VHI: Who Does it Best? Metro or Bray?

[napalmdeath]

I'd throw a Splawn into the mix.

With my owning a Helios 50, I found it's voicing to be much darker and modern to be compared. Bogner is Bogner, and though "Plexi" is used to discribe some of his voicings, they're still Bogner flavored. I don't hear VH.

 

[Kidkramer71]

I have a helios 100.
Of all the amps I have had , it nails the early vh tone the best ?
I have never owned a bray or metro ?
I have had the helios next to a 1970 or 71 cant remember ?
Both myself and the owner thought the helios cranked in plexi mode was very convincing ?
I believe the way you aproach the guitar has a lot to do with the final tone and how close you get to vh tone.

 

[lespaul6]

It has to have the top end sting for evh... since bogner does everything to get rid of that magical marshall quality, as do the boutique guys, I cant see how it will be what the op is looking for.... but ymmv

 

[Rdodson]

What about a Bogner Helios? I don't really know, I haven't played either the Metro or the Bray, and haven't spent much time with a Helios. I'd think that it would probably get in the neighborhood, though. I've heard great things about the Bray, the Metro, and the Helios, but reputation is all I know. I greatly admire the VHI tone, but it's just not my tone of choice.

The Helios is more metal-panel than plexi. Way stiffer.

 

[glpg80]

I'd throw a Splawn into the mix.

With my owning a Helios 50, I found it's voicing to be much darker and modern to be compared. Bogner is Bogner, and though "Plexi" is used to discribe some of his voicings, they're still Bogner flavored. I don't hear VH.

Every Splawn amplifier I've ever played was an ice pick to the forehead. I lived 30 minutes from headquarters back in NC and have played a plethora of them. They're great amps but starting from a wrong base for VH IMHO. They're overly stiff and would require a variac, re-bias, wrong transformer voicing, etc. etc. I just don't see it working when compared to Bray or Suhr?

 

[glpg80]

I think I've narrowed it down to Bray and Suhr.

The Suhr has the almost-broken thing going on for the sizzle in the low end and microphonic character on the top end. Bray has more of the polished album tone going on but still extremely convincing - I also see the Deluxe doing a wide barrage of other duties as well which surprised me.

The Helios seems to be a swiss army knife but still has the bogner tonality in the mids. I don't hear VH, I hear something a 5150 crunch channel could do. YMMV.

The Germino seems darker for every recording I've heard. I can't seem to find anyone playing the headroom 100 wide open into a load or used with a variac to see how it replicates the VHI tone. Without getting to play one in person, I'm more convinced by Bray and Suhr.

Keep them coming this has helped tremendously

 

[glpg80]

I had a Bray 4550 Deluxe & tried a Germino for 2 weeks. The AFX2 gets me closer than those.

It does help to have Rocco's hands though

Not touching this with a 10FT pole

 

[Rdodson]

Also, big huge part of the VH sound are the Greenbacks. You must have some form of GB (Scumback, Celestion, etc). It is part of the harmonic crunch, plus part of the "bounce" in the bass.

The lower filtering and lower NFB add to the way that circuit moves from clean to break up to higher gain...it is not just square-wave, it is very complex and dynamic. It is also way less forgiving that the common, modern high gain circuits. Of the modern amps, the Friedman Small Box (if run through Greenbacks) does a decent job if the mids are backed off on the amp.

 

[glpg80]

Also, big huge part of the VH sound are the Greenbacks. You must have some form of GB (Scumback, Celestion, etc). It is part of the harmonic crunch, plus part of the "bounce" in the bass.

The lower filtering and lower NFB add to the way that circuit moves from clean to break up to higher gain...it is not just square-wave, it is very complex and dynamic. It is also way less forgiving that the common, modern high gain circuits. Of the modern amps, the Friedman Small Box (if run through Greenbacks) does a decent job if the mids are backed off on the amp.

Yeah totally agreed. Speakers make a big difference and greenbacks are essential to the VH tone for sure. Thankfully G12Ms are my favourite speaker. They just don't like being pushed too hard and start to break apart IMHO. For the VHI thing that's all well and good, but for anything else, it's pretty much undesirable.

I've been wanting to get a Splawn cabinet built to house 4x greenback G12Ms, and another cabinet built to house a mix of H30s X V30s.

 

[BYTOR]

I had a Bray 4550 Deluxe & tried a Germino for 2 weeks. The AFX2 gets me closer than those.

It does help to have Rocco's hands though

Not touching this with a 10FT pole

It can be a bit of a sore subject

 

[Badronald]

Splawn Quickrod

“Icepick to the forehead”?

User error.

 

[Stradazone]

SL68

Yeah I`d say if the OP can play the with EVH vibe that amp would do the trick . Playing with the EVH vibe is the hard part IMO

This!!!!!!!

The Suhr SL68 has the same tweak in the circuit that EVH's Marshall had plus you have the built in switch that drops it down to 90 volts, other amps mentioned I'm sure are fine but the SL68 is the closest to Ed's magic Marshall

 

[glpg80]

Splawn Quickrod

“Icepick to the forehead”?

User error.

I wish Vlad was still around, he'd talk all day about the weird mids

 

[glpg80]

SL68

Yeah I`d say if the OP can play the with EVH vibe that amp would do the trick . Playing with the EVH vibe is the hard part IMO

This!!!!!!!

The Suhr SL68 has the same tweak in the circuit that EVH's Marshall had plus you have the built in switch that drops it down to 90 volts, other amps mentioned I'm sure are fine but the SL68 is the closest to Ed's magic Marshall

I saw you playing the SL68 live, Al. Do you find the tone changes at band volumes when the amplifier has been rung through a full gig? Yours didn't sound anything like the recordings after being ripped on for hours on stage, is that just poor video recording or something that's actually occurring?

Also, what's this circuit mod you talk about for Ed's marshall, I thought his was stock? Any literature you can PM?

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

Also, big huge part of the VH sound are the Greenbacks. You must have some form of GB (Scumback, Celestion, etc). It is part of the harmonic crunch, plus part of the "bounce" in the bass.

The lower filtering and lower NFB add to the way that circuit moves from clean to break up to higher gain...it is not just square-wave, it is very complex and dynamic. It is also way less forgiving that the common, modern high gain circuits. Of the modern amps, the Friedman Small Box (if run through Greenbacks) does a decent job if the mids are backed off on the amp.

Agree with Ron. A guy on here couple years ago posted his 50w EVH Head through old Marshall checkered cab with greenies and it was super close. Cab/speakers/vibe make a big portion as well as the plate reverb. Can take a bunch of preamps and get close if ya got those other bases locked in

 

[Rick Lee]

I'm probably in the minority, but VHI is my least favorite of the tones of the first six VH albums. It's great and all, but I'll take VHII and 1984 any day of the week over VHI. And my stock 2015 Marshall 1987xl with both volumes on 6 and no pedals gets pretty darn close to VHII tones.

 

[EXPcustom]

Not the amp, it's the guitar that gets the tone. My EVH Squire nails it:

 

[GtarLover]

The SL68 sounds pretty great in that clip. Also, Pete Thorn has done some decent videos with his getting pretty close. That top end is killer...also, effects (Reverb especially).

I recently got a Vic Johnson model 4550 from Dave. Really great amp!! It’s also really versatile. It has some features that you don’t usually find on this kind of amp. The coolest being the 2 volumes, foot switchable. Yet also pull out knobs that give you the kick in the pants!!

I sent a plexi build out to Michael and got his R/T mod. That thing kicks ass, yet is more of a one trick pony, if you will. Although, the way he uses the input jacks with a blank to vary the gain is very cool.

I do in fact really like the Splawn Quickrod as well. I hear your complaints, yet have always thought there is something great about those as well. Have used them for a lot of live shows. Love the newer models that have all the options!! Plus, the foot switchable solo boost is

You can get killer tones from ALL of these amps. Honestly, even with shipping and expenses the plexi build with Michael’s mod is the cheapest of the 3, but not by much (Suhr, Bray, Plexi build).
If you have any specific questions, PM me anytime.

Best of luck and I didn’t vote, hard choice.
BTW, I’m not a hardcore VH guy, so I’m not really able to say “this one is it.”

 

[metalsoup]

Bray. Period. I'd have one if I could get an FX loop.

The Bray “Vic Johnson Signature 4550” has a Zero-Loss FX Series Effects Loop:

http://www.davidbrayamps.com/vicjohnson.html

 

[Mailman1971]

Fuck I could nail Evh tones easily with my modded recto.
Same with my PRs Archon and so on. Just tossing a graphic in the eq loop. Tweak it up!!