Vinnie Vincent First Appearance In 25 years

[napalmdeath]

$550.00 in 1983 had the same buying power as $1,360.53 in 2017. That's just over 70k a year.

Yep and throw in his credits for the co-writes and it wasn't exactly chump change. Granted I'm sure the royalties took a bit to come in. And then of course that wasn't enough for Vinnie. Plus, on the road, you aren't paying for anything other than personal items as you'd be given a Per Diem, and gear which might have cost you the year before was suddenly being handed to you. Certainly not putting Vinnie down, they probably should have paid him more but I really doubt the band financially had the money at that point. I mean Eric Carr was brought in at 80k a year when they were rolling in money. I would think had Vinnie stayed on he would have made more money as the band got better of financially.

Also keep in mind he said take home was $550 so I’m assuming that was AFTER taxes which would make it 75k plus.

Not quite..
More like anywhere between 40-50k
The Tax % was different back then.
He probably grossed 800 or so a week, took home his 550.

Figure about 800 a week X 52 weeks...gives you less than 42k annually.

Def not 75k..They fucked him big time. He should've gotten at least at a minimum, 100k a year. Those guys were robbing him.

Honestly how were they robbing him? Kiss wasn't rolling in the dough during this era. COTN didn't go gold. LIU barely made platinum. And even though it made platinum it was the first album to do so since Dynasty 5 years earlier. Not to mention they toured behind both albums to halls that were on average about 60% capacity. Plus still paying Ace Frehley as a full member. Where was the money to come from to pay VV once you take out all expenses of running a band from label, managers, press agents, video's, various staff, Frehley, touring, tour managers and crew and touring expenses etc...

Ozzy paid Jake around 30k a year and was selling twice the albums, and sold out halls at this time compared to Kiss.

Kiss has never been hurting for cash, I don't care what anybody says. Gene and Paul, were both quite wealthy at this time. Shitty album sales aside, touring was still raking in the cash, pre-Lick It Up.

 

[romanianreaper]

$550.00 in 1983 had the same buying power as $1,360.53 in 2017. That's just over 70k a year.

Yep and throw in his credits for the co-writes and it wasn't exactly chump change. Granted I'm sure the royalties took a bit to come in. And then of course that wasn't enough for Vinnie. Plus, on the road, you aren't paying for anything other than personal items as you'd be given a Per Diem, and gear which might have cost you the year before was suddenly being handed to you. Certainly not putting Vinnie down, they probably should have paid him more but I really doubt the band financially had the money at that point. I mean Eric Carr was brought in at 80k a year when they were rolling in money. I would think had Vinnie stayed on he would have made more money as the band got better of financially.

Also keep in mind he said take home was $550 so I’m assuming that was AFTER taxes which would make it 75k plus.

Not quite..
More like anywhere between 40-50k
The Tax % was different back then.
He probably grossed 800 or so a week, took home his 550.

Figure about 800 a week X 52 weeks...gives you less than 42k annually.

Def not 75k..They fucked him big time. He should've gotten at least at a minimum, 100k a year. Those guys were robbing him.

Honestly how were they robbing him? Kiss wasn't rolling in the dough during this era. COTN didn't go gold. LIU barely made platinum. And even though it made platinum it was the first album to do so since Dynasty 5 years earlier. Not to mention they toured behind both albums to halls that were on average about 60% capacity. Plus still paying Ace Frehley as a full member. Where was the money to come from to pay VV once you take out all expenses of running a band from label, managers, press agents, video's, various staff, Frehley, touring, tour managers and crew and touring expenses etc...

Ozzy paid Jake around 30k a year and was selling twice the albums, and sold out halls at this time compared to Kiss.

Vinnie wrote quite of bit a songs he gets royalties from them. A hired hand does not

Good point and I probably used the wrong phrase because he was an actual member of the band and did contribute alot to the KISS legacy. All I am saying is Vinnie did alot of this to himself because he had a bad business sense and was somewhat of a scam artist. Maybe there was someone behind him like a bad manager doing this to him but there are stories about him screwing people out of money on business deals, screwing over KISS fans with sales, etc. I truly hope he has pulled himself together and wish the guy the best. Maybe this will be a great way for him to show how talented he really was and maybe this is the best time because his head is clear again.

 

[paulyc]

Go read all the books on the subject, Kiss was, in fact, hurting for cash... big time. But Vinnie saved them and he deserved more.

 

[jabps]

$550.00 in 1983 had the same buying power as $1,360.53 in 2017. That's just over 70k a year.

Yep and throw in his credits for the co-writes and it wasn't exactly chump change. Granted I'm sure the royalties took a bit to come in. And then of course that wasn't enough for Vinnie. Plus, on the road, you aren't paying for anything other than personal items as you'd be given a Per Diem, and gear which might have cost you the year before was suddenly being handed to you. Certainly not putting Vinnie down, they probably should have paid him more but I really doubt the band financially had the money at that point. I mean Eric Carr was brought in at 80k a year when they were rolling in money. I would think had Vinnie stayed on he would have made more money as the band got better of financially.

Also keep in mind he said take home was $550 so I’m assuming that was AFTER taxes which would make it 75k plus.

Not quite..
More like anywhere between 40-50k
The Tax % was different back then.
He probably grossed 800 or so a week, took home his 550.

Figure about 800 a week X 52 weeks...gives you less than 42k annually.

Def not 75k..They fucked him big time. He should've gotten at least at a minimum, 100k a year. Those guys were robbing him.

Honestly how were they robbing him? Kiss wasn't rolling in the dough during this era. COTN didn't go gold. LIU barely made platinum. And even though it made platinum it was the first album to do so since Dynasty 5 years earlier. Not to mention they toured behind both albums to halls that were on average about 60% capacity. Plus still paying Ace Frehley as a full member. Where was the money to come from to pay VV once you take out all expenses of running a band from label, managers, press agents, video's, various staff, Frehley, touring, tour managers and crew and touring expenses etc...

Ozzy paid Jake around 30k a year and was selling twice the albums, and sold out halls at this time compared to Kiss.

Kiss has never been hurting for cash, I don't care what anybody says. Gene and Paul, were both quite wealthy at this time. Shitty album sales aside, touring was still raking in the cash, pre-Lick It Up.

Gene and Paul being wealthy is one thing. Kiss the band entity being cash rich is altogether different. Kiss the band/business was broke. And anything they were making was going right back into keeping the whole thing afloat at that point. And frankly Gene and Paul weren't rolling in the cash at that point, bad investments and overspending were taking it's toll on their own bank accounts. Both have pretty much stated in their books that times were lean. And Ace had even commented the well was drying up.

Gene and Paul get a bad rap for alot of stuff but how come nobody goes after Ozzy or Metallica? Newstead made $500 dollars a week when hired by Metallica. Who was touring behind a massive album and tour. He wasn't made a full member until over a year later. Maybe Vinnie should have stayed around a bit longer.

I would truly recommend everyone go watch the Documentary "Hired Gun". One because it's absolutely great and two because it's somewhat eye opening about just how much or how little guys can be paid. Are some vastly underpaid...of course but at the end of the day it's their choice to accept the offer or not.

 

[Bishop5150]

Vicky Vincent?

 

[ElectricVoodoo]

I can't believe no one asked about his first RR Jackson.
I would've been all over that and would've loved to hear his take. Wasn't it documented somewhere about him being one of the first people to get one after Randy??

Correct me if I'm wrong, I went through alot of the Vids and heard nothing about it.

 

[paulyc]

^ you are correct, a travesty has occurred.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

$550.00 in 1983 had the same buying power as $1,360.53 in 2017. That's just over 70k a year.

Yep and throw in his credits for the co-writes and it wasn't exactly chump change. Granted I'm sure the royalties took a bit to come in. And then of course that wasn't enough for Vinnie. Plus, on the road, you aren't paying for anything other than personal items as you'd be given a Per Diem, and gear which might have cost you the year before was suddenly being handed to you. Certainly not putting Vinnie down, they probably should have paid him more but I really doubt the band financially had the money at that point. I mean Eric Carr was brought in at 80k a year when they were rolling in money. I would think had Vinnie stayed on he would have made more money as the band got better of financially.

Also keep in mind he said take home was $550 so I’m assuming that was AFTER taxes which would make it 75k plus.

Not quite..
More like anywhere between 40-50k
The Tax % was different back then.
He probably grossed 800 or so a week, took home his 550.

Figure about 800 a week X 52 weeks...gives you less than 42k annually.

Def not 75k..They fucked him big time. He should've gotten at least at a minimum, 100k a year. Those guys were robbing him.

Honestly how were they robbing him? Kiss wasn't rolling in the dough during this era. COTN didn't go gold. LIU barely made platinum. And even though it made platinum it was the first album to do so since Dynasty 5 years earlier. Not to mention they toured behind both albums to halls that were on average about 60% capacity. Plus still paying Ace Frehley as a full member. Where was the money to come from to pay VV once you take out all expenses of running a band from label, managers, press agents, video's, various staff, Frehley, touring, tour managers and crew and touring expenses etc...

Ozzy paid Jake around 30k a year and was selling twice the albums, and sold out halls at this time compared to Kiss.

Kiss has never been hurting for cash, I don't care what anybody says. Gene and Paul, were both quite wealthy at this time. Shitty album sales aside, touring was still raking in the cash, pre-Lick It Up.

Gene and Paul being wealthy is one thing. Kiss the band entity being cash rich is altogether different. Kiss the band/business was broke. And anything they were making was going right back into keeping the whole thing afloat at that point. And frankly Gene and Paul weren't rolling in the cash at that point, bad investments and overspending were taking it's toll on their own bank accounts. Both have pretty much stated in their books that times were lean. And Ace had even commented the well was drying up.

Gene and Paul get a bad rap for alot of stuff but how come nobody goes after Ozzy or Metallica? Newstead made $500 dollars a week when hired by Metallica. Who was touring behind a massive album and tour. He wasn't made a full member until over a year later. Maybe Vinnie should have stayed around a bit longer.

I would truly recommend everyone go watch the Documentary "Hired Gun". One because it's absolutely great and two because it's somewhat eye opening about just how much or how little guys can be paid. Are some vastly underpaid...of course but at the end of the day it's their choice to accept the offer or not.

Hired Gun was pretty good. Always amazed at how desperate some people sound too. I mean Bill Joel's drummer should have told Billy to go fuck himself but instead he is still a bit of a pussy and says at the end that he will always be there for his rich prick spoiled friend Billy. Gene and Paul are pricks, no way around that but they were also better and smarter with their business and brand when they rebuilt. All in all though, it seems like an awful lot of hoopla and mystery around a guitar player. He was good, but by no means earth shattering game changer. Plenty of guys lighting it up in his time.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

PS- KISS was hardly starving in the early 80's going into the no make up era.. look at the size of this crowd:

 

[jabps]

PS- KISS was hardly starving in the early 80's going into the no make up era.. look at the size of this crowd:

That's South America. Took them forever to get their equipment back after it was held for ransom.

Even if you are not a Kiss fan the book Kiss Alive Forever: Touring History is a fantastic read. Has every single concert the band has ever played. Capacity, attendance, opening acts. Kiss fans that haven't read it would be amazed at how few people attended the Creatures tour and the Lick it Up tour. As Paul was quoted " we could have bought Pizza for everyone there" on some shows.

Another thing non Kiss fans don't know. They sued Polygram in the early 80's for breach of contract. Short story, they weren't getting paid correctly. However the contract with Polygram stipulated that Kiss was Ace, Paul and Gene. That is the reason Ace was on the cover of Creatures and why it was repeatedly stated Vinnie was just a temp replacement on that tour. By the time the lawsuit went to trial, Ace was gone , Kiss could no longer hide that fact and thus Kiss was in breach of contract. Kiss actually won the lawsuit but not for the millions they sued for. Afterwards Polygram revised their label deal at a much lower rate because of the lawsuit since Ace was no longer in the band.

Last I'll say on this. Kiss sold their publishing rights to the bulk of their catalog to Hori Music in 1989. You don't sell your publishing if your rolling in the dough.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

PS- KISS was hardly starving in the early 80's going into the no make up era.. look at the size of this crowd:

That's South America. Took them forever to get their equipment back after it was held for ransom.

Even if you are not a Kiss fan the book Kiss Alive Forever: Touring History is a fantastic read. Has every single concert the band has ever played. Capacity, attendance, opening acts. Kiss fans that haven't read it would be amazed at how few people attended the Creatures tour and the Lick it Up tour. As Paul was quoted " we could have bought Pizza for everyone there" on some shows.

Another thing non Kiss fans don't know. They sued Polygram in the early 80's for breach of contract. Short story, they weren't getting paid correctly. However the contract with Polygram stipulated that Kiss was Ace, Paul and Gene. That is the reason Ace was on the cover of Creatures and why it was repeatedly stated Vinnie was just a temp replacement on that tour. By the time the lawsuit went to trial, Ace was gone , Kiss could no longer hide that fact and thus Kiss was in breach of contract. Kiss actually won the lawsuit but not for the millions they sued for. Afterwards Polygram revised their label deal at a much lower rate because of the lawsuit since Ace was no longer in the band.

Last I'll say on this. Kiss sold their publishing rights to the bulk of their catalog to Hori Music in 1989. You don't sell your publishing if your rolling in the dough.

Great info thanks! I have to admit I am not a super die hard fan I just dig their music throughout the years. Even the cheesy ass no make up fluff like Crazy Nights

 

[paulyc]

Oh Christ, Asylum was it for me... after that forget it until Revenge (and the “return” of VV)

 

[jabps]

PS- KISS was hardly starving in the early 80's going into the no make up era.. look at the size of this crowd:

That's South America. Took them forever to get their equipment back after it was held for ransom.

Even if you are not a Kiss fan the book Kiss Alive Forever: Touring History is a fantastic read. Has every single concert the band has ever played. Capacity, attendance, opening acts. Kiss fans that haven't read it would be amazed at how few people attended the Creatures tour and the Lick it Up tour. As Paul was quoted " we could have bought Pizza for everyone there" on some shows.

Another thing non Kiss fans don't know. They sued Polygram in the early 80's for breach of contract. Short story, they weren't getting paid correctly. However the contract with Polygram stipulated that Kiss was Ace, Paul and Gene. That is the reason Ace was on the cover of Creatures and why it was repeatedly stated Vinnie was just a temp replacement on that tour. By the time the lawsuit went to trial, Ace was gone , Kiss could no longer hide that fact and thus Kiss was in breach of contract. Kiss actually won the lawsuit but not for the millions they sued for. Afterwards Polygram revised their label deal at a much lower rate because of the lawsuit since Ace was no longer in the band.

Last I'll say on this. Kiss sold their publishing rights to the bulk of their catalog to Hori Music in 1989. You don't sell your publishing if your rolling in the dough.

Great info thanks! I have to admit I am not a super die hard fan I just dig their music throughout the years. Even the cheesy ass no make up fluff like Crazy Nights

Obviously I'm a long time fan lol. I'd say based on everything I've read and heard from those that have known them through the years is that Gene and Paul had money personally, maybe not the millions they had at the end of the 70's but enough to live comfortably. And the band Kiss, pretty much existed on what album sales and touring money earned if any. Obviously by end of the 80's they were struggling or they wouldn't have had to sell their publishing. I'm sure they did that so the band's financial demands wouldn't bankrupt them personally. I think the band would have folded after Carnival of Souls had the Reunion not put that album on the shelf initially.

Now since the Reunion tour, they've absolutely rolled in the money. They bent the promoters over on the Reunion tour which was a cash printing machine. Thing is...believe it or not most promoters around the nation didn't think anyone cared about a Reunion. So the promoters wouldn't agree to the large show guarantee's the band wanted. So the band and the promoters agreed to a 90/10 split. If Kiss sold 90% of the house they got 90% of the profits, if not the promoter got 90%. Losing party got 10%. Kiss raked them over the coals as 99.9% of the shows sold out. At the least they did 95% business each night. They walked away with millions up millions after that tour. True story. I worked with one of the largest promoters in the country at that time and they literally thought no one cared because they had based demand on their experiences with many of the non-makeup tours. After all, the Revenge tour was cut short do to slow sales. I still laugh when I think back about the "booker" for that company asking me if I thought the Reunion tour would be a big deal. Lol.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

Good insight. I work in the field and I never see our talent buyers do a 90/10 split, usually a gaurantee cuz of budget. I see splits in soft merch, but that’s it.

 

[romanianreaper]

After the band got back together, I lost my mind and started buying a ton of KISS stuff. I'd get KISS stuff for my birthday, etc. from everyone from my grandmother to friends, etc. I have a KISS pool stick, a lighter, phone, etc., etc. I haven't gone as crazy as others and bought everything in sight but I have a lot of crap. LOL! KISS was the first heavy band I got into as a kid in the 70s and as I moved around as a military brat and then in the service myself, I could always count on a new KISS album coming out at key points in my life. I can almost remember everywhere I've been based on which album came out during that time.

 

[jabps]

Good insight. I work in the field and I never see our talent buyers do a 90/10 split, usually a gaurantee cuz of budget. I see splits in soft merch, but that’s it.

Yeah, it's kinda unheard of but for whatever reason the promoters wouldn't agree to their show guarantee demands. To them Gene was taking a massive chance on the split. Some of them even laughed at Gene because he would leave his little black book behind after the meetings with dollar figures, in hopes they would read it, rethink they're position. An old business ploy. Promoters didn't bite. People may not like him but he ain't stupid. There's a reason he's worth 300 Mill now. The company I worked with is now part of Live Nation. The "booker" at that time asked me and another Kiss fan what we thought...would the tour sell? We were like, oh yeah. I remember them monitoring the sale of the first show in Detroit, when it sold out in 30 mins, jaws were on the floor. I honestly doubt any of the big promoters that were around back then wouldn't even admit they did that now.