VHI: Who Does it Best? Metro or Bray?

[controlled_voltage]

after listening to vh for such a long time there's one thing that always strikes me
it's not that distorted or gained up
it's loud as fuck in the room and ed's hands are the rest of the mojo
he really had to push the amp with volume and his playing but these isn't a lot of "distortion' or gain at all
and you can't forget the echoplex preamp and the variac
my 2 cents.

ps
on my phone i have a scorpions virgin killers track next to a vh1 track and the tone is so close

uli was playing a 71 super trem

 

[psychodave]

Add Germino to the list. Greg puts out some great amps.

Do you know what specific model you're referencing for this type of tone? I looked on his website but he doesn't seem to market explicitly to a 68 era plexi for VH?

The Headroom 100 is supposed to be based on an early '68.

This and the Lead 55LV will do what you’re looking for.

This clip sounds a bit weird. Almost like there is a noise gate shunting signal...which is making the bottom end weird or the playing is rushed so that there is no feedback between rests in the song?

 

[psychodave]

after listening to vh for such a long time there's one thing that always strikes me
it's not that distorted or gained up
it's loud as fuck in the room and ed's hands are the rest of the mojo
he really had to push the amp with volume and his playing but these isn't a lot of "distortion' or gain at all
and you can't forget the echoplex preamp and the variac
my 2 cents.

ps
on my phone i have a scorpions virgin killers track next to a vh1 track and the tone is so close

uli was playing a 71 super trem

I agree 100%. Don’t forget he’s using tone sucking MXR pedals that lop off lots of high end and color the tone (to me in a good way).

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

SL68

Yeah I`d say if the OP can play the with EVH vibe that amp would do the trick . Playing with the EVH vibe is the hard part IMO

Seems expensive for what is essentially a superlead clone. Not a knock against Suhr or any of these higher priced amps because they sound good but ultimately the production of the clip and the chops of the player go further than the amp alone. I think the best way to go would be a Ceriatone or Granger (he does clones and his own flavour of hot rodded) and swap a few parts till you get what you want. Remember the most important thing is to get the amp cooking so a PPIMV or attenuator is going to be key. I always forget just how much gain is available when you get that MV up over 5.

PS- another forgotten trick that you can see in the video.. get the treble up and CRANK the presence. With that much gain and the circuit, things get flubby, the presence carves it out nicely.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

It has to have the top end sting for evh... since bogner does everything to get rid of that magical marshall quality, as do the boutique guys, I cant see how it will be what the op is looking for.... but ymmv

Some of those guys look like they are struggling to get the gain and then Phil X shows up and rips some sick leads.... H A N D S

 

[Stradazone]

SL68

Yeah I`d say if the OP can play the with EVH vibe that amp would do the trick . Playing with the EVH vibe is the hard part IMO

This!!!!!!!

The Suhr SL68 has the same tweak in the circuit that EVH's Marshall had plus you have the built in switch that drops it down to 90 volts, other amps mentioned I'm sure are fine but the SL68 is the closest to Ed's magic Marshall

I saw you playing the SL68 live, Al. Do you find the tone changes at band volumes when the amplifier has been rung through a full gig? Yours didn't sound anything like the recordings after being ripped on for hours on stage, is that just poor video recording or something that's actually occurring?

Also, what's this circuit mod you talk about for Ed's marshall, I thought his was stock? Any literature you can PM?

Not sure what show/video you are talking about..?

Ed's tone always sounded different live than in the studio, you'll never achieve the 'studio tone' coming out of your speaker cab, just not going to happen, too many variables, e.q., tape saturation, reverb, Ted Templeman!

Suhr mentioned to me that there's something that may or may have not been stock in EVH's amp which was a small tweak that affected the bass frequencies it also added a tiny bit of gain.

Either way to get the full gain out of a superlead type of amp you need to dime it like Ed did, everything on 10, I do this by using Suhr's Reactive Load then out to another Marshall's effects return or power amp then you would have control over the volume, also a variac at 90 volts a EP-3 echoplex and most importantly as mentioned above play in that style..

 

[marvcus]

It has to have the top end sting for evh... since bogner does everything to get rid of that magical marshall quality, as do the boutique guys, I cant see how it will be what the op is looking for.... but ymmv

Dude, thank you for this. I never post on gear forums anymore, but I logged in to like this and agree.

OP: Get a plexi or some metro clone of one. I was a gear whore for years and stopped a few years back after getting a '69 Super Lead. You will know right away if one
is right or not; turn it up and let it rip.

Good Luck.

 

[LP Freak]

It has to have the top end sting for evh... since bogner does everything to get rid of that magical marshall quality, as do the boutique guys, I cant see how it will be what the op is looking for.... but ymmv

They don’t all sound great on 10 including that one. I bet 8 would’ve sounded a whole lot better.

 

[glpg80]

Not sure what show/video you are talking about..?

Ed's tone always sounded different live than in the studio, you'll never achieve the 'studio tone' coming out of your speaker cab, just not going to happen, too many variables, e.q., tape saturation, reverb, Ted Templeman!

Suhr mentioned to me that there's something that may or may have not been stock in EVH's amp which was a small tweak that affected the bass frequencies it also added a tiny bit of gain.

Either way to get the full gain out of a superlead type of amp you need to dime it like Ed did, everything on 10, I do this by using Suhr's Reactive Load then out to another Marshall's effects return or power amp then you would have control over the volume, also a variac at 90 volts a EP-3 echoplex and most importantly as mentioned above play in that style..

Apparently I don't either. I forgot to link it last night, tried to find it again, and came up empty handed

Thanks for the tips. Yes, not trying to get his record tone live, but trying to get an amplifier that I can turn on and just have fun. I'm sure you can relate to what I'm talking about - I just don't have an amplifier that can cover this tone (at all).

It's a tone that you can't exactly just go buy any marshall that exists and just get. Pedals fall short as well - it's pretty much a whole amplifier package like you've talked about. You just about have to dime the whole amp to get power tube distortion rolling, take that output from a loadbox of some type, and then re-amp it to a useful volume.

You're playing through just run of the mill G12M greenbacks aren't you Al?

 

[glpg80]

They don’t all sound great on 10 including that one. I bet 8 would’ve sounded a whole lot better.

Yeah component tolerances are all over the place for run of the mill stuff used back then. I've heard when stocks were low they would mix and match transformers just to get whatever they could out the door. To cop the VH tone with an actual 68 plexi also introduces problems with paper in film sozos needing to be replaced. The VH tone requires the whole amp tone be taken into consideration, not just the pre-amp. I'd almost rather just buy an amplifier to pay for someone else taking the time to tweak one, than never be happy or tweaking a ceriatone kit of my own or an SLP of some sort that isn't a reissue.

 

[maddnotez]

Add Germino to the list. Greg puts out some great amps.

Do you know what specific model you're referencing for this type of tone? I looked on his website but he doesn't seem to market explicitly to a 68 era plexi for VH?

The Headroom 100 is supposed to be based on an early '68.

This and the Lead 55LV will do what you’re looking for.

This amp would be a great choice.

The original recording probably has a bit more top end sizzle than this, but that is really splitting hairs. Can't go wrong with the Germino if you're after the early VH thing.

Leo is a riot.

I voted Bray because I have never cranked a true plexi and online Bray has the best tones I have ever heard for these kinds of tones next to some random modded marshalls.

 

[Rick Lee]

I built a '68 12000 Metro clone, used ClassicTone and no fancy or exotic components. I had my tech install the Variac switch, as the instructions for that step were too unclear for me. I run a Friedman Dirty Shirley pedal out front with the gain just barely above zero and that amp absolutely slays. I have about $900 into it and can't wait to play it again tomorrow, as soon as Mrs. Lee leaves the house. Man, I love this amp. Here it is in action last year. I think I was using a Freaking Sick 30v pedal in this one.

 

[Racerxrated]

It has to have the top end sting for evh... since bogner does everything to get rid of that magical marshall quality, as do the boutique guys, I cant see how it will be what the op is looking for.... but ymmv

Agreed. Gotta be raw and have that upper mid/high end 'bite'....too many boutique builders seem to like a Marshall tone with the bright cap cut out. Neuter city.
Smooth and dark don't cut it for EVH.

Just get a Marshall NMV.

I did have a Rockstah mod 5 and it sounded like a stock 800 with a touch more gain and some more upper mid harmonic content. Cool amp but not that much different than a stock 800 with a slight boost from a ts9.

 

[psychodave]

Nice clear shot of EVH’s amp. Notice what looks like a Jose master on the back...

I don’t care what amp builders have to say about the magic amp...unless they can prove they were inside the amp between 1978 and 1981.

 

[glpg80]

Nice clear shot of EVH’s amp. Notice what looks like a Jose master on the back...

I don’t care what amp builders have to say about the magic amp...unless they can prove they were inside the amp between 1978 and 1981.

Eddie was always bad about trying to throw people off the trail of how he got his tone. I'm partial to believe the potentiometer in the back is for the bias circuit, or hell, maybe just for looks and nothing more

I think the SL68 gets the closest to the RAW VHI tone, but the Bray 4550 gets the closest to the polished RECORDED tone. I don't have Al's or Ed's hands to do the SL68 any justice, and for equal investment, I can get the Bray deluxe with a few more features to boot like footswitchable masters for live-friendly-ness.

Metro isn't selling any kits anymore, and I'm not sure where the clone is being referenced from as a source, but I'm turning up nothing. I also know I'd be spending a lot of time tweaking the amplifier to try to get it to sound right instead of playing.

 

[Stradazone]

Not sure what show/video you are talking about..?

Ed's tone always sounded different live than in the studio, you'll never achieve the 'studio tone' coming out of your speaker cab, just not going to happen, too many variables, e.q., tape saturation, reverb, Ted Templeman!

Suhr mentioned to me that there's something that may or may have not been stock in EVH's amp which was a small tweak that affected the bass frequencies it also added a tiny bit of gain.

Either way to get the full gain out of a superlead type of amp you need to dime it like Ed did, everything on 10, I do this by using Suhr's Reactive Load then out to another Marshall's effects return or power amp then you would have control over the volume, also a variac at 90 volts a EP-3 echoplex and most importantly as mentioned above play in that style..

Apparently I don't either. I forgot to link it last night, tried to find it again, and came up empty handed

Thanks for the tips. Yes, not trying to get his record tone live, but trying to get an amplifier that I can turn on and just have fun. I'm sure you can relate to what I'm talking about - I just don't have an amplifier that can cover this tone (at all).

It's a tone that you can't exactly just go buy any marshall that exists and just get. Pedals fall short as well - it's pretty much a whole amplifier package like you've talked about. You just about have to dime the whole amp to get power tube distortion rolling, take that output from a loadbox of some type, and then re-amp it to a useful volume.

You're playing through just run of the mill G12M greenbacks aren't you Al?

I had a 4x12 cab with the British Greenbacks and sounded good but sold it since I never use 4x12 cabs anymore..Now I just use a 2x12 EVH cab loaded with the EVH signature greenbacks

 

[lespaul6]

check out this vid from 1984... he is clearly stepping on something to go from the cleanish double stop section to the verse @ 1:32

 

[glpg80]

I don't know what he's stepping on, but damn that live tone is just straight up badass to the bone

They are all just super tight in that vid as well. Impressive.

 

[Exo-metal]

Holy hell that was Ed just killing it...nice clip

 

[Philo Beddoe]

A thread about how to get VH1 tones and not even one of the Seven current EVH amps approved by EVH himself and made under his name made the list

Ed isn't stupid..he knows his early tones, particularly VH1, are his most well known and liked. It seems like at some point he would have went after the "Magic Marshall" tones with a vengeance..I don't get it?