Vh4 not forgiving when herbert is ???

[FourT6and2]

Here is a good Herbie Clip....
My Favorite part is at the 2:00 area........

This is exactly why I chose the VH4 over the Herbert. When trying them out in the store, I had the Herbert's mids cranked all the way and it still didn't have enough mid-range for my taste. The VH4, on the other hand, has tons of mids and is voiced more to my liking. It just sounds and feels more aggressive and has more balls. I don't understand why people say the VH4 can't do metal. It's a metal machine through and through. So is the Herbert, though. Both amps can do any type of music, they're just voiced differently.

That clip sounds good. But, there just isn't enough beefy mid-range for me. No matter how you slice it, even with the mids cranked the Herbert doesn't have enough for my needs.

I have not had the pleasure of hearing a VH4 I went with the Herbert based on a feeling and it has turned out to be a great sounding amp and very versatile. I love beefy mids though so I am sure I would love the VH4 as well. Could have gotten one but ended up getting a Fish and Mesa Power amp instead. Very cool you got the chance to play them side by side and make your decision. Excellent story!

It was a tough decision. They both have their pros and cons. I sat there for hours trying to decide and going back and forth between the two amps. I decided to go with the Herbert but as it was being rung up I changed my mind and went with the VH4. VH4's third channel was why. It's just pure magic. Herbert had a slightly better clean channel and Channel 2 +/- was really cool. But something about the VH4 spoke to me.

 

[Mailman1971]

Man....this is the same old problem for 1st time Diezel owners.

I was in your shoes as well. Wanted the Herbert at 1st. Deal came up for the VH4S that I couldnt pass up.


Never been happier with an amp ever and Never looked back........

 

[MARK2C]

Whats cool about the VH4 for me?
That alot of how it sounds will be on how you play it.
Super sensitive and very dynamic. Attack it HEAVY......you will get HEAVY!
Play it lighter with some volume rolled back.....

I know I keep praising this amp......but its fucking awesome!

Exactly !!!

Whoever said the VH4 is a "cold" amp is either deaf or 13.

To everyone else who is comparing VH4 and Herbert, spare us the debate and just buy both.

I said that the VH4 felt "cold" - and I'm not deaf or 13. I used exclamation marks for a reason; so that people would understand it's a phrase, used to describe something that is, in many cases, difficult to describe unless you actually own it and know it back to front, which I don't. To me, it felt "icy" and "quick"; which is a compliment.

What's the opposite of cold? Warm? In which case you're looking at Vox or Orange, as an example, and the VH4 doesn't sound like an AC30 or a Rocker 30.

It's still not an accurate description of the VH4 overall. From the early amps to around 2003- 2004 they were actually considered dark sounding. From 2005 and 2006
they were made a bit brighter and in 2007 to current production they have been made much, much brighter. Icy would be a description of the 2007+ VH4 with the Treble at
2:00 and the presence at 2:00 on Ch. 3 which is too high. So many VH4 and Herbert clips are made too thin and buzzy. They both fatten up and get massive when you turn the treble down a bit and go easier on the presence and mid cut in the Herbert's case. You also need to step about 10-15 feet away from the cab's to hear what is really going on.

VH4 Clip- A Virtual Clinic of VH4 tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OX8zZrN_LM

Herbert Clip: My Fave with massive chunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0imB2h4Sv-g

The word "cold" is probably not an accurate description to describe a stiff sound, but I still don't appreciate being called a deaf 13 year old, even if it was indirectly.

I read another comment of yours saying you have opinions, but you're polite about them. That felt like an insult more so than a deserved observation or opinion. But that's just the way I took it.

Playing one just once for 10 minutes is not a fair way to asses an amp, especially the VH4.

I understand what you're saying. But there will always be people out there who wish to state their opinions, even if it's only based on 10 minutes of playing, because sometimes that's all they have.

I live in the a very rural area of Ireland. There is not a single Diezel distributor for the entire 6 million people living in this country. I have to travel abroad to try these amps out (and I'm not just talking England). If I only find half an hour of time with something because I've got to catch a flight, I'm not going to bite my tongue because someone else knows more than me.

But I see what you're getting at and I totally accept that my description was unfaithful to the amp.

My first VH4 I bought in 1999 and at that time you had one distributor and maybe two dealers. Their was a six to eight month wait
to get the amp, and I got it from the Distributor who was 3000 miles from me. We all bought them based on reputation and reviews and thankfully they were accurate.
No YouTube, no clips just faith and talking to Stephen Rudnick (C4) and Peter Diezel. People today don't realize how much easier it is to access Diezel products.

 

[White_Van]

I've played them all, and for what I do the Einstein absolutely slays the VH4 and the Herbert.

No comparison really.

 

[RJF]

I've played them all, and for what I do the Einstein absolutely slays the VH4 and the Herbert.

No comparison really.

Around here those are fighting words!

 

[killertone]

Dude... Listen to Andy Wood solo album
https://www.myspace.com/awoodshreds

I know you'll never get the same tone.. but gives you a nice idea

BTW: From your posts you seem upset/frustrated, what is wrong? Diezel makes great amplifiers. simply put, If you want the fastest (tight) response get a vh4, if you prefer something "looser" (for heavy riffs or leads) the Herbert is perfecto. Like Mailman1971 said, they hold their value pretty well, so you don't lose everything if you don't like it.

The Herbert is so tight and responsive, the most tight and responsive amp I have played next to the Wizard, except the Herbert has a smoothness the Wizard lacked which I like better in the Herbert. If the Vh4 is tighter and more responsive than the Herbert.... HOLY CRAP!!!!!

Exactly! I have played both and I thought the Herbert was actually tighter! For me personally, the Herbert does the modern metal thing better to my ears. Not saying the VH4 can't do metal because I know that it absolutely can, but the metal tones I really dig are all in the Herbert.

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Whats cool about the VH4 for me?
That alot of how it sounds will be on how you play it.
Super sensitive and very dynamic. Attack it HEAVY......you will get HEAVY!
Play it lighter with some volume rolled back.....

I know I keep praising this amp......but its fucking awesome!

Exactly !!!

Whoever said the VH4 is a "cold" amp is either deaf or 13.

To everyone else who is comparing VH4 and Herbert, spare us the debate and just buy both.

I said that the VH4 felt "cold" - and I'm not deaf or 13. I used exclamation marks for a reason; so that people would understand it's a phrase, used to describe something that is, in many cases, difficult to describe unless you actually own it and know it back to front, which I don't. To me, it felt "icy" and "quick"; which is a compliment.

What's the opposite of cold? Warm? In which case you're looking at Vox or Orange, as an example, and the VH4 doesn't sound like an AC30 or a Rocker 30.

It's still not an accurate description of the VH4 overall. From the early amps to around 2003- 2004 they were actually considered dark sounding. From 2005 and 2006
they were made a bit brighter and in 2007 to current production they have been made much, much brighter. Icy would be a description of the 2007+ VH4 with the Treble at
2:00 and the presence at 2:00 on Ch. 3 which is too high. So many VH4 and Herbert clips are made too thin and buzzy. They both fatten up and get massive when you turn the treble down a bit and go easier on the presence and mid cut in the Herbert's case. You also need to step about 10-15 feet away from the cab's to hear what is really going on.

VH4 Clip- A Virtual Clinic of VH4 tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OX8zZrN_LM

Herbert Clip: My Fave with massive chunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0imB2h4Sv-g

The word "cold" is probably not an accurate description to describe a stiff sound, but I still don't appreciate being called a deaf 13 year old, even if it was indirectly.

I read another comment of yours saying you have opinions, but you're polite about them. That felt like an insult more so than a deserved observation or opinion. But that's just the way I took it.

Playing one just once for 10 minutes is not a fair way to asses an amp, especially the VH4.

I understand what you're saying. But there will always be people out there who wish to state their opinions, even if it's only based on 10 minutes of playing, because sometimes that's all they have.

I live in the a very rural area of Ireland. There is not a single Diezel distributor for the entire 6 million people living in this country. I have to travel abroad to try these amps out (and I'm not just talking England). If I only find half an hour of time with something because I've got to catch a flight, I'm not going to bite my tongue because someone else knows more than me.

But I see what you're getting at and I totally accept that my description was unfaithful to the amp.

My first VH4 I bought in 1999 and at that time you had one distributor and maybe two dealers. Their was a six to eight month wait
to get the amp, and I got it from the Distributor who was 3000 miles from me. We all bought them based on reputation and reviews and thankfully they were accurate.
No YouTube, no clips just faith and talking to Stephen Rudnick (C4) and Peter Diezel. People today don't realize how much easier it is to access Diezel products.

I don't doubt that.

And it's certainly true; many people do take it for granted that almost anything can be tried out by simply hopping in your car and driving 100 miles down the motorway. And I take it for granted that YouTube and soundclick/netmusicians are available with excellent clips of the VH4 and Herby. But there is something about trying an amp out yourself that is irreplaceable. It overtakes all initial opinions you had prior to trying it out first-hand.

For instance, I don't like Blackstar - I've never been keen on the way they advertise their products and the way they sound - But when I tried out a Series One 100, all my opinions of them went out the window. It was truly a great amp; better than the Soldano Hot Rod I initially travelled across seas to experience.

I feel very sure that I will buy a Diezel one day. But unless I have a €3000 spare lying around, I won't until I get to try them all out side-by-side. Even if I don't have €3000, if I fall head over heels in love with one, I'll find the money somehow, even if I have to sell my body parts. The wonders of credit cars and loans.

 

[Mailman1971]

....and for what I do the Einstein absolutely slays the VH4 and the Herbert.

That is all that matters. If its perfect for what YOU DO then its the perfect amp.
For me? Its the VH4S.

 

[Rob Tahan]

Ive played all 3 and they each offer a little something unique.
For large loud concerts i really find the herbert to be the sweetest loudest biggest monster for that singing lead tone that i go for.
VH4 is definitely tighter and more stiff than the Herbert or the Einstein, but still sounds amazing when cranked!
My Einstein has an amazing array of tonal variations that you would not expect unless you own one. Great for that timmons tone and for just about anything. Although it can beat a dual rectifier for metal i dont consider it a metal amp as far as how it shines best.

In reference to the topic...
After playing so many amps, I dont consider the diezels to be either stiff or forgiving. Somewhere in the middle. They have "dry"er tone perhaps but not stiff. Very nice feel, but very articulate at the same time.
The TONE wasnt necessarily what got me, it was the FEEL.

 

[PaulyPanacea]

i love all u guys!! defenders of the faith!

 

[MARK2C]

Whats cool about the VH4 for me?
That alot of how it sounds will be on how you play it.
Super sensitive and very dynamic. Attack it HEAVY......you will get HEAVY!
Play it lighter with some volume rolled back.....

I know I keep praising this amp......but its fucking awesome!

Exactly !!!

Whoever said the VH4 is a "cold" amp is either deaf or 13.

To everyone else who is comparing VH4 and Herbert, spare us the debate and just buy both.

I said that the VH4 felt "cold" - and I'm not deaf or 13. I used exclamation marks for a reason; so that people would understand it's a phrase, used to describe something that is, in many cases, difficult to describe unless you actually own it and know it back to front, which I don't. To me, it felt "icy" and "quick"; which is a compliment.

What's the opposite of cold? Warm? In which case you're looking at Vox or Orange, as an example, and the VH4 doesn't sound like an AC30 or a Rocker 30.

It's still not an accurate description of the VH4 overall. From the early amps to around 2003- 2004 they were actually considered dark sounding. From 2005 and 2006
they were made a bit brighter and in 2007 to current production they have been made much, much brighter. Icy would be a description of the 2007+ VH4 with the Treble at
2:00 and the presence at 2:00 on Ch. 3 which is too high. So many VH4 and Herbert clips are made too thin and buzzy. They both fatten up and get massive when you turn the treble down a bit and go easier on the presence and mid cut in the Herbert's case. You also need to step about 10-15 feet away from the cab's to hear what is really going on.

VH4 Clip- A Virtual Clinic of VH4 tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OX8zZrN_LM

Herbert Clip: My Fave with massive chunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0imB2h4Sv-g

The word "cold" is probably not an accurate description to describe a stiff sound, but I still don't appreciate being called a deaf 13 year old, even if it was indirectly.

I read another comment of yours saying you have opinions, but you're polite about them. That felt like an insult more so than a deserved observation or opinion. But that's just the way I took it.

Playing one just once for 10 minutes is not a fair way to asses an amp, especially the VH4.

I understand what you're saying. But there will always be people out there who wish to state their opinions, even if it's only based on 10 minutes of playing, because sometimes that's all they have.

I live in the a very rural area of Ireland. There is not a single Diezel distributor for the entire 6 million people living in this country. I have to travel abroad to try these amps out (and I'm not just talking England). If I only find half an hour of time with something because I've got to catch a flight, I'm not going to bite my tongue because someone else knows more than me.

But I see what you're getting at and I totally accept that my description was unfaithful to the amp.

My first VH4 I bought in 1999 and at that time you had one distributor and maybe two dealers. Their was a six to eight month wait
to get the amp, and I got it from the Distributor who was 3000 miles from me. We all bought them based on reputation and reviews and thankfully they were accurate.
No YouTube, no clips just faith and talking to Stephen Rudnick (C4) and Peter Diezel. People today don't realize how much easier it is to access Diezel products.

I don't doubt that.

And it's certainly true; many people do take it for granted that almost anything can be tried out by simply hopping in your car and driving 100 miles down the motorway. And I take it for granted that YouTube and soundclick/netmusicians are available with excellent clips of the VH4 and Herby. But there is something about trying an amp out yourself that is irreplaceable. It overtakes all initial opinions you had prior to trying it out first-hand.

For instance, I don't like Blackstar - I've never been keen on the way they advertise their products and the way they sound - But when I tried out a Series One 100, all my opinions of them went out the window. It was truly a great amp; better than the Soldano Hot Rod I initially travelled across seas to experience.

I feel very sure that I will buy a Diezel one day. But unless I have a €3000 spare lying around, I won't until I get to try them all out side-by-side. Even if I don't have €3000, if I fall head over heels in love with one, I'll find the money somehow, even if I have to sell my body parts. The wonders of credit cars and loans.

I feel your pain. I live in a city with 1.5 million people and it's still a gear boneyard. Zip, nada and nothing other than Splawn, Marshall and practice amps. The last two amps
I really wanted I had to go get. The SLO 100 was in Knoxville, TN and the other amp was is WV !!! 1000 miles later I am still happy that I made the trips. The whole VH4 obsession came in 98' after reading the specs on the amp. It was an alien !!! Four discrete channels, channel inserts, two loops, Send 2, midi and could take any power tube !!!
MUST HAVE !!!! I used the VH4 as my main amp for seven years and then went in a different direction only to wake up one morning in 2008 and getting a new one. They are like heroin. You can kick it for a while but it always creeps up in the back of your mind....

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Whats cool about the VH4 for me?
That alot of how it sounds will be on how you play it.
Super sensitive and very dynamic. Attack it HEAVY......you will get HEAVY!
Play it lighter with some volume rolled back.....

I know I keep praising this amp......but its fucking awesome!

Exactly !!!

Whoever said the VH4 is a "cold" amp is either deaf or 13.

To everyone else who is comparing VH4 and Herbert, spare us the debate and just buy both.

I said that the VH4 felt "cold" - and I'm not deaf or 13. I used exclamation marks for a reason; so that people would understand it's a phrase, used to describe something that is, in many cases, difficult to describe unless you actually own it and know it back to front, which I don't. To me, it felt "icy" and "quick"; which is a compliment.

What's the opposite of cold? Warm? In which case you're looking at Vox or Orange, as an example, and the VH4 doesn't sound like an AC30 or a Rocker 30.

It's still not an accurate description of the VH4 overall. From the early amps to around 2003- 2004 they were actually considered dark sounding. From 2005 and 2006
they were made a bit brighter and in 2007 to current production they have been made much, much brighter. Icy would be a description of the 2007+ VH4 with the Treble at
2:00 and the presence at 2:00 on Ch. 3 which is too high. So many VH4 and Herbert clips are made too thin and buzzy. They both fatten up and get massive when you turn the treble down a bit and go easier on the presence and mid cut in the Herbert's case. You also need to step about 10-15 feet away from the cab's to hear what is really going on.

VH4 Clip- A Virtual Clinic of VH4 tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OX8zZrN_LM

Herbert Clip: My Fave with massive chunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0imB2h4Sv-g

The word "cold" is probably not an accurate description to describe a stiff sound, but I still don't appreciate being called a deaf 13 year old, even if it was indirectly.

I read another comment of yours saying you have opinions, but you're polite about them. That felt like an insult more so than a deserved observation or opinion. But that's just the way I took it.

Playing one just once for 10 minutes is not a fair way to asses an amp, especially the VH4.

I understand what you're saying. But there will always be people out there who wish to state their opinions, even if it's only based on 10 minutes of playing, because sometimes that's all they have.

I live in the a very rural area of Ireland. There is not a single Diezel distributor for the entire 6 million people living in this country. I have to travel abroad to try these amps out (and I'm not just talking England). If I only find half an hour of time with something because I've got to catch a flight, I'm not going to bite my tongue because someone else knows more than me.

But I see what you're getting at and I totally accept that my description was unfaithful to the amp.

My first VH4 I bought in 1999 and at that time you had one distributor and maybe two dealers. Their was a six to eight month wait
to get the amp, and I got it from the Distributor who was 3000 miles from me. We all bought them based on reputation and reviews and thankfully they were accurate.
No YouTube, no clips just faith and talking to Stephen Rudnick (C4) and Peter Diezel. People today don't realize how much easier it is to access Diezel products.

I don't doubt that.

And it's certainly true; many people do take it for granted that almost anything can be tried out by simply hopping in your car and driving 100 miles down the motorway. And I take it for granted that YouTube and soundclick/netmusicians are available with excellent clips of the VH4 and Herby. But there is something about trying an amp out yourself that is irreplaceable. It overtakes all initial opinions you had prior to trying it out first-hand.

For instance, I don't like Blackstar - I've never been keen on the way they advertise their products and the way they sound - But when I tried out a Series One 100, all my opinions of them went out the window. It was truly a great amp; better than the Soldano Hot Rod I initially travelled across seas to experience.

I feel very sure that I will buy a Diezel one day. But unless I have a €3000 spare lying around, I won't until I get to try them all out side-by-side. Even if I don't have €3000, if I fall head over heels in love with one, I'll find the money somehow, even if I have to sell my body parts. The wonders of credit cars and loans.

I feel your pain. I live in a city with 1.5 million people and it's still a gear boneyard. Zip, nada and nothing other than Splawn, Marshall and practice amps. The last two amps
I really wanted I had to go get. The SLO 100 was in Knoxville, TN and the other amp was is WV !!! 1000 miles later I am still happy that I made the trips. The whole VH4 obsession came in 98' after reading the specs on the amp. It was an alien !!! Four discrete channels, channel inserts, two loops, Send 2, midi and could take any power tube !!!
MUST HAVE !!!! I used the VH4 as my main amp for seven years and then went in a different direction only to wake up one morning in 2008 and getting a new one. They are like heroin. You can kick it for a while but it always creeps up in the back of your mind....

Diezel really is the ultimate amplifier company. I've never come across something with so much feel. Soldano, Bogner, Fryette, they all have great tone, just not the feel that Diezel have. Nothing can replace that.

Yeah, I can see why the VH4 would of been such a mystery and a godsend to some at the time. It's still a really advance and practical amp to this day. It's like the Matrix. Even though it was made back in 1999, it's still fresh looking. Some things are just born to last.

I really can't decide which Diezel is for me. I need to go to Germany to try them all out.

 

[PaulyPanacea]

i feel for you guys. when i bought my Herbie years back i had to drive to NYC....and i HATE the city! to go get it. i was able to play a ton of amps @ Ultra Sound Studios..including all the Diezels. and look...like 7 years later i own both. they are both magnificent amps. each one picks up what the other lacks (if that is believable ) Best of luck in your quest!!

 

[Mailman1971]

Diezel really is the ultimate amplifier company. I've never come across something with so much feel.....

+1000 on this!

I went thru damn near every amp out there. They all 'lacked' in one area or the other.
The VH4 rules in all channels.

Just my opinion.

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Diezel really is the ultimate amplifier company. I've never come across something with so much feel.....

+1000 on this!

I went thru damn near every amp out there. They all 'lacked' in one area or the other.
The VH4 rules in all channels.

Just my opinion.

How do you find the VH4 at garage levels? You know, not drumming levels, just loud personal practise?

Btw, do you happen to know whether you can remove two of the power valves to half it's wattage? Just out of curiosity.

 

[Mailman1971]

I think the amp sounds GREAT at all levels. It just OPENS up more the louder it gets.

 

[MARK2C]

Diezel really is the ultimate amplifier company. I've never come across something with so much feel.....

+1000 on this!

I went thru damn near every amp out there. They all 'lacked' in one area or the other.
The VH4 rules in all channels.

Just my opinion.

How do you find the VH4 at garage levels? You know, not drumming levels, just loud personal practise?

Btw, do you happen to know whether you can remove two of the power valves to half it's wattage? Just out of curiosity.

You can run it at 50W, but it only really drops it 3 decibels over 100W operation. With the individual channel
volume and the master volume I have never felt the need to run it at 50W. It's very controllable in the volume department.
At low Master Volume you can get a bit more slice or cut to the tone. Lowering the Channel Volume and raising the Master to
about 12:00 or even 1:00 really gets the power tubes involved. Subtle changes, but useful in the tonal arsenal.
My observance from running it at 50W with EL34's seems to make the amp brighter. Go figure...

I run SED 6550's though and the gain and compression seem to be knocked down a bit over EL34's.

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Diezel really is the ultimate amplifier company. I've never come across something with so much feel.....

+1000 on this!

I went thru damn near every amp out there. They all 'lacked' in one area or the other.
The VH4 rules in all channels.

Just my opinion.

How do you find the VH4 at garage levels? You know, not drumming levels, just loud personal practise?

Btw, do you happen to know whether you can remove two of the power valves to half it's wattage? Just out of curiosity.

You can run it at 50W, but it only really drops it 3 decibels over 100W operation. With the individual channel
volume and the master volume I have never felt the need to run it at 50W. It's very controllable in the volume department.
At low Master Volume you can get a bit more slice or cut to the tone. Lowering the Channel Volume and raising the Master to
about 12:00 or even 1:00 really gets the power tubes involved. Subtle changes, but useful in the tonal arsenal.
My observance from running it at 50W with EL34's seems to make the amp brighter. Go figure...

I run SED 6550's though and the gain and compression seem to be knocked down a bit over EL34's.

Yeah, 6550's are supposed to be more clean and organic than other standard tubes.

It's not actually the level of volume I'm interested in changing, it's the character of the tone. Sometimes I prefer the character of a 50 watt over a 100 watt. Other times, though, such as the case with the Herbert, the more valves the bigger it sounds, even at practise volumes.

What are stock VH4's shipping with at the moment? I watched an interview with the American distributor before they ceased business that Diezel amps will come stock with KT77's. Is that right?

I think the amp sounds GREAT at all levels. It just OPENS up more the louder it gets.

Cheers, man. What's your name, btw? I remember you sending me a PM and saying your name - was it Dan?

 

[MARK2C]

Papa speaks about current tubes in the VH4.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68177