What's with Covers and Chasing After Other Musician's Tones?

[CarlF]

I always felt that, after playing guitar for so many years, a person should have their own style by then, and develop that. It’s a lot more constructive than copying other people.
I mean, the goal is to have your own voice on the guitar. Not to be a parrot of somebody else or somebody else’s tone.

 

[simonfrewler]

Some do it almost as a puzzle.

It's no big deal.

One can have their own style and "original" material, and research how others made their sounds.

I think it's fun. Once you have been playing for awhile, it can be a bit boring ...

It can also help one understand the mind of an artist, which has its own appeal.

 

[SpiderWars]

I always felt that, after playing guitar for so many years, a person should have their own style by then, and develop that. It’s a lot more constructive than copying other people.
I mean, the goal is to have your own voice on the guitar. Not to be a parrot of somebody else or somebody else’s tone.

This is a great point and even then, some will say that to develop that style they copied others note-for-note while others that never did that.

 

[Chase42147]

I play mostly covers, I'm working on songwriting but at this point writing cool stuff doesn't come easily to me. Hoping it's something that comes with practice

 

[rsm]

I usually warm up with covers, or ideas in my head. I have dozens of guitar sounds and gear including guitar synth, so the sound(s) I'm using often determines what I play.

I have a drum VST I've owned for well over 10+ years, MicroTonic from Sonic Charge. https://soniccharge.com/microtonic

You can program the sound of each drum, and different parts, chain parts together, how many times they repeat, and the order of the parts...basically an entire song of drum parts; they have an online website of drum sounds and patterns that use an AI model based on evolution and feedback (voting thumbs up / down) which you can download and use as starting points.

https://soniccharge.com/patternarium

I'm drum challenged, so this is an endless source of inspiration. I'll play bass, guitar or keyboards to these microtonic drum patterns/sounds/songs as-is, or tweak and arrange.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

I play mostly covers, I'm working on songwriting but at this point writing cool stuff doesn't come easily to me. Hoping it's something that comes with practice

Not sure if practice is necessarily a trigger for creativity, though can def help open new understanding and capabilities.
People watching, imagine their theme song.
Television with no volume or closed captions.
Trees moving to the wind.
Maybe not for everyone, but simple things like that can often get me out of writer's block.

 

[SpiderWars]

Maybe not for everyone, but simple things like that can often get me out of writer's block

I saw a comment in a Snarky Puppy video where Michael League said he’s gotten some great ideas from hearing music in, say a mall or something, where you can’t really hear it that well and you don’t know where the ‘1’ is. So you’re hearing a chord progression/riff but totally out of time and it sounds cool af.

 

[CarlF]

This is a great point and even then, some will say that to develop that style they copied others note-for-note while others that never did that.

Everybody copies in the beginning. At some point, you develop your own style, even by default. unless, like some people, go into being grown adults and are nothing more than a parrot.
Even with all the Hendrix/ Trower I absorbed over decades, I don't sound like them.

 

[SoooRad]

It's not that I'm trying to say that covers are bad or that originals are noble, I just see everything having moved over to covers from Youtube to a large majority of local gig musicians. When I was gigging, you had 99%+ original bands (who may also do a cover or two. Totally guilty, but still our own take) and some cover bands that were more of a novelty for weddings and tourism. Now, it feels opposite and everyone seems to be covering or chasing someone else. That may not even be true, it's just my personal experience.

I am also mostly deaf and without huge advancements in augmentations will be fully deaf within a few years at most. So, I probably seek out original music to enjoy instead of hitting the replay button more often than perhaps the average person. Maybe because of that I can appreciate it a bit more, good or bad. I'm not trying to talk it down, it's just that I can play it in my head, so I prefer those new emotional changes, even if predictable. It's also a bit sad to me that creativity seems to be taking the back burner. Sorry for the rant.

Sorry to hear (ha) about the hearing! That blows, and is definitely a fear for anyone, let alone a musician!

I think a big part of that first paragraph ties in nicely with how disposable broader society views art. Be it music, visual, tv/movies, etc. The attention span is so limited that they don't want to have to "learn" anything new. The average listener just wants background noise, or to be able to sing along with stuff from when they thought their life was better.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

Sorry to hear (ha) about the hearing! That blows, and is definitely a fear for anyone, let alone a musician!

I think a big part of that first paragraph ties in nicely with how disposable broader society views art. Be it music, visual, tv/movies, etc. The attention span is so limited that they don't want to have to "learn" anything new. The average listener just wants background noise, or to be able to sing along with stuff from when they thought their life was better.

TY! It's okay as long as I still have my wine and classical instruments where I can feel the sustain and resonance. In the mean time, I'm trying to experience as much music and gear as possible before the inevitable purge. I def agree, there are definitely songs that do that to all of us. Without them we may not have been inspired in the first place. I just can't for the life of me understand being stuck on them instead of using the inspiration aspects to craft your own path, is all.

 

[boogieman1187]

I started leaning to play when I was 12 and all I ever cared about was learning other peoples songs cuz it was just a hobby of mine, luckily I live in Delaware where the only bands that mean shit are cover bands so I guess it kinda worked out, I've played a lot of big clubs over the years and made some real good money doing it, so there's no regrets on my end. Although the tone chasing thing I never got, I've owned or at least played almost every known amp that's accessible and I always seem to sound like me through every one of them so I never really went down that rabbit hole. I guess everyone is different in their goals but most importantly-just keep playing.

 

[WizardAmpIphoneClip]

Amatuer tips
-Guitar should only be about fun
-If youre young, write originals only before the work/school/females-grind of life
-If you get a chance to really do something ie, record an album or go across the world and tour thats worth the experience
-The music biz is absolutely unfair and it sucks ass

 

[RaceU4her]

I don’t think I know one full song that isn’t mine, I just never been interested in covering other peoples stuff ever since I got half decent on guitar. I do record cover clips sometimes I post here, but that’s usually just to test a new piece of gear or recording technique when I’m too lazy or just can’t play the drum parts and there’s a good drum track available.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Because most of the best music has already been written and the best tones have already been recorded. Nobody is going to beat those with a toneprint modeler. Second, when you love an artist's playing so much, having some of their gear or similar and playing their tunes is just way more fun on gear that is as close as you can get to the original tones. Do you want to play Flying High again through a modeler or a cranked plexi with a pedal pushing it into hiss territory? It is just inspiring. Now playing your own stuff, find something that works but if that's a plexi, a pedal, and some altecs, so be it.

 

[braintheory]

Interesting take, but I certainly didn’t talk about crafting solos. IMO those should be improvised.
I was referring to composition, and early Morse stuff like Twiggs Approved, Introduction, etc…Spring to mind.

As for “better” technicians, all the guys you mention (leaving Moore out are Rock or Fusion guys) and they certainly don’t have the range like Morse.

I mean when everything is said and done no one touches Benson or Django in their prime in terms of playing.
Even if 12 year old girls can do it now.
Doing it and coming up with it….ill take the guys that thought of it first.

Or in general when it comes to technique there’s Yamashita and then DeLucia and then the conversation is pretty much done. But doesn’t have jack to do with composition.

I think solos should tell a good coherent musical story from beginning to end. It doesn’t matter if it’s improvised or not so long as it satisfies that well. The problem with improvisation is it typically has a few brief great spontaneous moments, but then the other 90% percent of the solo lacks quality/memorability. It’s sorta like showing us an initial draft that isn’t at all there and tied together. Randy Rhoads from what I understand had revisions and probably why his solos are often higher quality in delivering that coherent story. Way too many solos are the musical afterthoughts of the song. I’d have to hear examples of what you mentioned by Morse but am very skeptical honestly

Some of those guys have more range too actually, but it’s not about that. I never heard anything by Morse where I’m like “wow what technique or coordination he has” or “how does he do that”. I don’t care who does it first either. I care who does it at the highest level. Are cars from a 100 years ago better performing because they came out first? No. Is McEnroe better than Djokovic because he came before? Not even close. Is a flip phone better than a current iPhone because it came out first too?

This last part I can talk about with the most confidence since classical guitar is my main area with some flamenco training too. Yamashita is one of my favorite players and one of the players I was most inspired by growing up. Him and DeLucia are geniuses and respect how much fire/passion Yamashita has in musicality as well as his crazy transcriptions, amazing timeless contributions to our instrument, however by today’s standards, I’m sorry him and DeLucia would be considered very sloppy and Yamashita also had horrible tone. He’d be an amateur by today’s standards. Classical guitar has come such a long way since then. I can send you so many links of recent players that would wipe the floor with him at least technically and in some ways even musically too

While I’m still a nobody and not great by current standards either, I’d at least be considered better than Yamashita as I regularly get to semi finals in competitions, but I don’t mean that as anything to put myself up, so much to say that being better than the best classical players over 30 years ago isn’t anything special. There was a lot about the mechanics in playing the instrument they didn’t get back then that we know now much better in our training

 

[legend71]

It's not that I'm trying to say that covers are bad or that originals are noble, I just see everything having moved over to covers from Youtube to a large majority of local gig musicians. When I was gigging, you had 99%+ original bands (who may also do a cover or two. Totally guilty, but still our own take) and some cover bands that were more of a novelty for weddings and tourism. Now, it feels opposite and everyone seems to be covering or chasing someone else. That may not even be true, it's just my personal experience.

I am also mostly deaf and without huge advancements in augmentations will be fully deaf within a few years at most. So, I probably seek out original music to enjoy instead of hitting the replay button more often than perhaps the average person. Maybe because of that I can appreciate it a bit more, good or bad. I'm not trying to talk it down, it's just that I can play it in my head, so I prefer those new emotional changes, even if predictable. It's also a bit sad to me that creativity seems to be taking the back burner. Sorry for the rant.

I understand that. No need to be sorry. I was just making a general comment (not directed at you) towards music makers in general. Like many of us, I am merely a hobbyist and not a serious professional musician.

 

[* velcro-fly *]

I’m gonna sound like me no matter what I play through and the only tone chase is good guitar sounds. Found what works for me and I’ll stick with that.

Had an originals project that was turning into a pain in the ass to launch and got sidetracked by an opportunity to join a busy working cover band. Haven’t looked back, still play my own original music to entertain myself, but the cover band(s) are income generators, no freebies ever. I’m still having fun playing gigs and it beats the shit out of any other second job I would likely need right now. Once you get bit by it there’s no real turning back.

 

[Chase42147]

Not sure if practice is necessarily a trigger for creativity, though can def help open new understanding and capabilities.
People watching, imagine their theme song.
Television with no volume or closed captions.
Trees moving to the wind.
Maybe not for everyone, but simple things like that can often get me out of writer's block.

Yeah, maybe not. At the very least it'll get my chops up to the point where they're not one of the limiting factors anymore

Those are some good ideas, I'll try that!

 

[stratjacket]

Now playing your own stuff….

Hey I think @NowYou'rePlayingWithPower may have a new handle or a burner

I play mostly my own stuff. I will sometimes play covers for fun. Every now and then I like to try to learn a new song that I like and is fun to play. But 95% of the time it’s my own crap.

It’s good to take ideas and techniques from cover songs. I’ve heard riffs that inspired me to think it would sound cool to expand on it and take it a different direction.

I just never really think about this, it’s always just how I feel a particular day.

 

[degenaro]

I think solos should tell a good coherent musical story from beginning to end. It doesn’t matter if it’s improvised or not so long as it satisfies that well. The problem with improvisation is it typically has a few brief great spontaneous moments, but then the other 90% percent of the solo lacks quality/memorability. It’s sorta like showing us an initial draft that isn’t at all there and tied together. Randy Rhoads from what I understand had revisions and probably why his solos are often higher quality in delivering that coherent story. Way too many solos are the musical afterthoughts of the song. I’d have to hear examples of what you mentioned by Morse but am very skeptical honestly

Some of those guys have more range too actually, but it’s not about that. I never heard anything by Morse where I’m like “wow what technique or coordination he has” or “how does he do that”. I don’t care who does it first either. I care who does it at the highest level. Are cars from a 100 years ago better performing because they came out first? No. Is McEnroe better than Djokovic because he came before? Not even close. Is a flip phone better than a current iPhone because it came out first too?

This last part I can talk about with the most confidence since classical guitar is my main area with some flamenco training too. Yamashita is one of my favorite players and one of the players I was most inspired by growing up. Him and DeLucia are geniuses and respect how much fire/passion Yamashita has in musicality as well as his crazy transcriptions, amazing timeless contributions to our instrument, however by today’s standards, I’m sorry him and DeLucia would be considered very sloppy and Yamashita also had horrible tone. He’d be an amateur by today’s standards. Classical guitar has come such a long way since then. I can send you so many links of recent players that would wipe the floor with him at least technically and in some ways even musically too

While I’m still a nobody and not great by current standards either, I’d at least be considered better than Yamashita as I regularly get to semi finals in competitions, but I don’t mean that as anything to put myself up, so much to say that being better than the best classical players over 30 years ago isn’t anything special. There was a lot about the mechanics in playing the instrument they didn’t get back then that we know now much better in our training

I’m at a loss how you think of Rhoads as the measurement of amazing and then Yamashita not being good enough.

By your logic just about any current burner will outdo Rhoads.

But hey, I’d love to listen to some links of your competition performances that shows you owning Yamashita.