Wizard guys, differences in MC vs MCII vs MTL?

Bram576 said:
yeah, I’d strongly recommend anyone that’s on the fence due to their cost… try a Fryette/vht first. Can get a used deliverance for cheap at this point. Wizards are better but it is at least in the same sport. Raw, uncompressed. They both have the hollow mids too. So guys can figure out if that’s something they dig or not.
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It can be helpful for figuring out the mid quality, but I do know some guys that like Fryette’s and not Wizards and some that like Wizards but not Fryette’s. You never really know, but not a bad starting point
 
WizardSouth-JP said:
The Uberschall Ultra is a good amp that's in the same ballpark for heavy crushing tones like the Hell Razor - although different feel, there's loads of tone shaping and fun as hell to play.
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Love the Uber ultra killer amp. Every time I plug it in too I get a new sound. The depth and density controls change the amp drastically. Then having the 2 different Uber modes. Amp rules.
 
Both the MCII and MTL mk2 are very versatile. As said, the MTL, with use of the sweep knob, presence and bright knobs can definitely get in to MC territory, but also has more total gain on tap and more low end extension.

The contour knob on the MCII allows you to make it a bit darker and chewier than an MC1, which I find to be a bit more aggressive and pissed off regardless.

Never played a Hell Razor, but it seems like a pretty versatile amp as well from some of the newer clips I have seen that can do much more than the clanky, extreme tight/modern thing. Glad it isn't like the Uber Ultra....I can see how/why guys love it, but it is probably my least favorite Bogner I have owned.
 
thanks for the thoughts everyone, I think I have a better idea of the models now. The HR sounds killer, but I think I like the idea of something between the HR and MC. The MTL sounds like it might fit the bill if I can boost it into the HR range.
 
VHTStark said:
Both the MCII and MTL mk2 are very versatile. As said, the MTL, with use of the sweep knob, presence and bright knobs can definitely get in to MC territory, but also has more total gain on tap and more low end extension.

The contour knob on the MCII allows you to make it a bit darker and chewier than an MC1, which I find to be a bit more aggressive and pissed off regardless.

Never played a Hell Razor, but it seems like a pretty versatile amp as well from some of the newer clips I have seen that can do much more than the clanky, extreme tight/modern thing. Glad it isn't like the Uber Ultra....I can see how/why guys love it, but it is probably my least favorite Bogner I have owned.
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Agreed for me as well. I didn’t hear any similarities when I AB’ed the Uber Ultra I had with my Hell Razor KT150 other than both had lots of power and punch and could get tight. If that makes them almost the same then I guess a lot of amps are almost the same as them lol
 
Erock said:
thanks for the thoughts everyone, I think I have a better idea of the models now. The HR sounds killer, but I think I like the idea of something between the HR and MC. The MTL sounds like it might fit the bill if I can boost it into the HR range.
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Imo the HR is still better and can be dialed back to be more like the MTL and MC unless you want the more rock-ish sounds in them. I didn’t care for my MTL boosted, but some guys seem to make it work for them. I found the MC I had more agreeable with boosts. The MTL also has more low mids and less uppermids than the MC and HR

In some ways the HR is sort of like an MC that got the perfect mod like a stock Marshall with a great high gain mod. Also 2 of its gain controls shape the lower and higher frequencies and is part of how you can dial in lots of different sounds with it. That’s not in the cards for the MC or MTL. They can be further accented or unaccented with them being push-pull
 
The way I dialed my KT66 HR was very similar to my UU in both tone an feel. In reality, I sound like me on about everything I own and tend to dial them in close enough. I don't get statements where people say this metal amp is completely different from that metal amp. I sound like me regardless of the amp. Kind of like listening to an Ola England video...it all sounds the same. I sold the HR and kept the UU.

As for my favorite Wizard...it'd be my KT66 MTL mk2 60w and my 50w MTL "Flamethrower" I'll always keep the 50w MCII, but I think I could do 99% of the tones I use it for with my MTL. I do like the 50w versions more than the 100s though. They have C transformers vs. V...whether that impacts the tone or not, who knows.
 
RedB4Black said:
The way I dialed my KT66 HR was very similar to my UU in both tone an feel. In reality, I sound like me on about everything I own and tend to dial them in close enough. I don't get statements where people say this metal amp is completely different from that metal amp. I sound like me regardless of the amp. Kind of like listening to an Ola England video...it all sounds the same. I sold the HR and kept the UU.

As for my favorite Wizard...it'd be my KT66 MTL mk2 60w and my 50w MTL "Flamethrower" I'll always keep the 50w MCII, but I think I could do 99% of the tones I use it for with my MTL. I do like the 50w versions more than the 100s though. They have C transformers vs. V...whether that impacts the tone or not, who knows.
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Same with how I dial amps in - unless the amp is a dud, it’s gonna be close if the EQ sculpting does what EQ controls do. Each amp will have its own inherent tone and nuances but I dial the amps in based on what I like to hear. The MTL Mk2 is probably top 5 amps I’ve played maybe top 2-3.
 
I had a 2012 MTL 50w, first. Back 10 yrs ago. It was cool, but had no mids period. Well, low mids but who wants those? :p It just didn't cut very well like a Marshall so off it went. Next was a 2010 MC100....with the Marshall-like C transformers. Now we're talkin. Much better midrange, and thump for days. As long as the on board boost was off it took pedals well. Great amp. Ultimately, I sold it when I saw a way to get a C+ Coli. Since getting my 72 Marshall I see no need for any Wizard anymore.

Btw, there were no 'cocked mids' at all in either Wizard I had. In fact they both could have used more upper mids than they had.
 
RedB4Black said:
The way I dialed my KT66 HR was very similar to my UU in both tone an feel. In reality, I sound like me on about everything I own and tend to dial them in close enough. I don't get statements where people say this metal amp is completely different from that metal amp. I sound like me regardless of the amp. Kind of like listening to an Ola England video...it all sounds the same. I sold the HR and kept the UU.

As for my favorite Wizard...it'd be my KT66 MTL mk2 60w and my 50w MTL "Flamethrower" I'll always keep the 50w MCII, but I think I could do 99% of the tones I use it for with my MTL. I do like the 50w versions more than the 100s though. They have C transformers vs. V...whether that impacts the tone or not, who knows.
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Thanks Matt. I feel ya, I'm usually just looking for a particular sound, and everything gets dialed similar. They're either dialed for metal, or for my 80's fix. I'll keep that in mind about the transformers as well. What did you like more about the C? I usually gravitate towards the 100W versions of most amps. Starting to be a rabbit hole here, lol.

braintheory said:
Imo the HR is still better and can be dialed back to be more like the MTL and MC unless you want the more rock-ish sounds in them. I didn’t care for my MTL boosted, but some guys seem to make it work for them. I found the MC I had more agreeable with boosts. The MTL also has more low mids and less uppermids than the MC and HR

In some ways the HR is sort of like an MC that got the perfect mod like a stock Marshall with a great high gain mod. Also 2 of its gain controls shape the lower and higher frequencies and is part of how you can dial in lots of different sounds with it. That’s not in the cards for the MC or MTL. They can be further accented or unaccented with them being push-pull
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Hmm, that could be a problem since I love to boost amps. I like straight in too, but it needs to take a boost well for my tastes. HR is sounding awful good. Going to be fun tracking down one of them used though, I don't see many come up on the market. Off to look at more clips. Thanks man!
 
Racerxrated said:
I had a 2012 MTL 50w, first. Back 10 yrs ago. It was cool, but had no mids period. Well, low mids but who wants those? :p It just didn't cut very well like a Marshall so off it went. Next was a 2010 MC100....with the Marshall-like C transformers. Now we're talkin. Much better midrange, and thump for days. As long as the on board boost was off it took pedals well. Great amp. Ultimately, I sold it when I saw a way to get a C+ Coli. Since getting my 72 Marshall I see no need for any Wizard anymore.

Btw, there were no 'cocked mids' at all in either Wizard I had. In fact they both could have used more upper mids than they had.
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not gonna lie, I've been considering it. Big thump, that upper mid "kerrang", takes a boost well... Do I really just want an old Marshall? :love:

All good info, really appreciate it guys. :cheers:
 
Erock said:
not gonna lie, I've been considering it. Big thump, that upper mid "kerrang", takes a boost well... Do I really just want an old Marshall? :love:

All good info, really appreciate it guys. :cheers:
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Wizards are indeed killer amps, not gonna take anything away from them but for me, a 70-73 Superlead is all I need. Plus a few pedals.
 
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