The IIC+reissue goes live Dec. 3rd. $3599

I'm surprised to see so much dislike for the Mark VII.

I haven't played an original 2c+ unfortunately but I have both the jp2c and VII. Played many other III and IV also.

Gor me the VII is amazing. It does require the right power tubes in the right position. Specifically the outer pair.

I don't claim this sound is a perfect representation but I recorded it with a cell phone on purpose. At first it was a joke but it may be useful.

 
Honestly you can get any of these amps to sound great on a recording. Even in the bedroom where you're not pushing a lot of volume. I don't hate the VII at all, I think for a lot of home / studio guys it's a great tool for the job.

The thing is, mics don't pick up feel and how much air an amp is moving. And TBH, this really only matters to the guitar player- *mostly. But, that can be important as for example I am more inspired & play better when an amp hits me in the tone AND the feels. If it doesn't I just don't dig in as hard and things feel flat.

*I will say when I A/Bd the VII in the (loud metal) band, both of my guys complained that the sound was mush, lacked definition, and they couldn't hear me. This was the case in every channel and various settings. I agreed so off it went. Only had the amp 6 days, which is the shortest amount of time I've kept any amp (due to not liking it) aside from the Splawn Nitro that lasted 1. I did a whole series of comparos of the VII to the OGs when it came out. The differences were huge for me, and I respect that they may not be for the next guy.



I think this C+ reissue will settle the debate if modern amps CAN be made to do what vintage amps do. I think it's possible because I really liked the single channel Cali Tweed a lot in terms of feels. Generally speaking I think the simpler the amp, the better the tone. If it doesn't pull it off, IMO it's time to stop trying.
 
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GJgo said:
Honestly you can get any of these amps to sound great on a recording. Even in the bedroom where you're not pushing a lot of volume. I don't hate the VII at all, I think for a lot of home / studio guys it's a great tool for the job.

The thing is, mics don't pick up feel and how much air an amp is moving. And TBH, this really only matters to the guitar player- *mostly. But, that can be important as for example I am more inspired & play better when an amp hits me in the tone AND the feels. If it doesn't I just don't dig in as hard and things feel flat.

*I will say when I A/Bd the VII in the (loud metal) band, both of my guys complained that the sound was mush, lacked definition, and they couldn't hear me. This was the case in every channel and various settings. I agreed so off it went. Only had the amp 6 days, which is the shortest amount of time I've kept any amp (due to not liking it) aside from the Splawn Nitro that lasted 1. I did a whole series of comparos of the VII to the OGs when it came out. The differences were huge for me, and I respect that they may not be for the next guy.



I think this C+ reissue will settle the debate if modern amps CAN be made to do what vintage amps do. I think it's possible because I really liked the single channel Cali Tweed a lot in terms of feels. Generally speaking I think the simpler the map, the better the tone. If it doesn't pull it off, IMO it's time to stop trying.
Click to expand...

Hate to say it but you are right. My buddy has a bunch of older Mesa MKIII and a MKIIC+. I have a few different MKIII’s. I also had a MKV MKVII and of the new amps I only still have the JP2C. Mainly because of the 2 EQ’s.
The newer ones have less dynamics more compression and sound a bit fizzy when you start to turn them up. Maybe the correct word would be thinner. Others have mentioned tubes but I think a bit part were the transformers that had more headroom and didn’t squash the tone at higher volumes.
But there is a difference.
I’ve got one on preorder. I haven’t bought a new amp in years.
Now if you take the fact that Randall is gone and my spider senses tingling. 🤔
 
Tone Junkie said:
Hate to say it but you are right. My buddy has a bunch of older Mesa MKIII and a MKIIC+. I have a few different MKIII’s. I also had a MKV MKVII and of the new amps I only still have the JP2C. Mainly because of the 2 EQ’s.
The newer ones have less dynamics more compression and sound a bit fizzy when you start to turn them up. Maybe the correct word would be thinner. Others have mentioned tubes but I think a bit part were the transformers that had more headroom and didn’t squash the tone at higher volumes.
But there is a difference.
I’ve got one on preorder. I haven’t bought a new amp in years.
Now if you take the fact that Randall is gone and my spider senses tingling. 🤔
Click to expand...
Looks like there's a 10lb difference between an original and the reissue. Most of that difference will be in the transformers. What's a C+ DRG head weigh again?
 
GJgo said:
Honestly you can get any of these amps to sound great on a recording. Even in the bedroom where you're not pushing a lot of volume. I don't hate the VII at all, I think for a lot of home / studio guys it's a great tool for the job.

The thing is, mics don't pick up feel and how much air an amp is moving. And TBH, this really only matters to the guitar player- *mostly. But, that can be important as for example I am more inspired & play better when an amp hits me in the tone AND the feels. If it doesn't I just don't dig in as hard and things feel flat.

*I will say when I A/Bd the VII in the (loud metal) band, both of my guys complained that the sound was mush, lacked definition, and they couldn't hear me. This was the case in every channel and various settings. I agreed so off it went. Only had the amp 6 days, which is the shortest amount of time I've kept any amp (due to not liking it) aside from the Splawn Nitro that lasted 1. I did a whole series of comparos of the VII to the OGs when it came out. The differences were huge for me, and I respect that they may not be for the next guy.



I think this C+ reissue will settle the debate if modern amps CAN be made to do what vintage amps do. I think it's possible because I really liked the single channel Cali Tweed a lot in terms of feels. Generally speaking I think the simpler the map, the better the tone. If it doesn't pull it off, IMO it's time to stop trying.
Click to expand...

All these things you say about the VII I got from just even playing it at my local guitar center, but I can see how in a band context it can be even more exposed

From my experience I agree, there are some exceptions of modern amps that for me get surprisingly close to the qualities I like of being raw and organic, but no Mesa/Boogie IME from the last 20 or so has been one of those examples. The closest to me have been definitely the Alessandro’s, amazingly close yet more hi-fi too, but not metal/hard rock amps. After that I’d say Naylor and Wizard’s, which you’ve played. Even if they weren’t your thing, you gotta admit they got the raw and organic part down at least as good as I’ve heard in a modern high gain amp. Lenz too. In some ways his high octane amp is like a light years better version of what the Badlander should’ve been. I’d actually trust any of these makers to make a good iic+ type amp more than Mesa/Boogie since they can achieve organic, raw sound and feel. Not 100% the way vintage amps have it, but imo close and have their own things going for them vs vintage amps
 
Tone Junkie said:
Hate to say it but you are right. My buddy has a bunch of older Mesa MKIII and a MKIIC+. I have a few different MKIII’s. I also had a MKV MKVII and of the new amps I only still have the JP2C. Mainly because of the 2 EQ’s.
The newer ones have less dynamics more compression and sound a bit fizzy when you start to turn them up. Maybe the correct word would be thinner. Others have mentioned tubes but I think a bit part were the transformers that had more headroom and didn’t squash the tone at higher volumes.
But there is a difference.
I’ve got one on preorder. I haven’t bought a new amp in years.
Now if you take the fact that Randall is gone and my spider senses tingling. 🤔
Click to expand...
It’s not the tubes. I had all JJ’s in my iic+ at one point (and a Rev C and D) and while that’s clearly not ideal those amps still did their thing even with some of the newer Boogie’s I had in the past loaded with great vintage tubes. I’m a huge tube nerd (have over 12 shelves fully stuffed with all sorts of vintage tubes), but IME they’re still more like the icing on the cake
 
I don’t think the modern amps suck. They just sound different. I got a TC50 for a ‘I can’t pass it up deal’. Honestly I was very surprised at how good it sounds.
You rarely hear people talking about them but it’s definitely a keeper for me.
I keep going back and forth on getting one. I may just head to sweetwater and try it out before buying. I’m only a few hours away.
 
Tone Junkie said:
I don’t think the modern amps suck. They just sound different. I got a TC50 for a ‘I can’t pass it up deal’. Honestly I was very surprised at how good it sounds.
You rarely hear people talking about them but it’s definitely a keeper for me.
I keep going back and forth on getting one. I may just head to sweetwater and try it out before buying. I’m only a few hours away.
Click to expand...
I got a tour of Sweetwater. The place is yuge!
 
CDawg said:
Looks like there's a 10lb difference between an original and the reissue. Most of that difference will be in the transformers. What's a C+ DRG head weigh again?
Click to expand...

OG = 40 pounds IIRC.

The transformers will be different because the OG materials/process (iron layers + glue) have been banned by the EPA.
Same reason why so few places make vacuum tubes in the USA. And regardless, the resulting product is different.
 
Wizard of Ozz said:
OG = 40 pounds IIRC.

The transformers will be different because the OG materials/process (iron layers + glue) have been banned by the EPA.
Same reason why so few places make vacuum tubes in the USA. And regardless, the resulting product is different.
Click to expand...
I'll probably be off by a few pounds and I guess it depends on the specific head shell, transformers, etc. in comparison but there will be a weight difference between the amps and most of that difference will be in the transformers. They take the fun out of everything nowadays :(
 
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