Aeroic, Did You Wire Up The AxeFx/M4 yet?

[jmgman69]

And to think,I thought the tone was in the fingers Rack Whores

 

[jmgman69]

And to think,I thought the tone was in the fingers Rack Whores

Just jealous guys

 

[Doubleneck]

Curious to see how this all turns out, been wanting to get a M4 Rack set-up as well but all these grounding issues have always kept me away.
That's why I've stuck with a pretty simple set-up.

 

[aeroic]

Do you guys do world tours with all this gear?

Nope...but I want to protect my gear in a rack, and have it all work together properly.

JLBAXE. On the AxeFX. Even with some hum issues I've had so far, the unit is friggin awesome! Definitely well worth it!

Eric

Damn yooooooooou Im going to need more than 40 spaces if this keeps up.

Honestly man...I think the AxeFX is better than the eventide's I've used in the past. There's a reason why I didn't go for a 2290, a Harmonizer, a Lexicon MPXG2. I felt the AxeFX was good enough by itself!

Eric

 

[aeroic]

Curious to see how this all turns out, been wanting to get a M4 Rack set-up as well but all these grounding issues have always kept me away.
That's why I've stuck with a pretty simple set-up.

M4 -> Power amp....I've had ZERO issues. I've have a slight hum w/ my MPXG2, but fortunately it has a programmable gate, that allows me to silence it when I'm not playing.

The M4 has been MUCH BETTER than other preamps I've owned (like the Marshall JMP-1) which was SUPER ANNOYING with ground loop hums. I have not needed Ebtech hum eliminators with my M4 rig. The hum I have w/ the AxeFX is about the same as with my Lexicon. Could also be proximity hum w/ my VHT 2/90/2 honestly. Which is why I'm going w/ a 10 space rack instead of an 8. I've consulted dave from the get go with the best way to do this. He's telling me exactly what he recommends to have the cleanest rig possible.

I use this in the studio a lot, so I want it as quiet as possible.

 

[dfrattaroli]

This is the bulk of my "rig".

What you don't see in the pic is the sliding shelf I built with the BB Preamp and Whammy for in front of the preamps and a DD-20 I'll be using in stereo loops of the GCX right before the wet amp/cab. I also have a wet amp in there now: a Carvin DCM150. My wet cabs are CAA 1x12s and my dry is a Bogner OS 2x12.

Now, from what I've read on the subject of ground loops, cutting the shield on one side of the cable is considered the proper way to eliminate the issue and ISOs etc., were labeled the "band-aid" fixes. I'm just learning at this point so I'm forced to consider what I read. My friend Joe Nardulli, who has been building his own rigs for years also uses the "cut-shielding" method in his cables as well as isolating the gear with washers. Even Dave Friedman recommended the washers for "non-pros". Now, I didn't know his solution was to throw an ISO in front and in back of the Axe so I guess I know why he doesn't bother with the washers. I'd imagine there's no need to since most of his clients will spring for whatever ISO their budget supports. I'm guessing here guys.

Bottom line is: I want what Eric wants. A quiet, great sounding rig built around the M4 and Axe.
I'm actually looking forward to learning how to track the loop down and remove it. I've gotten good at soldering so if I have to pull my cables and de-solder, re-solder, whatever, I'm up for it.

I appreciate all the input here and I'm SURE Eric's rig is going to sound great with a guy like Dave doing it. In fact both of our rigs are going to be done by Dave F. The difference is Eric's Dave F. is Dave Friedman and my Dave F. is Dave Frattaroli, or me. Mine will take longer.

My alternatives, should I be unable to fix any loops I have, will be to try the 4 cable method that Fractal recommends (although I can't imagine why that wouldn't experience loops either) or just break it all down into 2 separate rigs: A mono M4/VHT all tube rig with a DD-20, BB, Whammy and Cry Baby for effects and a stereo SS based Axe rig with the Carvin amp. That won't be too shabby either.

Thanks again guys.

Dave

 

[Fallout Labs]

im not getting into it.. I have way better things to do with my time.

 

[jlbaxe]

when I was running the M4 in the TC G sys there was no hum at all, even on the heavy overdrive mods.

So If I get the AXE then I should get a rack mount ISO unit. Does it help if there in 2 seperate racks? Im going Dbl wide so then they wont be on the same rails.

 

[aeroic]

when I was running the M4 in the TC G sys there was no hum at all, even on the heavy overdrive mods.

So If I get the AXE then I should get a rack mount ISO unit. Does it help if there in 2 seperate racks? Im going Dbl wide so then they wont be on the same rails.

I'm not sure. I'd ping Dave Friedman...he can give you the skinny on what he would recommend. He can even make you a set of isolation transformer boxes if you want for it.

Eric

 

[muudrock]

im not getting into it.. I have way better things to do with my time.

Agreed.

 

[jlbaxe]

I think Bruce said in the M4 manual that if there was hum you could use TSR cables from M4 to amp to eliminate the noise.

Maybe that was the TC G Sys.

Do you have any TSR cables to try with the axe-fx? Im curious if that would work.

 

[aeroic]

I think Bruce said in the M4 manual that if there was hum you could use TSR cables from M4 to amp to eliminate the noise.

Might try that too We'll see what happens. Right now I've just been using the AxeFX right into my computer to get used to it. It does take a bit of time to get used to...But it's a killer unit. Definitely a shorter learning curve compared to the Lexicon MPXG2. Thing is I can mess with that in my SLEEP! I've used it for SOOOO damn long!

Eric

 

[Fallout Labs]

I think Bruce said in the M4 manual that if there was hum you could use TSR cables from M4 to amp to eliminate the noise.

Maybe that was the TC G Sys.

Do you have any TSR cables to try with the axe-fx? Im curious if that would work.

going balanced sometimes solves ground loops

 

[jlbaxe]

Might try that too We'll see what happens. Right now I've just been using the AxeFX right into my computer to get used to it. It does take a bit of time to get used to...But it's a killer unit. Definitely a shorter learning curve compared to the Lexicon MPXG2. Thing is I can mess with that in my SLEEP! I've used it for SOOOO damn long!

Eric[/quote]
Yeah I like the set up on the computer with the Axe that I saw on youtube. seems like a cool layout. The guy was showing how to do a w/d/w setup with effects and how to run a uneffected signal parallel with a signal with reverb and mixing the two.

How is it to edit effects? is it like looking at a stomp box?

 

[muudrock]

So Eric, since your rig is getting sent to Mr Friedman,



Your going to send my your Friedman modded modules to check out, Right???

 

[aeroic]

So Eric, since your rig is getting sent to Mr Friedman,



Your going to send my your Friedman modded modules to check out, Right???

LOL. You...richidie...and 3 mile stone

I don't mind lending them out though.

Eric

 

[jmgman69]

So Eric, since your rig is getting sent to Mr Friedman,



Your going to send my your Friedman modded modules to check out, Right???

LOL. You...richidie...and 3 mile stone

I don't mind lending them out though.

Eric

I think we are the loan whores!!!

 

[RACKSYSTEMS]

isolation transformers is the proper audio way to do things. You can't get the rig quit with out them. Cutting the shield although might work in a pro audio installation at line level it never works in a guitar rig. Not only do you need isos but you need to ground all the returns of your gcx. You also need to internally lift the ground from chassis on you gcx . By doing this the axefx is the main ground point. Your vht also has the ability to lift circuit from chassis ground. This kind of set up is extremely hard to get right and very quiet. Now a lot of guys put band aids on there noise with a Decimator but I rarely ever use one for any pro rig at all in fact maybe never. Also for the record i use isos in every rig that I build every last one.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Sheesh. Now I feel like I'll never get this thing quiet. Why is it so difficult? Is the way the Axe is wired?

 

[aeroic]

isolation transformers is the proper audio way to do things. You can't get the rig quit with out them. Cutting the shield although might work in a pro audio installation at line level it never works in a guitar rig. Not only do you need isos but you need to ground all the returns of your gcx. You also need to internally lift the ground from chassis on you gcx . By doing this the axefx is the main ground point. Your vht also has the ability to lift circuit from chassis ground. This kind of set up is extremely hard to get right and very quiet. Now a lot of guys put band aids on there noise with a Decimator but I rarely ever use one for any pro rig at all in fact maybe never. Also for the record i use isos in every rig that I build every last one.

Thanks Dave for this! I know i couldn't have said it better.