SpiderWars
Well-known member
Well my purchased shows are getting shwacked like last year
Tone Monster
Well-known member
I’m totally for the vaccines but I’m also against the shut downs.
romanianreaper
Well-known member
I kind of sit in the middle on the issues. My fiancée is a nurse and I am retired military and work with the government. I don't really agree with situations where people are forced to do things but see advantages of masks, distancing, etc. to slow things down.
My friend buried his wife yesterday. She got COV-19 a few weeks ago and did thr vent, then gone. I think most healthy people will be ok but it is the immune compromised that I worry about.
I had COV-19 last year and almost ended up in the ER. I was starting to have breathing issues and it sucked. I was sick for about two weeks. I really don't want to do that again, lol.
Back to the show thing though. It sucks that we are missing some great lineups, etc
My friend buried his wife yesterday. She got COV-19 a few weeks ago and did thr vent, then gone. I think most healthy people will be ok but it is the immune compromised that I worry about.
I had COV-19 last year and almost ended up in the ER. I was starting to have breathing issues and it sucked. I was sick for about two weeks. I really don't want to do that again, lol.
Back to the show thing though. It sucks that we are missing some great lineups, etc
Smash
Hack
Yes it does suck. Sorry if I derailed the thread. I am sorry for your loss.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
LI kind of sit in the middle on the issues. My fiancée is a nurse and I am retired military and work with the government. I don't really agree with situations where people are forced to do things but see advantages of masks, distancing, etc. to slow things down.
See and that’s ok to sit in the middle on the things. God forbid you see more than one side of things. I have been in healthcare for 15 years and also teach it at the college level: it’s ok to think alittle bit and not just blindly go with what the masses are doing always.
I have no problem with the vaccine as a whole: if you want to get it, great. If you don’t, that’s YOUR choice, as it should be. I start getting sideways at the idea of mandates, and people being forced to do it, especially to keep their job. That is what I personally have a problem with. Oh, and self righteous ass clowns who pretend to care about everyone else as a reason for getting the vaccine and the pearl clutching that goes along with those types, that too.
people like options: people in my line of work hate something forced down their throat ad nauseum, we are all skeptics in this field, it’s just the way it is. Our governor pushing TREATMENTS instead of blanket “ get vaccinated or die” type policy and propaganda is going to really help I think and I hope, with options like regeneron etc. people want and deserve options for how to handle this, that they feel is the best way for them. And THATS the way it should be, options.
See and that’s ok to sit in the middle on the things. God forbid you see more than one side of things. I have been in healthcare for 15 years and also teach it at the college level: it’s ok to think alittle bit and not just blindly go with what the masses are doing always.
I have no problem with the vaccine as a whole: if you want to get it, great. If you don’t, that’s YOUR choice, as it should be. I start getting sideways at the idea of mandates, and people being forced to do it, especially to keep their job. That is what I personally have a problem with. Oh, and self righteous ass clowns who pretend to care about everyone else as a reason for getting the vaccine and the pearl clutching that goes along with those types, that too.
people like options: people in my line of work hate something forced down their throat ad nauseum, we are all skeptics in this field, it’s just the way it is. Our governor pushing TREATMENTS instead of blanket “ get vaccinated or die” type policy and propaganda is going to really help I think and I hope, with options like regeneron etc. people want and deserve options for how to handle this, that they feel is the best way for them. And THATS the way it should be, options.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
Wow, over 600,000 dead in the States, as many, if not more with long term complications after gaining their “natural immunity” and people still want to bring up the flu and seem credible in any sense. Getting life back to normal is not about taming the fear, it’s abut taming the willful ignorance based on conspiracy paranoia and partisanship.
yea, definitely. Let’s get back to comparing covid go polio, because that makes WAYYYYYYYY more sense!!!!!!
yea, definitely. Let’s get back to comparing covid go polio, because that makes WAYYYYYYYY more sense!!!!!!
Rick Lee
Well-known member
Firstly, we need to back out two seasons worth of flu deaths (60-80k?) from the Covid numbers, since no one dies of the flu anymore. Covid eradicated it. Amazing, isn't it? And then we need to back out the six figures worth of deaths counted as Covid, but only because of the methodology. In AZ, for example, ANY DEATH within 60 days of a positive Covid test and with no subsequent negative test, is counted as a Covid death. Yes, you can get hit by a bus on the way home from testing positive and your death will 100% be counted as a Covid death. Are you a 500 lbs, chain smoking, insulin diabetic? (Yes, I run into these folks in my work.) Test positive for Covid and your death will count as a Covid death. Never mind the insane and largely self-inflicted co-morbidities. If there is any way it can possibly be added to the Covid numbers, it will be.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
Covid is so overblown you guys. It's only the 3rd leading cause of death in the US right now after having come out of nowhere.
"But I don't like being told what to doooooo, I want options!" Right. I forgot that I'm talking to a literal toddler who won't do something unless he feels like it's his own idea due to his own sense of pride. You know that's a sin according to your own religion, right?
"I'm tired of people faking empathy and saying other people should get it for their own sake." People aren't faking it. Just because you personally are infinitely selfish and incapable of thinking of others doesn't mean everybody else is as soulless as you. I'm sorry you had to find out this way.
VESmedic has even agreed with people in this thread who have made the case, in this thread, that the people who take the vaccine fare much better than those who don't. The vaccine isn't a black and white, 100% cure all. All it does is help. You can still get covid but the vaccines make it way less severe.
Also, of course your job should be able to fire you if you refuse to get it. In case you've forgotten, your political party, the conservative party, is the party of business and financial freedom. Your own beliefs are that business should be free from regulation to do what it wants. Unless... unless what you actually think is that business should be able to do what it wants... unless it's something that negatively impacts you personally. But a conservative could never be a hypocrite, so that couldn't possibly be what you think, right?
Also the FDA has approved the vaccine now so this discussion should be a lot shorter, but as usual the anti-vax, anti-science people move the goalposts and start questioning the FDA's creditbility, even though they were perfectly fine with the FDA's authority and credibility when they could point out that the vaccine hadn't been "FDA approved" before it was.
I also don't think you're arguing in good faith about Polio either. Yes it was more deadly, but are you seriously saying that if it came around today, we wouldn't hear the exact same anti-science, anti-vax nonsense about how it's "not that bad" and that "most people don't even die from it" and that "we shouldn't have to live in fear of it" or that a polio vaccine is just "a way for the government to get control" or whatever? Because if you seriously believe those people wouldn't say the exact same nonsense, then man I have some great beachfront property in Arizona I'd love to sell you.
Last edited:
romanianreaper
Well-known member
I'm no expert on any of this stuff and not taking any type of side but I've never heard personally of anyone I know dying from the flu. I've known several people that have died from COV-19 and I've never been sick with the flu like I was with COV-19. Just seems like this is more significant than the flu but I'm not an expert or even close.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
Covid is so overblown you guys. It's only the 3rd leading cause of death in the US right now after having come out of nowhere.
"But I don't like being told what to doooooo, I want options!" Right. I forgot that I'm talking to a literal toddler who won't do something unless he feels like it's his own idea due to his own sense of pride. You know that's a sin according to your own religion, right?
"I'm tired of people faking empathy and saying other people should get it for their own sake." People aren't faking it. Just because you personally are infinitely selfish and incapable of thinking of others doesn't mean everybody else is as soulless as you. I'm sorry you had to find out this way.
VESmedic has even agreed with people in this thread who have made the case, in this thread, that the people who take the vaccine fare much better than those who don't. The vaccine isn't a black and white, 100% cure all. All it does is help. You can still get covid but the vaccines make it way less severe.
Also, of course your job should be able to fire you if you refuse to get it. In case you've forgotten, your political party, the conservative party, is the party of business and financial freedom. Your own beliefs are that business should be free from regulation to do what it wants. Unless... unless what you actually think is that business should be able to do what it wants... unless it's something that negatively impacts you personally. But a conservative could never be a hypocrite, so that couldn't possibly be what you think, right?
Also the FDA has approved the vaccine now so this discussion should be a lot shorter, but as usual the anti-vax, anti-science people move the goalposts and start questioning the FDA's creditbility, even though they were perfectly fine with the FDA's authority and credibility when they could point out that the vaccine hadn't been "FDA approved" before it was.
I also don't think you're arguing in good faith about Polio either. Yes it was more deadly, but are you seriously saying that if it came around today, we wouldn't hear the exact same anti-science, anti-vax nonsense about how it's "not that bad" and that "most people don't even die from it" and that "we shouldn't have to live in fear of it" or that a polio vaccine is just "a way for the government to get control" or whatever? Because if you seriously believe those people wouldn't say the exact same nonsense, then man I have some great beachfront property in Arizona I'd love to sell you.
Well, since you’ve chosen to take this off the deep end and get political and self righteous, here’s alittle news article from “your” political party.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...lth/fda-approval-drug-events-study/index.html
I’m not anti vax, or anti science, yet here I am arguing with guitarists who barely passed high school I’m sure, and couldn’t even spell the classes I took in college for a degree IN SCIENCE. I’m also not anti FDA, however using them as a pawn to prove your point has proven ridiculous many, many times over the years. And you think religious people have blind faith….
Also, that’s gotta be the worst meme of all time: because statistically, all of those graves in those pictures would almost all predominantly be 70+ old people who didn’t have access to the vaccine, or co morbidities etc that proved to weaken them much more than a typical 70+ year old etc.
you think people should be able to fire you because of your health status? Did you really just say that? Imagine if we did that in the 80s with AIDS when we knew NOTHING about it… how would YOU look with that viewpoint today? You believe in segregation with a different twist, way to go. Why stop at covid? Why have we never done that in the hospitals with the flu? After all, more people have died from the flu ( and actually died from it, I’ll say again) in my career by FAR than Covid. So why not fire those who don’t get the flu vaccine that may or may not work? WhT else would you like to see people fired for?
Spaceboy
Well-known member
Oh, he took classes IN SCIENCE. Argument over!
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
people DEFINITELY Die from the flu every year, I can assure you of that. It’s just not a cultural phenomenon like this shitshow is, and we’ve come to accept it because it’s become normal. Thats just what humans do.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
Go ahead and prove me wrong then homie, I’ve yet to see one person on this board who actually works in health care and who has dealt with and treated patients with covid every day in a large metropolitan area for the last year and a half…. Have you?
romanianreaper
Well-known member
I respect your opinion about this stuff, especially with what you do and your job. I know you guys definitely know more than most of us do. I would tell you though that this is something in some ways that we have never dealt with before. That is why I don't pick a side because I think people need to get vaccinated but I'm not a fan of mandating things. When I was in the military, we signed up for that. I'm not sure how I feel about every citizen having to do this.
I would caution you about stereotyping guitarists here on the forum as barely passing high school, etc. I think you would be surprised if you knew what a lot of us do.
G
Geo
Well-known member
Oh you believe in science? Which scientific studies in particular did you find insightful?
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
I think you and I are really on the same page here, I agree with vaccination 100 percent as well. And I am 100 percent against mandates as well. And yes 100 percent agree with the military having no choice, you are property of the US government at that point, and that higher calling comes with certain stipulations you can’t do anything about. I hate it, but at the same time I respect it and fully understand why it has to be that way.
And you’re right, the stereotypical jabs are not needed, but it just gets so unbelievably annoying when every facet of your life is related to this pandemic, and to sit here and listen to people regurgitate bullshit from their high horse that they got from some news network affiliated with their political ideology. Science has become politicized as we all know, and this is more dangerous than any virus in my opinion. People are allowed to have different viewpoints, and people are ALLOWED to question things. If we accepted every “experts” opinion as fact over the last 100 years and nothing was challenged, where would we be? The medical community is much more split on this than CNN or Fox News or whatever, would have you believe, trust me. Yes most physicians are vaccinated, so are lots of nurses. But there are still LOTS on the other side of the aisle, who aren’t just drinking whatever kool aid they are expected to drink, and come with sound medical and scientific evidence to back up their claims. We should listen to everyone. We should listen to everyone, and loose the self righteous morally superior bullshit side of this, immediately. If for no other reason other than for what you said, we have never dealt with this before. I am sure about one thing, if we continue down THAT path of berating other peoples opinions from a place of moral superiority, we ARE doomed.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
You don't know anything about me, or my degree, or my post-degree education, or the STEM field in which I'm currently employed.
Also, I did not say business should be able to fire someone because of their "health" status. I'm not saying businesses should be able to fire people if they have seasonal allergies. They should be able enforce the status of being "vaccined against a contagious disease if working around other people" though. Besides, ever attended school? Ever been to a foreign country? If so then you've already been faced with vaccine mandates. This is nothing new.
Besides, a business has every right to protect its employees in that way, and if someone decides to be so selfish that they won't take an FDA-approved vaccine because "I don't know that it's 100% the best thing for me personally" but will happily endanger other people by being around them, potentially exposing them to covid and potentially killing them, then a business has the right to stop that person from being the most selfish piece of shit imaginable. Even then, you're not being "forced" to take any vaccine though. You are being given the choice of "take the vaccine" or "look for another job."
The government isn't making the vaccine mandatory though. You're perfectly free not to take it. Just don't go around infecting other people. And if you don't take the vaccine and do get sick, please do us all a favor and don't go to the hospital, taking a bed from somebody who actually might have gotten the vaccine or wound up there for some other reason that wasn't out of their own selfish stupidity.
Nobody is excited about putting chemicals in their body. Nobody is excited about wearing masks. However if enough people do it and accept the small inconveniences for now, maybe we can all get out of this sooner and things can go back to normal. Or we can continue to have some people say "weeeelll I don't know" and just keep going round and round with this and whatever other new super-diseases will pop up in the future forever.
Last edited:
Spaceboy
Well-known member
No, but I am a data analyst for the CDC.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
“ I’m not saying that”…..
Yea… yes you did. You just called it something different. You are in favor of people getting fired because of their health status, it’s as simple as that. Call it what you want, it IS what you are saying. You’re right, schools do it, foreign country travel etc. been there, done that. But since you are using a stupid example of seasonal allergies, I’ll play your game: being vaccinated for polio or pertussis in children isn’t the same thing as a virus that has an extremely low death rate for those who catch it under 50 years old.
so because, you go to work unvaccinated, you may kill someone? Really? That’s your angle on this? Do pilots stop flying because the plane “may” crash? Do bus drivers stop driving because they “may” crash the bus? Better look at statistics on that one, because I’ll bet my last dollar that the bus driver is more likely to kill someone on a bus on the way to work, than you dying from covid.
So where do you draw the line mr, “im
Not saying”??? It’s not allergies, but where is it? The flu? The common cold? RSV? Pseudomonas? Strept? All of these things can, and do kill people every year, streptococcus related deaths being much higher than you think. Did that stop you from going to work next to someone?
no one told black people they can’t use the water fountain either, just had to use a different one….sound extreme? It isn’t… you are saying the exact same thing, and I don’t understand how you can not see that. Your right, people shouldn’t be fired, you just aren’t welcome here anymore and can’t work here… but no, we aren’t “mandating” anything… pathetic.
Also: the hospital is FILLED TO THE BRIM DAILY with people who have SELF INFLICTED INJURIES/MEDICAL ISSUES ( driving drunk, doing something stupid, doing a stunt, operating heavy machinery intoxicated, drug overdoses, firework injuries, SMOKING, etc), should they be turned away too? That’s literally why my job exists, and the hospitals are mostly filled with these type of issues: very rarely ( it happens) do people go to the hospital for something that they themselves had no part in inflicting on themselves in some way shape or form. Sure, certain cancers, getting hit by a drunk driver etc are all people who had no control over them going to the hospital, but a MASSIVE amount of people are in hospitals because of something they themselves DID or had a part in… so I ask you again, should those people not go to the hospital too? You are 100 percent completely out of touch here, you aren’t going to win this one.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
Also, in case you aren’t aware… you can spread covid vaccinated or not, where have you been?