Aeroic, Did You Wire Up The AxeFx/M4 yet?

[dfrattaroli]

I've finished building all my cables but I had to order one custom from LavaCable for a "Y" out of one of the GCX loops. I should have it in a day or so. I was just curious what wiring method you used and if you had any grounding issues. I have my WDW set up like this:

I'm not sure the DD-20 will remain in the rig. I used it simply because I have it and thought it'd be cool to have it there if I could come up with something specific for it.

Dave

 

[aeroic]

so i did some wiring of my rig, and I am having some ground loop problems for sure w/ my M4. I have talked to Dave F about it, and I'm just going bite the bullet and send him my rig, a 10 space rack, and have him go at it.

I'm gonna have him build me a rig next. Gonna put it in a Indy Case 9-space rack with shockmounts like this one:

The AxeFX rocks man. Totally dig it!!!!

here are my specs I sent to dave

My rig would consist of:

Furman Power Regulator (1-space)
AxeFX (2-space)
VHT 2/90/2 (2-space)
Egnater M4 (2-space)
Voodoo GCX (1-space)

Total of 8 spaces in a 10-space rack (for proximity issues). I will be having Indy case build me a shockmount X-frame case with hideaway doors.

Here's what I want to be able to do.

GCX loop 1 - AxeFX front end (for pedal / amp sims)
GCX Loop 2 - M4 preamp
GCX Loop 3 - Mod50 preamp
GCX Loop 4 - Mod50 power
GCX Loop 5 - VHT 2902 Power Left
GCX Loop 6 - VHT 2902 Power Right

On the patch panel I would like:

Pedal board Guitar in
TRS Pedal in (to go to the AxeFX Pedal 1)
Pedalboard MIDI in
Pedalboard Power (the power on the pedalboard is 3-prong male connector)
Mod50 Preamp Send
Mod50 Preamp Return
Mod50 Power amp Send
Mod50 Power Supply
Mod50 MIDI Out
Speaker Out L (from VHT 2902 L)
Speaker Out R (from VHT 2902 R)

I want to be able to use my Mod50 1x12 combo if I want for BMAN / COD type sounds and have a speaker that works really well for that, and then use the VHT 2/90/2 for my mid-gain to high-gain stuff, and use a different setup for that.

Eric

 

[Klark]

dfrattaroli, even though you have 2 spare loops already, you're wasting a loop by wiring it up that way. Also, your M4 tone can never be delayed and hit your wet cabs with the way you have it wired. Are you planning on running the M4 and the Axe at the same time, cuz that's what it looks like? I'll post more after I get an idea what trying to do.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see the Y cable routing your M4 back into in2 on your Axe. I see what you're doing now. Interesting, but I still don't believe you'd need the 2nd loop..

 

[dfrattaroli]

dfrattaroli, even though you have 2 spare loops already, you're wasting a loop by wiring it up that way. Also, your M4 tone can never be delayed and hit your wet cabs with the way you have it wired. Are you planning on running the M4 and the Axe at the same time, cuz that's what it looks like? I'll post more after I get an idea what trying to do.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see the Y cable routing your M4 back into in2 on your Axe. I see what you're doing now. Interesting, but I still don't believe you'd need the 2nd loop..

Hey Klark, which loop are you referring to? I'm curious to know how you'd do it. I've considered 2 methods and this one is based on a couple of posts I've exchanged with Dave F. Would you not have the Axe and M4 in separate loops?

Thanks man.

Dave

 

[aeroic]

dfrattaroli, even though you have 2 spare loops already, you're wasting a loop by wiring it up that way. Also, your M4 tone can never be delayed and hit your wet cabs with the way you have it wired. Are you planning on running the M4 and the Axe at the same time, cuz that's what it looks like? I'll post more after I get an idea what trying to do.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see the Y cable routing your M4 back into in2 on your Axe. I see what you're doing now. Interesting, but I still don't believe you'd need the 2nd loop..

Hey Klark, which loop are you referring to? I'm curious to know how you'd do it. I've considered 2 methods and this one is based on a couple of posts I've exchanged with Dave F. Would you not have the Axe and M4 in separate loops?

Thanks man.

Dave

I think you are fine with the way you have it setup man.

 

[aeroic]

I know that Dave F recommends putting the Amp Sims / pedals of the AxeFX and the other preamps in different loops based on his findings related specifically to the AxeFX. That's what he recommended me also.

I would want it that way too, just to keep everything separate.

Eric

 

[dfrattaroli]

aeoric, I assume you made your own cables. Do you have an idea where your ground loops were? From your post it seems the issue was with the M4. I haven't fired my rig up yet and assume I will also have issues like that. All the cables I made have the shield attached at both ends. I'm expecting that I may have to take some of them and disconnect the shield on one side. We'll see.

Also, did you put washers in between the gear and the rack rails?

Dave

 

[aeroic]

aeoric, I assume you made your own cables. Do you have an idea where your ground loops were? From your post it seems the issue was with the M4. I haven't fired my rig up yet and assume I will also have issues like that. All the cables I made have the shield attached at both ends. I'm expecting that I may have to take some of them and disconnect the shield on one side. We'll see.

Also, did you put washers in between the gear and the rack rails?

Dave

I didn't rack everything up when I did this. I used Mogami cables to hook things up. From talking to Dave, he recommends putting an iso-box in front of and out of the AxeFX to eliminate ground loops. This is what he has had to do for Peter Thorn's rig and Brad's rig. I had some hum that is caused by the AxeFX. If I run the M4 right into my VHT, things are really quiet. I just want the best sounding rig possible, and that will be the case when I get Dave to do my rig

Eric

 

[Klark]

I thought you were trying to do something different. When I get an Axe-Fx, I was going to do it a little differently, but the way you have it should be fine.

As far as everything being separate, nothing is truly separate because nothing is iso'd, at this point. If Dave recommends using iso's, I'd venture to say that he's right because no pro like Dave would recommend an iso unless it was truly needed. They're expensive, eat up space, and most of all they change tone & dynamics, too me anyway. Not too mention they're really just a band-aid, not a true fix to the problem.

And don't waste your time those silly plastic washers, they're a gimmick, and I've proved that on countless sound install jobs and dozens of guitar rigs. Dave has mentioned in a number of threads that he doesn't use them either, neither does Bradshaw. The only thing you might have to do is cut the shield on one side of your Y cable, and/or flip the ground lift switch on your M4. I'd try those two things before spending the money on the iso's.

 

[aeroic]

I thought you were trying to do something different. When I get an Axe-Fx, I was going to do it a little differently, but the way you have it should be fine.

As far as everything being separate, nothing is truly separate because nothing is iso'd, at this point. If Dave recommends using iso's, I'd venture to say that he's right because no pro like Dave would recommend an iso unless it was truly needed. They're expensive, eat up space, and most of all they change tone & dynamics, too me anyway. Not too mention they're really just a band-aid, not a true fix to the problem.

And don't waste your time those silly plastic washers, they're a gimmick, and I've proved that on countless sound install jobs and dozens of guitar rigs. Dave has mentioned in a number of threads that he doesn't use them either, neither does Bradshaw. The only thing you might have to do is cut the shield on one side of your Y cable, and/or flip the ground lift switch on your M4. I'd try those two things before spending the money on the iso's.

Well...I take Dave's recommendations very seriously. He's built more AxeFX rigs than I have...and has done rigs for a lot of people that have even higher standards for tone than I do (i.e. Peter Thorn). I don't think Dave would be recommending them as "band-aids" but to fix a problem with a piece of gear. His goal with every rig he designs is to make it as quiet as possible so you don't have to use a gate at all. For the iso's he's using..they aren't that expensive...like $50 a piece.

Eric

 

[Fallout Labs]

The only thing you might have to do is cut the shield on one side of your Y cable, and/or flip the ground lift switch on your M4. I'd try those two things before spending the money on the iso's.

cutting the shield on a cable is more band-aid than using iso transformers

 

[Klark]

Relax Eric, no one every said anything about not taking Dave seriously. In fact I said quite the opposite.

And I'm not sure if you understand an iso, but no matter what level of audio you come from, they're a band-aid. No debate necessary. I can't speak for Dave, but I'm quite sure he's wire up countless guitar rigs with multiple preamps, and probably has rarely been forced to use iso's. That being said, in an Axe-Fx equipped rig, there's obviously something in Fractal's choice of ground-scheme design that's causing the issue. At that point you have two options; One, open your Axe-Fx, remove every stitch of ground path from along the boards, which is most likely the problem because the designer intended it to be used solely by itself. Or two, use an iso band-aid.

cutting the shield on a cable is more band-aid than using iso transformers

Obviously you don't understand basic electronics so I'm not even going to bother..

 

[muudrock]

Relax Eric, no one every said anything about not taking Dave seriously. In fact I said quite the opposite.

And I'm not sure if you understand an iso, but no matter what level of audio you come from, they're a band-aid. No debate necessary. I can't speak for Dave, but I'm quite sure he's wire up countless guitar rigs with multiple preamps, and probably has rarely been forced to use iso's. That being said, in an Axe-Fx equipped rig, there's obviously something in Fractal's choice of ground-scheme design that's causing the issue. At that point you have two options; One, open your Axe-Fx, remove every stitch of ground path from along the boards, which is most likely the problem because the designer intended it to be used solely by itself. Or two, use an iso band-aid.

cutting the shield on a cable is more band-aid than using iso transformers

Obviously you don't understand basic electronics so I'm not even going to bother..

 

[richedie]

so i did some wiring of my rig, and I am having some ground loop problems for sure w/ my M4. I have talked to Dave F about it, and I'm just going bite the bullet and send him my rig, a 10 space rack, and have him go at it.

I'm gonna have him build me a rig next. Gonna put it in a Indy Case 9-space rack with shockmounts like this one:

The AxeFX rocks man. Totally dig it!!!!

here are my specs I sent to dave

My rig would consist of:

Furman Power Regulator (1-space)
AxeFX (2-space)
VHT 2/90/2 (2-space)
Egnater M4 (2-space)
Voodoo GCX (1-space)

Total of 8 spaces in a 10-space rack (for proximity issues). I will be having Indy case build me a shockmount X-frame case with hideaway doors.

Here's what I want to be able to do.

GCX loop 1 - AxeFX front end (for pedal / amp sims)
GCX Loop 2 - M4 preamp
GCX Loop 3 - Mod50 preamp
GCX Loop 4 - Mod50 power
GCX Loop 5 - VHT 2902 Power Left
GCX Loop 6 - VHT 2902 Power Right

On the patch panel I would like:

Pedal board Guitar in
TRS Pedal in (to go to the AxeFX Pedal 1)
Pedalboard MIDI in
Pedalboard Power (the power on the pedalboard is 3-prong male connector)
Mod50 Preamp Send
Mod50 Preamp Return
Mod50 Power amp Send
Mod50 Power Supply
Mod50 MIDI Out
Speaker Out L (from VHT 2902 L)
Speaker Out R (from VHT 2902 R)

I want to be able to use my Mod50 1x12 combo if I want for BMAN / COD type sounds and have a speaker that works really well for that, and then use the VHT 2/90/2 for my mid-gain to high-gain stuff, and use a different setup for that.

Eric

Dude, who is your roady???????????????

You and I both love the Egnater tone but man just give me the Mod 50 and keep it simple.

 

[aeroic]

so i did some wiring of my rig, and I am having some ground loop problems for sure w/ my M4. I have talked to Dave F about it, and I'm just going bite the bullet and send him my rig, a 10 space rack, and have him go at it.

I'm gonna have him build me a rig next. Gonna put it in a Indy Case 9-space rack with shockmounts like this one:

The AxeFX rocks man. Totally dig it!!!!

here are my specs I sent to dave

My rig would consist of:

Furman Power Regulator (1-space)
AxeFX (2-space)
VHT 2/90/2 (2-space)
Egnater M4 (2-space)
Voodoo GCX (1-space)

Total of 8 spaces in a 10-space rack (for proximity issues). I will be having Indy case build me a shockmount X-frame case with hideaway doors.

Here's what I want to be able to do.

GCX loop 1 - AxeFX front end (for pedal / amp sims)
GCX Loop 2 - M4 preamp
GCX Loop 3 - Mod50 preamp
GCX Loop 4 - Mod50 power
GCX Loop 5 - VHT 2902 Power Left
GCX Loop 6 - VHT 2902 Power Right

On the patch panel I would like:

Pedal board Guitar in
TRS Pedal in (to go to the AxeFX Pedal 1)
Pedalboard MIDI in
Pedalboard Power (the power on the pedalboard is 3-prong male connector)
Mod50 Preamp Send
Mod50 Preamp Return
Mod50 Power amp Send
Mod50 Power Supply
Mod50 MIDI Out
Speaker Out L (from VHT 2902 L)
Speaker Out R (from VHT 2902 R)

I want to be able to use my Mod50 1x12 combo if I want for BMAN / COD type sounds and have a speaker that works really well for that, and then use the VHT 2/90/2 for my mid-gain to high-gain stuff, and use a different setup for that.

Eric

Dude, who is your roady???????????????

You and I both love the Egnater tone but man just give me the Mod 50 and keep it simple.

I'm my own roady.....or I'm half dog....i'm half man...I'm a Mog...i'm my own best friend!!!

With that setup I'll have 3 rigs. One w/ my M4 / VHT / AxeFX, one w/ my M4 / Mod50 / VHT / AxeFX, and one w/ my Mod50 / Lexicon MPXG2.

Eric

 

[richedie]

If I had all that, I might be filing for divorce. Seriously, when we get a house, maybe I can add some gear. Oh, the struggles of a condo liver.

Eric, chime in on the boosting SL2 module post. Pretty please?

 

[jlbaxe]

Im going for a 20sp side x side for 40 sp total and a upper compartment for my Mod 50. I have all this hooked up and no ground issues.

1st GCX with pedals and all effects
2nd GCX loop 1 M4 Loop 2 M4 loop 3 Mod50 series loop All 10 modules go through the Mod 50 power section out to 212 cab center

Mod 50 slave out into TC 2290,(Digitech IPS 33B, TC G system in loops of the TC2290) stereo out to RT2/50 stereo out to (2) 212 eggie cabs.

Still setting it up and adding.

The Axe-FX adds ground issues? Hmmmmmm helps with the gas for that. I am only gassing now for an Eventide Harmonizer and about half a dozen guitars. ONLY!

Cant wait to see your rig when its done. It seems its going to start looking like Brads and mine. I guess your MPX M2 doesnt cause ground problems. Sucks about the ground issue with the AXE.

 

[richedie]

Do you guys do world tours with all this gear?

 

[aeroic]

Do you guys do world tours with all this gear?

Nope...but I want to protect my gear in a rack, and have it all work together properly.

JLBAXE. On the AxeFX. Even with some hum issues I've had so far, the unit is friggin awesome! Definitely well worth it!

Eric

 

[jlbaxe]

Do you guys do world tours with all this gear?

Nope...but I want to protect my gear in a rack, and have it all work together properly.

JLBAXE. On the AxeFX. Even with some hum issues I've had so far, the unit is friggin awesome! Definitely well worth it!

Eric

Damn yooooooooou Im going to need more than 40 spaces if this keeps up.