20thA XTC Review - about 20 hours in...

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supersonic":l5q6d0gj said:
I've got a 100B also, I've tried the 20th XTC and didn't like it as much as the 100B, the 20th sounds more compressed than the 100B and doesn't have the agressiveness and open feel of the 100B, not to mention the variac. I've just ordered a Marsha BTW. I like the higher mid voicing and more immediate response, not better just different.

Interesting. Is the 20th tighter than the 101B though? Like somewhere in between the 101 & 100?

At least I'm hoping the 20th is somewhere in between the two.. Some squish, but a less grainy
preamp section.

I actually really like the variac on the 100B, in fact I mostly use it with the variac!

The Fish -> 101b added immediacy to the attack, but the gain remained smooth. I really liked it.
I think I just need to drive down to LA to try the Marsha.
 
bognerman":4yshkkeh said:
supersonic":4yshkkeh said:
I've got a 100B also, I've tried the 20th XTC and didn't like it as much as the 100B, the 20th sounds more compressed than the 100B and doesn't have the agressiveness and open feel of the 100B, not to mention the variac. I've just ordered a Marsha BTW. I like the higher mid voicing and more immediate response, not better just different.

Interesting. Is the 20th tighter than the 101B though? Like somewhere in between the 101 & 100?

At least I'm hoping the 20th is somewhere in between the two.. Some squish, but a less grainy
preamp section.

I actually really like the variac on the 100B, in fact I mostly use it with the variac!

The Fish -> 101b added immediacy to the attack, but the gain remained smooth. I really liked it.
I think I just need to drive down to LA to try the Marsha.
Yes I think the 20th falls somewhere in the middle, I realy like the clean channel on the 20th too.
I've been running my 100B on "Old" style with the variac on and "L" speaker excursion. Sounds nothing like any other Bogner.
I didn't have the option of trying out a Marsha, only the reports and clips I've heard.
 
supersonic":3rt8qib7 said:
Yes I think the 20th falls somewhere in the middle, I realy like the clean channel on the 20th too.
I've been running my 100B on "Old" style with the variac on and "L" speaker excursion. Sounds nothing like any other Bogner.
I didn't have the option of trying out a Marsha, only the reports and clips I've heard.

I always run the "L" excursion too, "T" is WAY too thin.
I'm torn between "Old" and "New" on the back though.
I also usually set "Air" to LOW on the front.

Still sounds like the 20th may be right up my alley though. Now to find one!

The red channel on the 101 can sound absolutely awesome,
but for whatever reason I'm less impressed by the Blue and Green
compared to the 100B.
 
bognerman":1iaemcgg said:
supersonic":1iaemcgg said:
I've got a 100B also, I've tried the 20th XTC and didn't like it as much as the 100B, the 20th sounds more compressed than the 100B and doesn't have the agressiveness and open feel of the 100B, not to mention the variac. I've just ordered a Marsha BTW. I like the higher mid voicing and more immediate response, not better just different.

Interesting. Is the 20th tighter than the 101B though? Like somewhere in between the 101 & 100?

At least I'm hoping the 20th is somewhere in between the two.. Some squish, but a less grainy
preamp section.

Yeah, it is somewhere in between. I liked the 100b, but it was a bit too grainy for me and could have had more of a singing lead tone...had a 101b and found it almost too squishy and a bit sluggish in response. The 20th (w/ 34's) is perfect for me...
 
se7en":3bcc6o1y said:
bognerman":3bcc6o1y said:
supersonic":3bcc6o1y said:
I've got a 100B also, I've tried the 20th XTC and didn't like it as much as the 100B, the 20th sounds more compressed than the 100B and doesn't have the agressiveness and open feel of the 100B, not to mention the variac. I've just ordered a Marsha BTW. I like the higher mid voicing and more immediate response, not better just different.

Interesting. Is the 20th tighter than the 101B though? Like somewhere in between the 101 & 100?

At least I'm hoping the 20th is somewhere in between the two.. Some squish, but a less grainy
preamp section.

Yeah, it is somewhere in between. I liked the 100b, but it was a bit too grainy for me and could have had more of a singing lead tone...had a 101b and found it almost too squishy and a bit sluggish in response. The 20th (w/ 34's) is perfect for me...

It's the 34's that put it into this league of its own IMHO. It rips like none other...and has a snarl to it totally open and sustained.

V.
 
cml694":2xgodb00 said:
I want bad.....but the Herbert stays! :rock:

Totally different amps so there'd be no reason to get rid of Herby...

Remember, this 20thA is a completely different beast with EL34's in it - it's un-fkn-believable. Why Bogner didn't go this route to start with is beyond me, the 6L6's are great, sure - but they're not knock-yer-socks-off material like the 34's.

Still to this day, hour, minute, completely amazed and entranced with the tones this 20thA is capable of... My Diezel's collecting dust :dunno:

V.
 
So here's the real question V. For someone like myself who needs to buy ONE amp and have it do a bit of everything and do it well...what amp??? Remember that I don't have the income to buy one and then another two years later.

Honeymoon phase aside, if you started from scratch with no amps and had to buy one to cover a lot of ground, would you go VH4, Einstein, 20th XTC w/el34's, tricked out Friedman or Fortin Marshall or other??? Don't you love all these questions? :lol: :LOL:
 
glassjaw7":3af31urs said:
So here's the real question V. For someone like myself who needs to buy ONE amp and have it do a bit of everything and do it well...what amp??? Remember that I don't have the income to buy one and then another two years later.

Honeymoon phase aside, if you started from scratch with no amps and had to buy one to cover a lot of ground, would you go VH4, Einstein, 20th XTC w/el34's, tricked out Friedman or Fortin Marshall or other??? Don't you love all these questions? :lol: :LOL:

It's a totally awesome question... I would avoid the tricked out anythings - the reason for this is to me, and in my experience, modded amps, much like hotrods, have a more defined scope - hence the reason they were mods to begin with. The real question I have to answer here is pretty simple - the VH4(S) is by far one of the most amazing, versatile, quality laden amps I've ever, ever had the pleasure of playing let alone owning. I've had 4 iterations of this amp - 3 x VH4 and 1 x VH4S (if my memory serves me correct). It is by far, SUMS above other amps, and not for the reasons many people think - it's not JUST because of Channel 3, it's because its clears and cleans and crunches and means are all top-drawer, amazing tonal offerings. It's just hands down one of the best from clean to scream. James Lugo summed it up perfectly in a post somewhere else in this RT world - it's versatile and what it does, it does perfectly. The 20thA is, and this is my saying, the "Swiss Army knife" of amps. It can be a lot of amps within an amp - it can cover a ton ground, it DRIPS with tone...and, honestly, ya can't make a bad note come from it anywhere in the entire range of what it offers. It's a masterpiece. I wouldn't be able to choose JUST ONE of these amps, they're simply masters of their class. But the difference is, Diezel's VH4 has a signature tone that's really prevalent whenever the gain structure moves into the sound...it's all Diezel. It's not a plexi-wannabe, it's not a bassman wannabe, it's not a Marsha or a Splawn or a Cameron or anything else wannabe - it's a DIEZEL. And IF that Diezel tone is what tickles yer nuts, then the VH4 is by far the bees knees. BUT!!! If a wide range of awesome tones with a somewhat less "prevalent" tone is something you seek, than the 20thA is the cats pajamas 100%. Don't flame on me here dudes - the 20thA DOES have tone and man, as mentioned, it DRIPS with amazing tone - it's SICK!!!! But I can get a lot of 'other' amp sounds out of it too - sorta like some of the aforementioned ones... And if that's your thang, then the 20thA is going to rock yer pants off. Just do yerseff a favor and get the EL34 version :D

Hope this makes your choosing a little easier. For years worth of discovery? I'd go with the 20thA. For a prevalent signature tone and 100% perfection in that tone, providing it's the tone you seek and desire, the V is the Mighty Kahuna!!

Peace Y'All,
V.
 
Ventura":gfkh53cw said:
Just do yerseff a favor and get the EL34 version :D

V.
I can see I am going to have to get the White 20thA in EL34 just to set on top of my 6L6 version and A/B them :doh: Thanks! :gethim:
 
It really does sound like a Kick ass amp though! :rock:

Would love to check one out...... :thumbsup:
 
jlbaxe":209olh50 said:
Ventura":209olh50 said:
Just do yerseff a favor and get the EL34 version :D

V.
I can see I am going to have to get the White 20thA in EL34 just to set on top of my 6L6 version and A/B them :doh: Thanks! :gethim:
We need comparison clips. Same guitar, same cables, same settings, same playing :D
 
Well, from Bogner HQ the overall consensus is:

6L6 is brighter in the cleans, and perhaps more shimmer; more 80's in the gain; and overall good compression in the higher gains.
EL34 is more mid growly, has the signature Bogner "chewiness", loaded with overtones and harmonics, the cleans are a bit more classic with an edge (not as Vox/Fender like, if you will), and the gain to higher gain is all 100% pure overkill gnarliness.

Not to mention, that extra 20W of power tube handling is noticeable too...

Call me biased, but I had the choice of a 6L6 ready to ship, or a 2 to 3 month wait for an EL34 version. I opted for the latter.

No Regrets,
V.
 
Ventura":2ih8ytnr said:
Well, from Bogner HQ the overall consensus is:

6L6 is brighter in the cleans, and perhaps more shimmer; more 80's in the gain; and overall good compression in the higher gains.
EL34 is more mid growly, has the signature Bogner "chewiness", loaded with overtones and harmonics, the cleans are a bit more classic with an edge (not as Vox/Fender like, if you will), and the gain to higher gain is all 100% pure overkill gnarliness.

Not to mention, that extra 20W of power tube handling is noticeable too...

Call me biased, but I had the choice of a 6L6 ready to ship, or a 2 to 3 month wait for an EL34 version. I opted for the latter.

No Regrets,
V.
Sounds like the 6L6 version is able to cover a little more ground, where the EL34s are more specific in application but possibly more proficient? I'd go for EL34s myself, but I'd imagine both versions are incredible!
 
Ventura":pwyhqqhj said:
glassjaw7":pwyhqqhj said:
So here's the real question V. For someone like myself who needs to buy ONE amp and have it do a bit of everything and do it well...what amp??? Remember that I don't have the income to buy one and then another two years later.

Honeymoon phase aside, if you started from scratch with no amps and had to buy one to cover a lot of ground, would you go VH4, Einstein, 20th XTC w/el34's, tricked out Friedman or Fortin Marshall or other??? Don't you love all these questions? :lol: :LOL:

It's a totally awesome question... I would avoid the tricked out anythings - the reason for this is to me, and in my experience, modded amps, much like hotrods, have a more defined scope - hence the reason they were mods to begin with. The real question I have to answer here is pretty simple - the VH4(S) is by far one of the most amazing, versatile, quality laden amps I've ever, ever had the pleasure of playing let alone owning. I've had 4 iterations of this amp - 3 x VH4 and 1 x VH4S (if my memory serves me correct). It is by far, SUMS above other amps, and not for the reasons many people think - it's not JUST because of Channel 3, it's because its clears and cleans and crunches and means are all top-drawer, amazing tonal offerings. It's just hands down one of the best from clean to scream. James Lugo summed it up perfectly in a post somewhere else in this RT world - it's versatile and what it does, it does perfectly. The 20thA is, and this is my saying, the "Swiss Army knife" of amps. It can be a lot of amps within an amp - it can cover a ton ground, it DRIPS with tone...and, honestly, ya can't make a bad note come from it anywhere in the entire range of what it offers. It's a masterpiece. I wouldn't be able to choose JUST ONE of these amps, they're simply masters of their class. But the difference is, Diezel's VH4 has a signature tone that's really prevalent whenever the gain structure moves into the sound...it's all Diezel. It's not a plexi-wannabe, it's not a bassman wannabe, it's not a Marsha or a Splawn or a Cameron or anything else wannabe - it's a DIEZEL. And IF that Diezel tone is what tickles yer nuts, then the VH4 is by far the bees knees. BUT!!! If a wide range of awesome tones with a somewhat less "prevalent" tone is something you seek, than the 20thA is the cats pajamas 100%. Don't flame on me here dudes - the 20thA DOES have tone and man, as mentioned, it DRIPS with amazing tone - it's SICK!!!! But I can get a lot of 'other' amp sounds out of it too - sorta like some of the aforementioned ones... And if that's your thang, then the 20thA is going to rock yer pants off. Just do yerseff a favor and get the EL34 version :D

Hope this makes your choosing a little easier. For years worth of discovery? I'd go with the 20thA. For a prevalent signature tone and 100% perfection in that tone, providing it's the tone you seek and desire, the V is the Mighty Kahuna!!

Peace Y'All,
V.
Well put sir, well put! Thanks.
 
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