2x12 Cabs don’t get enough credit

[glpg80]

Apologies, I was actually asking about what speakers for non metal/non high gain. Sorry, my post was a bit all over the place. I was saying I use my 4x12s for high gain and was looking for something for clean to use with the 2x12s if that makes sense. I have most of the speakers you mentioned, not sure exactly which ones/cones/variants, but I was mostly looking for something clean to compliment my jtm or twin reverb to use in them. Was thinking alnico ones could be cool?

Thats a TGP question. We do metal here.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

Thats a TGP question. We do metal here.

Aware, and I'm on board as much as anyone here.
I was just asking your thoughts because I know you have experience with a lot of different gear.
I don't have any tan pants or skirts, so I keep getting banned from tgp before I could ask.
Anyways, not really important, just throwing it out into the universe, I suppose.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Do you have any recommendations on speakers for clean/edge of breakup? They had eminence legends and t-75 then I switched out for greenbacks in one and creamback/v30 in the other, but not really getting what I'm after for them as I use my 4x12s for high gain and these with my jtm45. I almost bought a 4x12 cab that had all celestion rubies in it because it was cheap I think around $400? But I missed out by lollygagging too much. Didn't really want the cab though, just the speakers.

I have an avatar classic 2x12 that currently has scumback bm75’s that I really like. Super punchy but kinda narrow. nice mic’d but dont really fill out the room.
The scumback h75pvc and m75pvc (both 65 watt) pair was my favorite for a fuller sound.

I just like scumbacks

 

[glpg80]

Aware, and I'm on board as much as anyone here.
I was just asking your thoughts because I know you have experience with a lot of different gear.
I don't have any tan pants or skirts, so I keep getting banned from tgp before I could ask.
Anyways, not really important, just throwing it out into the universe, I suppose.

Comments appreciated but I tune my rigs for the heavy rhythm the cleans just need to work. I own nothing tan pants approved beyond possibly the Bogner XTC.

If going off of hypotheticals only I’d look at the alnico offerings from Weber if I wanted to get a clean only speaker setup going. The smaller the wattage the easier it is to move the cone at a lower volume. Use that to judge how much sensitivity you want at the level you want to play. I prefer a larger headroom speaker for cleans because in my experience it takes way more volume clean wise to keep up with the high gain stuff since the clean preamp can’t be overdriven - so you’re relying on a serious power side to do the volume lifting and as such you’ll need a speaker that is properly rated to handle it to get that on the edge breakup and not already broken up or still stiff and lifeless.

 

[* velcro-fly *]

Do you have any recommendations on speakers for clean/edge of breakup? They had eminence legends and t-75 then I switched out for greenbacks in one and creamback/v30 in the other, but not really getting what I'm after for them as I use my 4x12s for high gain and these with my jtm45. I almost bought a 4x12 cab that had all celestion rubies in it because it was cheap I think around $400? But I missed out by lollygagging too much. Didn't really want the cab though, just the speakers.

My Mather vert 2x12 that's rear oval ported has a Celestion Blue / G12H30 combo in it that is magic in the edge of breakup, rootsy dirty thing. For example, the Allesandro speaker in my 3rd Power Wooly Coats combo sucks...Run that amp into the just mentioned cab and its unreal. You can get away with a bit more power because of the G12H30 in the mix but I wouldn't push it too hard as the Blue is a low wattage speaker on its own but damn does this cab sound good. A JTM45 would prob sound awesome in it.

 

[Speeddemon]

You want the ones used in angle 4x12s as the bass cones sound like straight ass. I owned one and learned that lesson the hard way.

Yep, cones need to have a white stamp on the outside, saying '1777'. Those are the 'Lead' cones. The '444' cones are the bass cones and typically sound too dark, round, smooth.
Same with vintage G12K-85's. The other difference is that the 444 cones are not ribbed when looking from the front.
I had one of those when I was collecting a bunch and it must have been a keyboard amp's speaker or something. It would be fine if you play thick wooly sounding jazz or sludge perhaps, but if you want any notion of crunch and kerrang, pass!

 

[DanTravis62]

If you mean the 1965A or B from Marshall, those were 24" wide 4x10" cabs.

Had the A and B version of those, while I also had the 1966A (2x12" diagonal) and a 1966B (which actually was a converted 1965B with a new Siberian birch baffle).
The 4x10"s (G10L-35 speakers) had a nice tone, quite smooth and punchy, so they helped shaving some of the bitey nature of my 5150III 50W and I gigged with them too. But in the end, I preferred the bigger push of the 12" speakers, so I sold those both and kept the 1966s.
I mostly gig with a Mesa Vertical 2x12 (G12-65 in the top, Mesa V30+beamblocker in bottom), which gives me the right balance of tone and portability. But I hate the look of the 'T' as well, so I don't use it with a full size head.

I agree, the 10" speakers actually sounded really good, I just preferred to switch to 12''s more because i'm used to it.

The 1965/1966 series are so ridiculously light, easy to schlep around, and excellent sounding, I think they are super underrated.

I mostly use it with my super lightweight kemper rig (literally just a kemper rack and a rocktron 2x50 stereo power amp) or one of my various pedalboard and practice amps.

I have scumback bm75ld's in it and it sounds absolutely monstrous and weighs almost nothing

Honestly as good as it sounds, it pales in comparison to my 4x12 though. I have a redplate 1960a copy that's the same dimensions but the wood is twice as thick and it's basically halfway between a 1960 and a mesa OS, or maybe a mesa os in a 1960s clothing. That thing is bestial.

 

[legend71]

The big bogner OS 2x12 is great. It’s not much smaller than a traditional 4x12 cab though

I juts got one of these this year. It sounds awesome but it is big lol. But that is price I pay I suppose ha.

 

[ewill52]

Apologies, I was actually asking about what speakers for non metal/non high gain. Sorry, my post was a bit all over the place. I was saying I use my 4x12s for high gain and was looking for something for clean to use with the 2x12s if that makes sense. I have most of the speakers you mentioned, not sure exactly which ones/cones/variants, but I was mostly looking for something clean to compliment my jtm or twin reverb to use in them. Was thinking alnico ones could be cool?

Alnico blues for the lower wattage. Bandmate has them in an AC30 and they sound spectacular. I've got an Alnico gold in my Deluxe Reverb and it's really really good. I like metal but most of the stuff I play live is more outlaw country\southern rock so my live rig rarely dips into the high-gain side. I use my Avatar 212 like the one you have on the bottom of your pic most of the time live. It's loaded with a V30\G12H. The Celestion Creamback is also a popular one for more vintage vibe.

 

[jabps]

The avatar 2x12 is on par with the Bogner OS 2x12 and both sound amazing.

I’ve heard a lot about the Gflex ported 2x12 cabinets but never played or heard one in person.

The GFlex was the biggest sounding 2x12 I've owned or heard. Back in the day I was gigging so much and we'd do some small clubs every now and then and I wanted the option to travel lighter with the GFlex, wrong lol. Still great sounding 2x12. I did some recordings with it as well, heaviest tones I ever laid down was done with a JSX, 5150 cab and the GFlex. The engineer even put a mic on the ports lol. From a sound perspective I should have kept it but in all seriousness it was as heavy and cumbersome as a 4x12 so it really negated the whole idea of lighter/smaller.

My main cab now is a Bogner OS with V30 and GH30Anni's. Still big for a 2x12 but much easier to move than a 4x12.

 

[rsm]

For cleans, I purchased a pair of Celestion Century G12 speakers (not the Century Vintage), the non-Vintage Century G12 speakers were discontinued. They're neo magnets, with 102 dB sensitivity, rated at 80W each, so they will stay clean in most circumstances.

Whatever speakers are in my '76 Super Twin have to stay pretty clean for awhile before breakup, and withstanding the full 180W.


edit: here are the full specs and description of the Celestion G12 Neo (non-Vintage) https://www.zzounds.com/item--CELCNEO12

 

[glpg80]

Yep, cones need to have a white stamp on the outside, saying '1777'. Those are the 'Lead' cones. The '444' cones are the bass cones and typically sound too dark, round, smooth.
Same with vintage G12K-85's. The other difference is that the 444 cones are not ribbed when looking from the front.
I had one of those when I was collecting a bunch and it must have been a keyboard amp's speaker or something. It would be fine if you play thick wooly sounding jazz or sludge perhaps, but if you want any notion of crunch and kerrang, pass!

I heard ages ago that there’s actually three versions of the 65. A lead, a bass, and a version made in some cabinets that’s another type of Tom foolery. If you go searching in the forum I was trying to figure out why my 65 loaded cabinet sounded so bad and it’s in there.

I also didn’t know that vented G12-T75’s seem to share similar build design to lead type 1777 cone G12-65’s. I honestly wish someone would do a comparison of the two.

 

[Devin]

If I'm heading out for a random jam with the boys I'll grab my 2x12 or (more likely) my 1x12 for convenience sake, but i'll still always prefer my 4x12's no matter what

 

[metalmm785]

The GFlex was the biggest sounding 2x12 I've owned or heard. Back in the day I was gigging so much and we'd do some small clubs every now and then and I wanted the option to travel lighter with the GFlex, wrong lol. Still great sounding 2x12. I did some recordings with it as well, heaviest tones I ever laid down was done with a JSX, 5150 cab and the GFlex. The engineer even put a mic on the ports lol. From a sound perspective I should have kept it but in all seriousness it was as heavy and cumbersome as a 4x12 so it really negated the whole idea of lighter/smaller.

My main cab now is a Bogner OS with V30 and GH30Anni's. Still big for a 2x12 but much easier to move than a 4x12.

At some point, I had two g-flex 2x12s stacked on top of each other and the amount of bass that they put out was something that you had to hear first-hand. I think the only other cab that could compete was the Krankenstein 4x12 since it is also ported.

The G-Flex is big for a 2x12 and heavy as hell, but at least they were smart enough to put good metal handles on both sides of the cab instead of the single top handle.

 

[NewWorldMan]

Always been a fan of 4X12s for gigs. Cartage fees aren’t a concern, and 4X12s are almost easier to move around despite the extra weight. Most of them have casters and double over as a dolly while you’re pushing other gear. Lifting or carrying is done by more than 1 person. A lot of the horizontal 2X12s don’t have casters, so you’re either carrying them by yourself or bringing a dolly for them which oftentimes defeats the purpose of saving space.

That said, I like the different flavor of a 2X12, or even 1X12s. Have one of those here here as well which sounds great.

 

[Speeddemon]

I also didn’t know that vented G12-T75’s seem to share similar build design to lead type 1777 cone G12-65’s. I honestly wish someone would do a comparison of the two.

Yeah, apparently the only difference between the earliest vented T75's and G65's is the former material; kapton or glass fiber.

@DanTravis62 is your 1965 a slanted or straight cab? My converted one (1965B-->1966B) is the straight one and it's definitely the fuller sounding of the two, even after testing both with vintage T75's each.
Sound/weight ratio they're really hard to beat and when I'm speaker swapping for tests and with my face on speaker height, the 1966B sounds so awesome for recording too.

I have another 2x12 cab; some Polish company custom made it, I bought it used and empty and this one has just slightly bigger dimensions than the 1966A/B cabs and weighs probably 20-30% more; this one is about 25" x 25" and I got some dense (40kg/m3) absorption material for it and lines all the insides AND the backplate(s).
This cab now (with a G12-65 and vented T75 combo) does the big, gut-punching Recto-thing even more than my 4x12. It's borderline too much and I'd probably piss off most bass players (and my neighbours already ) with this.

I'm still hoping to find a used, empty, broken grillcloth 1966A or B, so I can put some checkerboard grill cloth on it and throw in a pair of my pre Rola G12-H30 55Hz for vintage Greenbacky goodness. This custom cab has been done too nice to remove that grill cloth...

 

[DanTravis62]

Yeah, apparently the only difference between the earliest vented T75's and G65's is the former material; kapton or glass fiber.

@DanTravis62 is your 1965 a slanted or straight cab? My converted one (1965B-->1966B) is the straight one and it's definitely the fuller sounding of the two, even after testing both with vintage T75's each.
Sound/weight ratio they're really hard to beat and when I'm speaker swapping for tests and with my face on speaker height, the 1966B sounds so awesome for recording too.

I have another 2x12 cab; some Polish company custom made it, I bought it used and empty and this one has just slightly bigger dimensions than the 1966A/B cabs and weighs probably 20-30% more; this one is about 25" x 25" and I got some dense (40kg/m3) absorption material for it and lines all the insides AND the backplate(s).
This cab now (with a G12-65 and vented T75 combo) does the big, gut-punching Recto-thing even more than my 4x12. It's borderline too much and I'd probably piss off most bass players (and my neighbours already ) with this.

I'm still hoping to find a used, empty, broken grillcloth 1966A or B, so I can put some checkerboard grill cloth on it and throw in a pair of my pre Rola G12-H30 55Hz for vintage Greenbacky goodness. This custom cab has been done too nice to remove that grill cloth...

Mine is a a 1965b - I thought that straight cab sounded significantly better than the angled as well. Funnily enough, I've run the scumback bm75lds in it - which are a (drumroll) large dustcap copy of g12-65s, hah.

It's funny because i've tried a bunch of speakers in it and that's just what works, by far

 

[thegame]

4x12, 2x12, 1x12 sound drastically different under the mic, given the same speakers and general cab materials/construction. If you can't hear this difference then I give up:

best isolated examples: 4:45 min:

 

[Devin]

Many men have been known to hop poles

 

[mchn13]

I have a pair of old peavey cabs at one rehearsal spot wit two speaker holes blocked diagonally, and 2-swamp thangs in one, and 2-wgs vet30’s in it and would put those oversized (“2x12’s) against 4x12’s all day. They kick like a mule, and a slight weight savings lol.