Which Diezel Would Work Best For My Band?

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mightywarlock

mightywarlock

Well-known member
I have gone back and forth on trying to decide between different amps, and I always end up with more questions than answers.
I've thought Herbert, but I liked Ch.2 of that amp, not so much 3.
I've thought maybe VH4. but the Compression kind of bothered me.
I've tried Einstein, but I've heard not so good cranked as much as the others.

so what I thought I would do, is post a couple of YOUTUBE videos of my bands shows in the past, which show the tight tone I get with my Pre-500 Dual Recto, and see what you folks would recommend for something that would work BETTER than what I already own for my use in this band.
a nice heavy and Tight sound.

alrighty then.




 
Your sound in the video is stereotypical channel 3 VH4.... please keep in mind the VH-4 is obviously going to have it's own flavor, but it's going to have that mid-range bark like your Recto does... I hope I don't catch some shit for saying this, and I"m not trying to persuade you out of buying a Diezel, but HOLY GOOD GOD that rec your using sounds INCREDIBLE, I've heard about the older recs but never heard one and wow... that sounds NOTHING like the rectifiers I have used...

Anyhow, here's a vid of VH-4 channel 3, I definitely think it would be more your style, judging from the pics in the background, and some pics I've seen on here, I'm pretty sure that guy is on these boards and is on the pretty regularly, maybe he'll chime in... good luck man!

Hmmm, seems imbedding vids is different here then Harmony Central, sorry man, just click this link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcOui-utLHI

Wait till about 20 seconds in or so when he turns the volume on his guitar all the way up, awesome sounding stuff... this vid is one of the reasons I have a VH-4 on the way :P
 
Mizati20 said:
but HOLY GOOD GOD that rec your using sounds INCREDIBLE, I've heard about the older recs but never heard one and wow... that sounds NOTHING like the rectifiers I have used.../quote]

I know ;)

This is #112. and before it i went though a 2004 3 ch. triple, an older 2 ch. from 99 or 01, a recto pre, and even tried my Triaxis that has the recto board.
None of them sound as good as this head. it also has to do with the fact I am using JJ EL34L's, and an EH12ax7 in v1.
throw an MXR 10 band in the Loop so ever slightly tweak it (very very slightly) and bam! clarity and meanness.
And that Ibanez Ziphos in the clearer sounding videos helped a little do with that De-activator pickup. (the other video was a washburn with a Duncan El Diablo).

but i want MEANER and just as clean heavy style.

oh, and I watched the videos. I have been considering this kind of cab as well...i was talking to someone about it recently...

and a bit of the tone he gets in these vids are from the guitar. I have a PRS Tremonti as well, just a different color, and it is definitely the tone of that guitar and pickups that has that low end growl and thump enhancing the amp. I don't use mine live too much because it is a dark sounding guitar...but nice on recordings.
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It seems like you're already happy with the sound you have. Why do you need a new amp? From what I can tell from your videos, your tone is pretty good. I would agree with the previous statement and say that a VH4, CH. 3 is probably the best for what you're looking for (from any of the Diezel offerings, at least).
 
I agree FourT2... his tone is amazing.. and if it ain't broke.... but who am I to say anything, I effing love my Herbert and i'm trading for a VH4, hope I don't regret it... LoL
 
Mizati20":30dkeq25 said:
I agree FourT2... his tone is amazing.. and if it ain't broke.... but who am I to say anything, I effing love my Herbert and i'm trading for a VH4, hope I don't regret it... LoL
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I forgot, why are you trading again?
 
everyone always loves the way this Recto sounds...but...

I still feel there has to be greener grass....but it has to sound better than what I have.

I just picked up this Rivera head recently and it's tone is very much like the Mesa tone, but a little different...and I actually feel it is a little too much...out of control kind of...I wish i could describe it...but the gain on the Rivera is crazy...and the gain on the Recto is not as much. I like to have my tone cut through. on our Evil Epitome album i used this recto on the left, and a stiletto deuce ii on the right. The brighter toned stiletto cut the mix more and overshadowed the recto, but the basic tone is the same.

for the next album we are going to be doing, i am going to multitrack even more (i played once into both amps at the same time, and mic'd 2 cabs with 3 mics before...i don't really like the way it came out), and will use the Rivera if i still have it, the Recto, and probably my JCM800KK as well, and either a 5150 or a Diezel if i have one by then. It's going to be way over the top, but I want to quad track it with at least 4 different amps...and if i feel the need for more, i may use my Triaxis and JMP-1, or even the ProGAP...but i doubt it.

I was thinking the Herbert before, due to the low end and such, but I do like a tighter tone, so the looseness of the Herbert may not be for me, if it is that much looser...
I know I was in GC today and played a nice les paul through a Bogner Alchemist 2x12 (they had it on sale for under $800), and then a 6550+, and at first I thought the Alchemist was ok, very tight in the gain department, but there was this undertone to the low end that really bothered me, and with the boost on, i could not dial it out...but then the 6550+ was pretty close to what I like...I have been thinking of getting a 5150 for quite awhile and have just been trying to decide head of combo on that one...i can get one locally for $450 for the combo, or $375 for a really beat up head...but I am unsure still if i want to go that route. I'll get one eventually.

I've just always wanted to add an ENGL SE, and Diezel (Herbert I thought, until now...now you say VH4 I will have to recheck into them again...)
 
mightywarlock":3ciucpcn said:
everyone always loves the way this Recto sounds...but...

I still feel there has to be greener grass....but it has to sound better than what I have.

I just picked up this Rivera head recently and it's tone is very much like the Mesa tone, but a little different...and I actually feel it is a little too much...out of control kind of...I wish i could describe it...but the gain on the Rivera is crazy...and the gain on the Recto is not as much. I like to have my tone cut through. on our Evil Epitome album i used this recto on the left, and a stiletto deuce ii on the right. The brighter toned stiletto cut the mix more and overshadowed the recto, but the basic tone is the same.

for the next album we are going to be doing, i am going to multitrack even more (i played once into both amps at the same time, and mic'd 2 cabs with 3 mics before...i don't really like the way it came out), and will use the Rivera if i still have it, the Recto, and probably my JCM800KK as well, and either a 5150 or a Diezel if i have one by then. It's going to be way over the top, but I want to quad track it with at least 4 different amps...and if i feel the need for more, i may use my Triaxis and JMP-1, or even the ProGAP...but i doubt it.

I was thinking the Herbert before, due to the low end and such, but I do like a tighter tone, so the looseness of the Herbert may not be for me, if it is that much looser...
I know I was in GC today and played a nice les paul through a Bogner Alchemist 2x12 (they had it on sale for under $800), and then a 6550+, and at first I thought the Alchemist was ok, very tight in the gain department, but there was this undertone to the low end that really bothered me, and with the boost on, i could not dial it out...but then the 6550+ was pretty close to what I like...I have been thinking of getting a 5150 for quite awhile and have just been trying to decide head of combo on that one...i can get one locally for $450 for the combo, or $375 for a really beat up head...but I am unsure still if i want to go that route. I'll get one eventually.

I've just always wanted to add an ENGL SE, and Diezel (Herbert I thought, until now...now you say VH4 I will have to recheck into them again...)
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For running multiple amps and multi-tracking with different amps, I would recommend the VH4, considering the other amps you've listed you will be using. The VH4 is tighter than the Herbert, it is more compressed, and a little less saturated. But, it has lots and lots of balls and cut. It would pair nicely with your Recto and JCM.

I just posted a thread with a clip of Channel 3 if you're interested. Everything is pretty much set at 12:00 (except the master), so keep in mind it's not running lots and lots of low-end and gain/saturation. But, it can be eq'd that way.
 
Well you are making the VH4 sound like the amp i should check out then, as that's what I am looking for, plenty of balls, punch, and cutting through the mix. I find the Marshall Kerry King gets muddy in the mix because it has too much distortion if you crank it all the way. I run that amp hardly with any distortion because it is such a heavy sounding amp...very thick tone...(preamp on 1 oclock, assault on maybe 8oclock-9. its crazy how heavy that amp can get).

I just need to find someone who wants the Slipknot head then I can see about getting a VH4...
I thought people liked Slipknot. I bought the KR7 thinking it was a popular thing...
:confused:

It certainly sounds good...and ridiculously heavy...

i don't get it...



Hey Peter, any interest in a bulletproof piece of American Amplifier technology to analyze in exchange for a VH4??

hehe :lol: :LOL:
 
Kind of OT but remember when guitars are sitting in the mix the real low frequencies that the Diezel's and Dual Rec's can get aren't the ones that really cut through in the mix. As you said your self the Stiletto overshadowed the rec and it's because where the guitar sits in the mix is really in the mid range, a lot of people don't realize the hugest guitar tones are really created by a well mixed bass and guitar together, if they are both filling the right frequencies properly then you can really get that super thick guitar tone. Another thing when tracking guitars is honestly man you don't need NEARLY as much gain as most people think, turn that shit down, when your doing multiple takes and it over lays it fills i thickens up super fast esp with multiple mics. I've never tried this with a Recto my self since I've never owned one but a buddy of mine who does a lot of metal band recordings swears by putting a Tube Screamer in front JUST to color the sound, not to add more gain or drive or volume, it apparently just makes it sit better in the mix and colors the sound for what is needed with metal music.

Best mic combo I've heard/used is a Royer 121 ribbon mic and a Senhessier 421, with those two mics, just double the guitar tracks no need to go quad, that's 4 tracks from 2 amps and 2 mics, it'll be thick as hell. Listen closely to some heavier "Thick" tones not necessarily metal tones and a lot of times they just aren't individually that high of gain as people might think. Also from my experiences the more gain you add, the more compressed the tone is and for whatever reason compressed guitar tones don't seem to cut through as much to my ears.

I don't think you can go wrong with the VH4 or the Einstein, I think the Herbert has to loose of a sound at least to my ears, I own the Einstein 100, and this thing is a monster with EL34's I can't imagine if I put in 6550's it would probably rip my head of and then laugh at me. The VH4 is a little dryer sounding to my ears but it is still a great sounding amp, keep in mind though I can only commend on The Ein in person as I have only heard the herb live and clips, not played one, and only heard clips of the VH4.

Hope that helps.

Dallas
 
Dallas Marlow":ofkesua6 said:
Kind of OT but remember when guitars are sitting in the mix the real low frequencies that the Diezel's and Dual Rec's can get aren't the ones that really cut through in the mix. As you said your self the Stiletto overshadowed the rec and it's because where the guitar sits in the mix is really in the mid range, a lot of people don't realize the hugest guitar tones are really created by a well mixed bass and guitar together, if they are both filling the right frequencies properly then you can really get that super thick guitar tone. Another thing when tracking guitars is honestly man you don't need NEARLY as much gain as most people think, turn that shit down, when your doing multiple takes and it over lays it fills i thickens up super fast esp with multiple mics. I've never tried this with a Recto my self since I've never owned one but a buddy of mine who does a lot of metal band recordings swears by putting a Tube Screamer in front JUST to color the sound, not to add more gain or drive or volume, it apparently just makes it sit better in the mix and colors the sound for what is needed with metal music.

Best mic combo I've heard/used is a Royer 121 ribbon mic and a Senhessier 421, with those two mics, just double the guitar tracks no need to go quad, that's 4 tracks from 2 amps and 2 mics, it'll be thick as hell. Listen closely to some heavier "Thick" tones not necessarily metal tones and a lot of times they just aren't individually that high of gain as people might think. Also from my experiences the more gain you add, the more compressed the tone is and for whatever reason compressed guitar tones don't seem to cut through as much to my ears.

I don't think you can go wrong with the VH4 or the Einstein, I think the Herbert has to loose of a sound at least to my ears, I own the Einstein 100, and this thing is a monster with EL34's I can't imagine if I put in 6550's it would probably rip my head of and then laugh at me. The VH4 is a little dryer sounding to my ears but it is still a great sounding amp, keep in mind though I can only commend on The Ein in person as I have only heard the herb live and clips, not played one, and only heard clips of the VH4.

Hope that helps.

Dallas
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+1 You have to have the right balance in the mix between all the instruments. There needs to first be space where you can place the guitar and you need to give the bass guitar room to breathe, as it were. I generally don't even put the gain over 12:00 and I crank the mids. Guitar sounds amazing when the amp is EQ'd right.
 
Looks like I will be selling my Rivera KR7 this weekend hopefully...which means, I will be in the market for a Diezel very soon.

From what folks are saying, it looks like i should be more interested in a VH4...which I have tried in the past and don't remember liking too much, but I was not able to crank it, only played it for a few minutes. I did get to try a Herbert, and I remember liking ch.2 a lot, but since I already get a great tone with my Recto, I think I have the low end covered, and am more interested in cutting, and mids and such, and I like a tight amp, with no mushy bottom end, so then I go back to the VH4.

If i can find one local I might try it out, but otherwise I may have to buy blindly.

so...you think VH4 eh?
:confused:
 
go for the VH4. it will fit your style perfectly. Just take some time with the knobs...cuz anything is possible with the amp...except for suck of course :lol: :LOL:
 
I just with the Diezel amps were easier to try out in more stores.

There is one store nearby in all of los angeles, and they hardly ever have anything in stock, and even if they do, they don't like people trying out the amps unless they are going to buy something that day.

I know you need to get things going better here in the USA Peter, but some of the store choices thus far are very lackluster. I won't name the shop in the forums, but let's just say they carry a lot of high end german amps and other foreign amps...just every time i go there, you always get the feeling they don't want you trying anything, and it makes for a very negative experience...every time. Hence only being able to try a herbert for less than 5 minutes, or a engl SE for 5 minutes, etc...they always kick out out. It's not like guitar center where you can mash away at everything and no one gives a damn. although I really hate guitar centers and hate that I can't find any local high end stores other than this one store that wont even let you try anything.

Maybe I should open up a shop like the Axe Palace on the east coast...That guy has Rivera, Diezel, Engl, Fryette, etc...

hmm...maybe i should talk to him about opening a west coast chain!

but yeah, the Diezel dealers here suck ass. :thumbsdown:
 
Hey man, if you haven't been to Guitar Center in Hollywood check it out. Last time I was there they had 2 VH4s and a Herbert. Might want to call before if you do go though. Good luck!
 
cml694":34rg7dax said:
Hey man, if you haven't been to Guitar Center in Hollywood check it out. Last time I was there they had 2 VH4s and a Herbert. Might want to call before if you do go though. Good luck!
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They had a herbert in there a few months ago for something like $2700 because it had been there for a very long time.

too bad I didnt have the money then.

i called last week, no Herbert's or VH4's in California at any guitar centers. Only Einsteins at the moment.
 
I'd recommend the Herbert. Channel 2+ with a good boost in front is one of my favorite metal tones ever. This is especially true with the new versions IMO. I think the VH4 or Einstein could work too if tweaked right with the right tubes but the Herbert just always has been #1 for me.
 
silversurfer879":23i9zq9s said:
Diezel is good but it's not as great as people say. It's significantly psychological. You'll find that the amp sounds great, but not a whole lot better. For the money you spend on a diezel, you're better off sticking to something that's been around like mesa. There's a reason these company's have stuck around for so long. If diezel was really as good as they say, then everybody would be forking over the money. Don't be a gullible musician. Try different things, but definitely don't spend the money on a diezel. It's completely unnecessary.
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You are clearly just trolling to try and piss people off when in fact no one is interested, nor do they care, in what your opinion is about which amp to purchase. I'm sure you will be swiftly removed from this board. Go and try to pick a fight over at Harmony Central, you might actually have some luck over there.

Have a wonderful evening. :thumbsup:
 
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