.

Now with that said, I have since moved on to MV amps for the most part lol