What's with Covers and Chasing After Other Musician's Tones?

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

Shit Stir Architect..

Wasn't my intention.
I have nothing against covers.
Of course people are going to learn them and play them.
It's when it's the only thing people do and it appears that it's the only thing most people do, anymore.

 

[degenaro]

Comparing Rhoads to Yamashita is totally apples vs oranges as classical guitar is such a different instrument. Both those players were actually probably the 2 I was most inspired by as a teenager when I was new to the guitar. Make no mistake, I have massive respect for both guys and think they’re both geniuses. Rhoads’s genius was his creative ability in writing great music. Yamashita had the musical/expressive fire/passion and insane transcriptions he had. Both were amazing players for their time, but today we have many far superior players purely in technique and overall coordination, especially classical where I really know what I’m talking about

Linked below here are some examples you can listen to of some of the best players today. If you’re curious I can also pm you some of my clips, but prefer to stay more anonymous on here. You’ll see the level of accuracy, coordinate and cleanliness of the players below was something not remotely in the cards for Yamashita’s hands. He was sloppy by today’s standards. The last link of these on Instagram is my teacher











https://www.instagram.com/p/BV6Sd0GARyF/?igsh=MXJmaDM2NTRkc3Zs

First of thanks for hipping me into some players I want aware of.

And yes I’d very much would like for you to send me some of your links in pm.

Back to the subject, all amazing technicians you showed but none with the fire of Yamashita.
Yes by comparison he is sloppy.
But for me I can let that go. Heck I like Jimmy Page because of it.

As for his sound? I love what he does, unlike all the guys here he varies his tone between passages a lot more.

As for the idea that improvisation yields only a few kernels of greatness the rest is basically searching….

https://youtu.be/dkwvXK7bJqc?si=OVO80-4XIZz4O3lF

https://youtu.be/dkwvXK7bJqc?si=OVO80-4XIZz4O3lF

 

[braintheory]

First of thanks for hipping me into some players I want aware of.

And yes I’d very much would like for you to send me some of your links in pm.

Back to the subject, all amazing technicians you showed but none with the fire of Yamashita.
Yes by comparison he is sloppy.
But for me I can let that go. Heck I like Jimmy Page because of it.

As for his sound? I love what he does, unlike all the guys here he varies his tone between passages a lot more.

As for the idea that improvisation yields only a few kernels of greatness the rest is basically searching….

No problem, I'm always happy to share. I hope also you saw the last instagram vid of my teacher. He's pretty incredible

I'll send you them later. I also btw just got into the semi-finals of a competition in Florida happening in a few weeks. I'm nowhere near those guy's level I showed you, not even close (they're some of the best in the world), but I'm working on my improvements to do what I can

I agree, in terms of fire and musicality Yamashita smokes them, he's always been one of my favorites in that regard, no doubt about it. None of those guys I showed you are players I like at all musically/emotionally at all, which is also exactly the point I've been trying to make this whole time. Some players have amazing technique, some have amazing feeling, I haven't heard anyone yet who's 10/10 at both. I'd love to hear it and that's exactly the type of player I aspire to be, but like anyone else have my share of strengths and weaknesses in my playing and right now I'm decent at best by today's standards. Ultimately I also want to hear the player with the most fire and feeling, but that wasn't the point of this discussion. I like Jimmy Page a lot too

Yamashita is known for a much wider range of tone color like Bream. This is true and I love that about him, but there are other players outside the guys I showed that also are also quite good there. Yamashita is one of the best in color range, but his default tone is generally imo clacky/naily/rough, by classical standards rarely beautiful or refined in tone. He's often used as an example of a player with not as good tone. There are also other players I love with amazing musicality besides Yamashita btw. My personal favorite is Marcin Dylla. The videos don't do him justice, but in person his sense of touch and how he shapes his phrases is really something else

I'll give those vids a listen. Thanks for sending them. I think you sent the same one twice?

 

[Thumbpicker]

Well, historically that would be me. So, by all means please enlighten.

So you played other people's music aka covers.

And your point?

Composition (writing your own music) is just one skill of many in terms of potential skills a musician may possess. So basically it does not make you better or worse than other musicians if you write your own music just different. I could write music if wanted to but I don't enjoy doing it and don't find it rewarding therefore I don't.

Who said that?


You really went out of your way to be offended and couldn't be bothered to read the very first sentence of the OP?

Well you called it a downfall which is negative...

Also re: the first sentence... Saying you don't mean it as an insult and then delivering negativity doesn't negate the insult... For example, I could say something like "I don't mean this as an insult but you have a f'n enormous nose/arse etc lady..." Would you still be insulted if I said that despite prefacing with I don't mean it as an insult? I reckon you would

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

So you played other people's music aka covers.


Composition (writing your own music) is just one skill of many in terms of potential skills a musician may possess. So basically it does not make you better or worse than other musicians if you write your own music just different. I could write music if wanted to but I don't enjoy doing it and don't find it rewarding therefore I don't.


Well you called it a downfall which is negative...

Also re: the first sentence... Saying you don't mean it as an insult and then delivering negativity doesn't negate the insult... For example, I could say something like "I don't mean this as an insult but you have a f'n enormous nose/arse etc lady..." Would you still be insulted if I said that despite prefacing with I don't mean it as an insult? I reckon you would

The last time I played note for note covers was in middle school, and that includes orchestra. Playing an original composition that you were involved in the creation of is hardly the same thing as playing November Rain or Stairway over and over again on youtube. It's obvious that you missed the point or are simply trying to look for slights where there aren't. The world has mostly moved on from fake outrage, maybe try joining in instead of trying to nitpick and take offense as if things were directed specifically to you. You do that a lot for some reason. It's okay to put your ego aside ya know and stop trying to twist other's words to make it as if you're somehow clever enough to get away with it.

My post wasn't an insult and just because you feel like it was doesn't make it so. I was attempting to highlight that playing covers isn't bad, it's that playing only covers makes no sense to me when a person gets to a level of musician. What was the purpose? It doesn't matter if they enjoy it (which is completely fine), they aren't evolving it (which is completely true). I don't take offense to strangers enough to care what they think. In fact, I am often referred to as a pawg, so you're probably not far off on the ass part. Though not enormous, butt medium/medium light from what I'm told.

So, since you claim to only play covers, why? Why did you spend so much time learning something only to not craft with it? Why does that make you happy and why do you think the world cares?

 

[Thumbpicker]

So, since you claim to only play covers, why? Why did you spend so much time learning something only to not craft with it? Why does that make you happy and why do you think the world cares?

I don't think the world cares. Which is one of the reasons I can't be arsed writing original music. I learn various "pieces" like a classical pianist learns "pieces"... For the challenge of learning them, saying "I can play that"... recording it for posterity... It's a bit like doing a jigsaw puzzle and you get to keep the completed puzzle at the end. However I'll often listen to many different versions of the same "standard" if you want to put it that way and cherry pick the best bits sometimes from various versions. Work out the most efficient fingerings and transitions between chords... learn all the other parts in the song eg. the bass, drums, keyboard parts... record them... Put together the entire track myself without session musicians... even sing on them (badly but in tune) sometimes. Also play the stuff I play is solo guitar anyway so you don't even need other instruments most of the time - but they can be a nice to have depending on the track. Also sometimes I will learn various popular tracks and reproduce them for just for the fun of it. Eg. JJ Cale tracks, Jerry Reed Tracks, The Shadows etc...

Do I do it for money or for other people.... Absolutely not. I get nothing for it at all. The only reason I put it on Youtube is for the same reason an artist might hang a painting in a gallery. It'd be a shame if no-one else saw it and enjoy it... that's about the only reason. Do I really care if people enjoy it or not though? not really. I don't really care what they experience. It's a bit like when I kicked my toe as a kid and my Dad used to say "I didn't feel a thing". You don't care what other people experience really - you're not them.

Why do I do it at all? because it's entertainment like television. Ultimately meaningless but kills time.

 

[DanTravis62]

Do I do it for money or for other people.... Absolutely not. I get nothing for it at all. The only reason I put it on Youtube is for the same reason an artist might hang a painting in a gallery. It'd be a shame if no-one else saw it... that's about the only reason.

I feel like I have to say - I don't have anything against covers (I was in a boomer cover band until recently) because you took an unreasonable amount of offense to the OP post - I just think it's a wildly different skillset

But wouldn't it more be like "copying a famous master artists original painting and hanging it in a gallery" for people to see?

 

[Thumbpicker]

But wouldn't it more be like "copying a famous master artists original painting and hanging it in a gallery" for people to see?

Maybe but wouldn't you say that about a symphony orchestra as well. Or a jazz musican that plays "standards".

Some of it is about interpretation and execution of the piece of music.

Also she said I took offence - I never said I took offence. I don't really give a shit at all. I am only having an intellectual argument with her about what a musician is and what is valuable to various musicians. ie. what is valuable is different things to different people.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

about what a musician is and what is valuable to various musicians. ie. what is valuable is different things to different people.

This is what I'm trying to ascertain. It's not that I find it wrong, it's that I don't understand the investment.

 

[DanTravis62]

Maybe but wouldn't you say that about a symphony orchestra as well. Or a jazz musican that plays "standards".

Some of it is about interpretation and execution of the piece of music.

I certainly would say that - I think being a "technician" is one side of being a musician and being creative is another separate skill set, with a little bit of overlap

The issue is the amount of creative expression inherent to "interpretation" and "execution" is pretty limited, obviously, in comparison to actually composing and creating

I mean, unless youre being a contrarian because you value that larger amount of creative expression more, and don't value the technical aspects as much - then it would certainly make sense why that dichotomy causes cognitive dissonance