Why it sucks to be a lead guitarist in the industry.

van hellion":2h4x3vd6 said:
supersonic":2h4x3vd6 said:
It's hard to be a guitarist and look at a track with a non bias opinion. You need to ask yourself, Does it NEED that much guitar? Most of the time the answer is no. Less is more! Think of the most popular songs of all time, are they guitar virtuoso songs? No, they're a simple hook.
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gonna disagree with ya on that one, to me the greatest rock songs of all time have epic ass guitar work. Cream, Aerosmith, Hendrix, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns and Fuckin Roses, Led Zepellin. i mean really dude did you think about what you said before you typed it????

On top of the classic shit i listed 2 modern bands in my past thread, on top of that add in up and comers like Escape the Fate, epic rocks Coheed and Cambria. seems to me that the bands that are making an impact have guitar solos for days. Look at country top guns Brad Paisley and Kieth Urban.

lets take pop, john Mayer is the shining guitar hero there and fuckin nuno is on tour with Rhianna right now, he gets to shred balls every night. we all have seen the clips of pinks guitarist, justin burnin a hole on that fretboard every night too.



just my humble 2 cents, but man you struck a nerve on this old redneck with that post ;)

A Wood
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Absolutely agree. Seems to me that producers and labels have been following formula's and buying in to their own BS for so many years that they can't see past their own ego's.

If the producer that we used "loved" our material so much why did he try to change everything about the songs and sound when we got in the studio? What really was his goal? To make us sound like ass? To make us sound like everybody else?

Once again, that guy knew nothing about what rock music should sound like. He has no history with it. I do.
 
van hellion":1d01ult9 said:
supersonic":1d01ult9 said:
It's hard to be a guitarist and look at a track with a non bias opinion. You need to ask yourself, Does it NEED that much guitar? Most of the time the answer is no. Less is more! Think of the most popular songs of all time, are they guitar virtuoso songs? No, they're a simple hook.
Click to expand...


gonna disagree with ya on that one, to me the greatest rock songs of all time have epic ass guitar work. Cream, Aerosmith, Hendrix, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns and Fuckin Roses, Led Zepellin. i mean really dude did you think about what you said before you typed it????

On top of the classic shit i listed 2 modern bands in my past thread, on top of that add in up and comers like Escape the Fate, epic rocks Coheed and Cambria. seems to me that the bands that are making an impact have guitar solos for days. Look at country top guns Brad Paisley and Kieth Urban.

lets take pop, john Mayer is the shining guitar hero there and fuckin nuno is on tour with Rhianna right now, he gets to shred balls every night. we all have seen the clips of pinks guitarist, justin burnin a hole on that fretboard every night too.



just my humble 2 cents, but man you struck a nerve on this old redneck with that post ;)

A Wood
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:thumbsup: +1000000

There's enough room in the world for punk bands who know 3 chords and Dream Theater 9 minute long instrumentals. Me, i don't care what's popular anymore and i listen to a lot of European metal like Pagan's Mind or Circus Maximus because they're tearing it up. And I'll just flip on Sirius and listen to Hair Nation and it's 1987 all over again. :LOL: :LOL:

But lead guitar seems to have made a bit of a comeback and younger kids seem to have a thirst for it again. When my 13 year old Nephew comes over he wants me to play VH, Ozzy, and other 80's greats. Of course Guitar Hero did have something to do with it.
 
danyeo":3e279vn9 said:
van hellion":3e279vn9 said:
supersonic":3e279vn9 said:
It's hard to be a guitarist and look at a track with a non bias opinion. You need to ask yourself, Does it NEED that much guitar? Most of the time the answer is no. Less is more! Think of the most popular songs of all time, are they guitar virtuoso songs? No, they're a simple hook.
Click to expand...


gonna disagree with ya on that one, to me the greatest rock songs of all time have epic ass guitar work. Cream, Aerosmith, Hendrix, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns and Fuckin Roses, Led Zepellin. i mean really dude did you think about what you said before you typed it????

On top of the classic shit i listed 2 modern bands in my past thread, on top of that add in up and comers like Escape the Fate, epic rocks Coheed and Cambria. seems to me that the bands that are making an impact have guitar solos for days. Look at country top guns Brad Paisley and Kieth Urban.

lets take pop, john Mayer is the shining guitar hero there and fuckin nuno is on tour with Rhianna right now, he gets to shred balls every night. we all have seen the clips of pinks guitarist, justin burnin a hole on that fretboard every night too.



just my humble 2 cents, but man you struck a nerve on this old redneck with that post ;)

A Wood
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:thumbsup: +1000000

There's enough room in the world for punk bands who know 3 chords and Dream Theater 9 minute long instrumentals. Me, i don't care what's popular anymore and i listen to a lot of European metal like Pagan's Mind or Circus Maximus because they're tearing it up. And I'll just flip on Sirius and listen to Hair Nation and it's 1987 all over again. :LOL: :LOL:

But lead guitar seems to have made a bit of a comeback and younger kids seem to have a thirst for it again. When my 13 year old Nephew comes over he wants me to play VH, Ozzy, and other 80's greats. Of course Guitar Hero did have something to do with it.
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Yup. And if you happen to be good at leads and they add to the song then do it. :thumbsup:
 
Badronald":6dcei1c0 said:
Absolutely agree. Seems to me that producers and labels have been following formula's and buying in to their own BS for so many years that they can't see past their own ego's.
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Bingo..! Exactly what it is. Like Andy said before "there is no "Formula" for a "hit song". November Rain is definitely a good analogy for that one. Epic and definitely well past the 3 minute mark. I wish the whole industry would really start to get that..
MAN.. :doh: Now I definitely see why so many musicians in the business are so jaded towards music and the business..
 
van hellion":27xoc6an said:
supersonic":27xoc6an said:
It's hard to be a guitarist and look at a track with a non bias opinion. You need to ask yourself, Does it NEED that much guitar? Most of the time the answer is no. Less is more! Think of the most popular songs of all time, are they guitar virtuoso songs? No, they're a simple hook.
Click to expand...


gonna disagree with ya on that one, to me the greatest rock songs of all time have epic ass guitar work. Cream, Aerosmith, Hendrix, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns and Fuckin Roses, Led Zepellin. i mean really dude did you think about what you said before you typed it????

On top of the classic shit i listed 2 modern bands in my past thread, on top of that add in up and comers like Escape the Fate, epic rockers Coheed and Cambria. seems to me that the bands that are making an impact have guitar solos for days. Look at country top guns Brad Paisley and Kieth Urban.

lets take pop, john Mayer is the shining guitar hero there and fuckin Nuno Bettencourt is on tour with Rhianna right now, he gets to shred balls every night. we all have seen the clips of pinks guitarist, justin burnin a hole on that fretboard every night too.



just my humble 2 cents, but man you struck a nerve on this old redneck with that post ;)

A Wood
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Hey don't shoot the messenger, I didn't make it that way. Catchy hooks and solos that you can hum and are memorable are what stick and sell. Personally I'm all for solos. All of the example you have there are or were in their day heavy bands, statistics show heavy music is a minority. The Beatles, Elvis and a gazillion others have had very few solos.
 
supersonic":28iaq965 said:
van hellion":28iaq965 said:
supersonic":28iaq965 said:
It's hard to be a guitarist and look at a track with a non bias opinion. You need to ask yourself, Does it NEED that much guitar? Most of the time the answer is no. Less is more! Think of the most popular songs of all time, are they guitar virtuoso songs? No, they're a simple hook.
Click to expand...


gonna disagree with ya on that one, to me the greatest rock songs of all time have epic ass guitar work. Cream, Aerosmith, Hendrix, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns and Fuckin Roses, Led Zepellin. i mean really dude did you think about what you said before you typed it????

On top of the classic shit i listed 2 modern bands in my past thread, on top of that add in up and comers like Escape the Fate, epic rockers Coheed and Cambria. seems to me that the bands that are making an impact have guitar solos for days. Look at country top guns Brad Paisley and Kieth Urban.

lets take pop, john Mayer is the shining guitar hero there and fuckin Nuno Bettencourt is on tour with Rhianna right now, he gets to shred balls every night. we all have seen the clips of pinks guitarist, justin burnin a hole on that fretboard every night too.



just my humble 2 cents, but man you struck a nerve on this old redneck with that post ;)

A Wood
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Hey don't shoot the messenger, I didn't make it that way. Catchy hooks and solos that you can hum and are memorable are what stick and sell. Personally I'm all for solos. All of the example you have there are or were in their day heavy bands, statistics show heavy music is a minority. The Beatles, Elvis and a gazillion others have had very few solos.
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Not shooting anybody :D

i listed more than hard rock examples though to be fair,

Also Elvis had one of the most iconic guitarists ever in his band (james burton) who ripped up the tele on plenty of tracks and especially live!! Heavy music is a minority as far as all music genres go, I will agree, BUT for every example (from any genre) you can give of a mega successful hit without a guitar solo i can give you an example of a hit with a very iconic solo. and the Beatles???? i mean yeah they had plenty of songs without solos but they also wrote one of the most iconic "guitar songs" of all time with "while my guitar gently weeps."

AND Rob's band is the band in question here, Ashes Remain falls into the hard rock category, so why are solo's considered a 'no, no" if they are to be successful? some things arent lining up ya know?

my point was simple in that a guitar solo does not automatically=non commercially successful music. There is way more to guitar solos in songs than Dream Theater and Steve Vai and it seems as there isnt enough credit given to the mega commercially successful guitar artists. And both the producer in question (and your post to a certain extent) implied otherwise. ya know what i be sayin here?

A Wood
 
Andy hit it on the head. There's not only room for solos in today's rock music, but that's the shit that's selling! My favorite current rock bands all have solos in their music.

Man, scrap this guy and go work with a producer who is in touch with today's music. Hell, you could have James Lugo do your album. :rock:
 
Christian music does get watered down in the recording studio. It has to have that 'praise music' sound to it. There's not too much room for artistry. I hated buying Matishyaho's studio album and hearing how watered down it was. I loved his Live album from Stubb's in Austin. Great Sound! The studio album sucked all of the character out of it.

I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble with this. I would love for some more people to come out with praise or worship music that didn't have to sound just like everything else. All recording jocks get this in their head though. With every type of music, really. I can't tell you how to deal with it. That will be up to you, but do deal with it. Like everyone said, fight for your right to get your sound on that recording.

Unfortunately, if you were playing with Amy Grant, you could insist on the guitar work being true. If you are not already a seller, they are going to make you sound like something that is already a seller. It is all they know and all they believe in professionally. If they aren't telling you what to play, you can count on them cutting it out or mixing it down.

I would at least insist that it get recorded. That way you can fight for it to be in there. Just say, "We really need to get this on the track, so we can decide later about how it fits in." Also, be there when 'later' comes and work your sound back into the mix. It may require some creative justification, but get as much of your sound into the record as possible. And good luck!
 
srinivassa":1xqz6hsc said:
I would at least insist that it get recorded. That way you can fight for it to be in there. Just say, "We really need to get this on the track, so we can decide later about how it fits in." Also, be there when 'later' comes and work your sound back into the mix. It may require some creative justification, but get as much of your sound into the record as possible. And good luck!
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That is EXACTLY what i did on a lot of the songs. Everyone and their brothers liked the parts except the producer. If everyone in the band (including my singer) didnt like them, then they'd be cut right out. If this guy had his way, there would be no solos on the album, only 5 second instrumental breaks.

And also, we are Christians in a "rock" band with secular rock radio potential. If we were praise music i realize it'd be a different story. A big problem with the Christian industry as a whole is that they are ALWAYS years behind the curve. Never AHEAD of it. God forbid the one industry that SHOULD have awesome creative music doesnt. Even the bible says "Play skillfully on the stringed instruments with loud shouts" Prov 33:3. And also "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your strength and might" Ecc. 9:10. These are verses i live by as not only a musician, but as a believer. But no, it is just the opposite. Rather, lets copy what the world did and dumb it down. And while were at it lets put cheezy lyrics in it that dont cause people to actually think.. I mean, whats wrong with even a positive message for the world to hear? There is so much negative already, whats wrong with even embracing the concept of Hope?
anyways.. back to guitar... Id like to see it make a big comeback in the industry that we are in. And if any band has the chance to do it right now, its us.
 
Rob Tahan":2u0891f1 said:
srinivassa":2u0891f1 said:
I would at least insist that it get recorded. That way you can fight for it to be in there. Just say, "We really need to get this on the track, so we can decide later about how it fits in." Also, be there when 'later' comes and work your sound back into the mix. It may require some creative justification, but get as much of your sound into the record as possible. And good luck!
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That is EXACTLY what i did on a lot of the songs. Everyone and their brothers liked the parts except the producer. If everyone in the band (including my singer) didnt like them, then they'd be cut right out. If this guy had his way, there would be no solos on the album, only 5 second instrumental breaks.

And also, we are Christians in a "rock" band with secular rock radio potential. If we were praise music i realize it'd be a different story. A big problem with the Christian industry as a whole is that they are ALWAYS years behind the curve. Never AHEAD of it. God forbid the one industry that SHOULD have awesome creative music doesnt. Even the bible says "Play skillfully on the stringed instruments with loud shouts" Prov 33:3. And also "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your strength and might" Ecc. 9:10. These are verses i live by as not only a musician, but as a believer. But no, it is just the opposite. Rather, lets copy what the world did and dumb it down. And while were at it lets put cheezy lyrics in it that dont cause people to actually think.. I mean, whats wrong with even a positive message for the world to hear? There is so much negative already, whats wrong with even embracing the concept of Hope?
anyways.. back to guitar... Id like to see it make a big comeback in the industry that we are in. And if any band has the chance to do it right now, its us.
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nailed it with "{behind the curve" the Christian rock/metal scene always seems about a year and a half or 2 years behind the brand new trend on secular radio.

A Wood
 
ive done alot of different producing in my time. Im no George Martin...but i know objectivity is def nessesary. Now ive worked with some "sub par" lead guitarists who would wank all over a great song & totally ruin it. In suggestion, i would say "lets try it without the solo" . Sometimes that helps them see the light. If its a great song with serious potential & the player is a "musician" they will see that & usually give up their solo.

Now, ive seen some of the guys on here play. Rob & Andy both. (just using examples) these guys are TASTEFUL players IMHO! and i would serioulsy have issue telling them to remove a solo or lick since from what i have heard they 1. They dont suck & 2. They dont walk all over a song.

Just my $.02 coming from the producer side of my brain.

Some of these new producers really blow IMO. just worried about paying for their new Bentley & making cookie cutter bullshit.
 
PaulyPanacea":38vljl7f said:
ive done alot of different producing in my time. Im no George Martin...but i know objectivity is def nessesary. Now ive worked with some "sub par" lead guitarists who would wank all over a great song & totally ruin it. In suggestion, i would say "lets try it without the solo" . Sometimes that helps them see the light. If its a great song with serious potential & the player is a "musician" they will see that & usually give up their solo.

Now, ive seen some of the guys on here play. Rob & Andy both. (just using examples) these guys are TASTEFUL players IMHO! and i would serioulsy have issue telling them to remove a solo or lick since from what i have heard they 1. They dont suck & 2. They dont walk all over a song.

Just my $.02 coming from the producer side of my brain.

Some of these new producers really blow IMO. just worried about paying for their new Bentley & making cookie cutter bullshit.
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sounds like you got your producer side of you in the right mindset my friend. its about simply listening and saying to yourself "does this work and sound good" or "am i only changing something for the sake of changing something just to hopefully get a bigger cut of the publishing" which in many times is the case. Ive been a session guy for years and have over heard not so cool things and ideas of producers simply so they can get a bigger $ cut on the back end.

A Wood
 
yeah, im a big follower of the obvious...and not a "change for the sake of changing" kind of guy. there is no formula. Sometimes i listened to our tunes 10 times and went "that will never work"... and came back to it with a fresh mind and was like "that was seriously awesome". its all about the tune....not the $$! Thats the big problem with todays industry. Too much $$ being tossed around on sub par songs when there are many many great songs out there that no one will ever hear because its some garbage thats being pushed. Sad state of affairs!!

Rock on my Brothers!!
 
Unless the Producer is also pretty much going to sell it for you or be responsible for it's life after being finished I would hook up with an engineer you like and produce it yourselves.
 
skoora":2sfq3m9c said:
Unless the Producer is also pretty much going to sell it for you or be responsible for it's life after being finished I would hook up with an engineer you like and produce it yourselves.
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This is my solution from here on out. :yes:
 
In my opinion, music is about expression, and if he won't let you express yourself through songs you write, then he can suck a fuck.
 
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