Anybody Slaving their amps?

[Kapo_Polenton]

Seems to me this could be the missing secret sauce for "that tone" (yes you know the one) but in addition to this, also allow you to crank the amp where they should be while controlling the overall volume with the slaved amp. Tube amps need volume, running them at 1 on the volume knob on a loud day is like keeping a Corvette in a one car garage all summer and sitting behind the wheel pretending to drive while making screeching sounds with your mouth. The sound is def different than attenuating. Looking at these old rack rigs from the 80's with separate power amps and rack effects, seems like they had a reason for all the toys.



Disclaimer: I know "master" "slave" will generate a ton of politically correct and charged language but please rest assured I mean this only in the (made up?) biblical sense of of Egyptian masters and their lowly god fearing slaves! Please do not bring the locusts.

 

[Racerxrated]

I slave but I don't use a load box to max the output section. I use the host amp as my dry and slave out to an HH power amp for my wet cabs. But the key is getting a quality power amp first, IMO. For a load box/re amp I'd look at the Fryette PS or the Boss TAE. My Mesa has a line out and for my Marshalls I use a Bray line out box, 50 bucks. Works great.
My setup creates a whole room 'surround sound' effect that is very cool. I also have a poor man's Detune effect that really works great, just kinda fell into it. I have an old Boss stereo Chorus that I use to split the signal...from my SDE 3000 out to the chorus then to both sides of the power amp. By setting the EVH Chorus settings on the SDE, then turning on the Chorus pedal it totally gets the 5150 detune effect. It sounds better than the MPX1 I had WITH the Detune on.

 

[blackba]

I prefer to use the term "Re-amping" and yes I am doing this with a couple of my amps.

In the case of a 1940's masco MA50, I am running that into a fryette PS2 then into the cab. That amp was modified for guitar by Skip Simmons and I have the internal preamp I can use or I run my Kingsley tube preamps into the Phono channel, which is ready to receive line level.

I am also running my 1960 Fender brown super into a Suhr RLIR, then taking the non-IR out into a Hafler TA1600 SS rack power amp then into the guitar cab. I was able to get early ZZtop tones with this setup. Sure I don't have a brown deluxe, but got pretty close. Surprisingly the Hafler power amp works really well, even though its not a beast like the HH power amps.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I prefer to use the term "Re-amping" and yes I am doing this with a couple of my amps.

In the case of a 1940's masco MA50, I am running that into a fryette PS2 then into the cab. That amp was modified for guitar by Skip Simmons and I have the internal preamp I can use or I run my Kingsley tube preamps into the Phono channel, which is ready to receive line level.

I am also running my 1960 Fender brown super into a Suhr RLIR, then taking the non-IR out into a Hafler TA1600 SS rack power amp then into the guitar cab. I was able to get early ZZtop tones with this setup. Sure I don't have a brown deluxe, but got pretty close. Surprisingly the Hafler power amp works really well, even though its not a beast like the HH power amps.

I thought technically "re-amping" was dry pre recorded DI signal pumped back through an amp and then live captured. I guess though , technically the same concept you just are taking the dirty out from the speaker. You guys may find this ironic but my Randall RM100 Lynchbox has it labelled as a "slave" out. Guess they never could have foreseen the climate shift 10+ years ago. Either way the loop sucks on this thing so I can in theory get the output there to pump into FX and then into another power amp. I use the Suhr Iso line out though and the Torpedo Reload. I would think that the load is somewhat secondary to the tone if you are getting a tap off the speaker before it hits your attenuator and re-amping that. Digging it though.. you def. EQ diff at volume and use less gain from your pedals. Changes completely what you think about an amp. Makes you wonder about everything that gets bought and sold so quick here. Everybody is judging their amps on the preamp.

 

[SpiderWars]

I do both what racerxrated does if the amp has a MV and do the load box thing on non-MV amps. I have a Rivera Mini Rockrec and Rivera Hammer 120 and recently got a PS2. I also use a Suhr Iso Line Out if I don't need any load box (like doing W/D/W with a MV amp). Used to have Suhr RL and a Suhr RLIR but I seem to prefer the PS2 or Mini Rockrec for load box duty.

IMO, while these things have a purpose and work great and I love having them...there just isn't a substitute for volume. It connects you with those vibrating strings like nothing else can.

 

[Racerxrated]

I do both what racerxrated does if the amp has a MV and do the load box thing on non-MV amps. I have a Rivera Mini Rockrec and Rivera Hammer 120 and recently got a PS2. I also use a Suhr Iso Line Out if I don't need any load box (like doing W/D/W with a MV amp). Used to have Suhr RL and a Suhr RLIR but I seem to prefer the PS2 or Mini Rockrec for load box duty.

IMO, while these things have a purpose and work great and I love having them...there just isn't a substitute for volume. It connects you with those vibrating strings like nothing else can.

Yes, yes it does. I was looking through my 'box O shit' (every player has a box o shit that they don't use, right?) and found my old 'Ultimate Drive' which is a Chinese clone of an OCD. I boost my Trem with my 80s SD1 and OD1X. But I was looking for more saturation...Man did I find it. Replaced the SD1 with the Ultimate Drive and it's total 80s metal and beyond....my hair was standing on end it was so loud. What a drug that is.

 

[blackba]

I prefer to use the term "Re-amping" and yes I am doing this with a couple of my amps.

In the case of a 1940's masco MA50, I am running that into a fryette PS2 then into the cab. That amp was modified for guitar by Skip Simmons and I have the internal preamp I can use or I run my Kingsley tube preamps into the Phono channel, which is ready to receive line level.

I am also running my 1960 Fender brown super into a Suhr RLIR, then taking the non-IR out into a Hafler TA1600 SS rack power amp then into the guitar cab. I was able to get early ZZtop tones with this setup. Sure I don't have a brown deluxe, but got pretty close. Surprisingly the Hafler power amp works really well, even though its not a beast like the HH power amps.

I thought technically "re-amping" was dry pre recorded DI signal pumped back through an amp and then live captured. I guess though , technically the same concept you just are taking the dirty out from the speaker. You guys may find this ironic but my Randall RM100 Lynchbox has it labelled as a "slave" out. Guess they never could have foreseen the climate shift 10+ years ago. Either way the loop sucks on this thing so I can in theory get the output there to pump into FX and then into another power amp. I use the Suhr Iso line out though and the Torpedo Reload. I would think that the load is somewhat secondary to the tone if you are getting a tap off the speaker before it hits your attenuator and re-amping that. Digging it though.. you def. EQ diff at volume and use less gain from your pedals. Changes completely what you think about an amp. Makes you wonder about everything that gets bought and sold so quick here. Everybody is judging their amps on the preamp.

I have heard "Re-amping" in both what you described and what I described.

Anyhow, I much prefer slaving or re-amping compared to using an attenuator.

 

[SpiderWars]

I also found that when doing the W/D/W thing, the cabs need to have some distance between them to really get the full effect.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I'm a little apprehensive to try this but could I not slave directly into the input of the low channel of a 2204? It will compress it a bit more (brown sound it) but I'm assuming it should be relatively safe if it is already line level? (or the slave out of my randall which is to my understanding pre and power amp feed out) Always with a load on the master or main amp of course though.

This guy seems to have it working well... though in a more primitive fashion with that load box.

 

[harddriver]

I'm running W/D/W now 68 plexi (built with NOS parts) into a Matrix Power amp with effects after the amp but I used to reamped/slave with my 1972 Marshall Superlead and thought it sounded really good, you have to radically change the EQ on the Marshall that is the power amp but you seen Ed's doing it well into the 5150 tours with Marshall as well as his HH V800's.

Here's my 68 Metro plexi I built to the Soldano Ed spec being reamped into the front end of a Marshall 72 SL, Northern ash Frank guitar>Clinch EP3 pedal> echo effects Ibanez EM5 echomachines, mxr 6band on a looper pedal, Boss PS5(detune) vintage phase 90, MXR flanger>Variaced 68 Metro plexiMarshall cabs with 12H-30's and Scumback M75's. VH1 tone I truly believe he was reamping 12301 into Fender Bandmaster's, the Fresno 78 tour clips confirmed this with 4 Fender Bandmaster's on stage and poof instant VH grindy aggression. We recorded this with a Zoom QD3 I believe.

 

[acev]

I'm running W/D/W now 68 plexi (built with NOS parts) into a Matrix Power amp with effects after the amp but I used to reamped/slave with my 1972 Marshall Superlead and thought it sounded really good, you have to radically change the EQ on the Marshall that is the power amp but you seen Ed's doing it well into the 5150 tours with Marshall as well as his HH V800's.

Here's my 68 Metro plexi I built to the Soldano Ed spec being reamped into the front end of a Marshall 72 SL, Northern ash Frank guitar>Clinch EP3 pedal> echo effects Ibanez EM5 echomachines, mxr 6band on a looper pedal, Boss PS5(detune) vintage phase 90, MXR flanger>Variaced 68 Metro plexiMarshall cabs with 12H-30's and Scumback M75's. VH1 tone I truly believe he was reamping 12301 into Fender Bandmaster's, the Fresno 78 tour clips confirmed this with 4 Fender Bandmaster's on stage and poof instant VH grindy aggression. We recorded this with a Zoom QD3 I believe.

Sounds great !

 

[acev]

Slaving or WDW usually sounds amazing, much wider sound, once you go there there is no way back

Quick shitty clip of WDW of more modern EVH tone with some micropitch and delay.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Damn, sounding good guys!

 

[harddriver]

Damn, sounding good guys!

Thanks....that video was taken in 2011. If I remember right the 68 Plexi was running at 85 ACV into a load box that I built then I tapped the line out signal with a Suhr Iso line out box slaved into the front end of the 72 Marshall and I think I was only driving two 4x12's here but it could have been all four. So this is truly slaving like Ed was doing on the 78 tour with bandmaster's, bassmans, Musicman's, Marshall's and Vox's as slave power amps.

I had to squint to see what input jack I was using on the 72 slave Marshall and it is the low input of the bright channel and I think it was something like presence almost off, bass almost off and set mids and treble and volume to taste, I think that thread is still on Metro where a guy named Robin L that eluded to be Rudy Leiren was sharing how Ed's slaved on the 78 tour with tons of really incredible details about effects routing, the load boxes and the entire save setup, to this day no one can either confirm or deny the guy was a fraud but all his information seemed to pan out as we went into the EVH lab and tried the tips out.....truly a golden era over at the Metro amp forum.

Rob Galpin from the Metro forum also used the variaced Plexi slaved into Marshall SL live with Kix circa 2008-9 or so and it sounded really killer. He also had a bandmaster and he said it also sounded great with that amp as well.

I tried a bassman as well and it was pretty cool, I think a bandmaster would be total VH1, I almost bought a 68 bandmaster locally just to try it out after seeing the Fresno 78 tour videos. It was alot of fun tone chasing all of Ed's possible setups back then. I eventually got into the whole W/D/W thing but I have to admit there is some magic to the slave setup after re listening to the vids.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I imagine also that Ed's setups might also have fluctuated depending what was available or also slightly over time. I buy the Jose relationship though. The load box and probably eventually for the MV. Maybe a way for him to cut down on the amount of gear he needed to be reliant on for his sound. Either way, what an awesome tone. The only small challenge is that you have to be aware of how the slave amps preamp voicing might affect your tone u suppose.. (as was mentioned above)

 

[Zachman]

Yup, via W/D/W setup using a Boogie Simul 395 Stereo Power Amp. Been doing that for YEARS (Since the 80's, w/ stereo rigs. Back then I used a rack mounted MKIII that I plugged the guitar into, and then split the fx loop send of Boogie 1 into the 2290 input and L/R Stereo out via a TC 2290 into the FX Return of Boogie 1 and a MKIII Coliseum Amp 2). I was using a Crown power amp in this video

 

[blackba]

Yup, via W/D/W setup using a Boogie Simul 395 Stereo Power Amp. Been doing that for YEARS (Since the 80's, w/ stereo rigs. Back then I used a rack mounted MKIII that I plugged the guitar into, and then split the fx loop send of Boogie 1 into the 2290 input and L/R Stereo out via a TC 2290 into the FX Return of Boogie 1 and a MKIII Coliseum Amp 2). I was using a Crown power amp in this video

Sounds great as usual Zachman

curious how much difference you notice comparing the Boogie 395 power amp to the crown?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Yup, via W/D/W setup using a Boogie Simul 395 Stereo Power Amp. Been doing that for YEARS (Since the 80's, w/ stereo rigs. Back then I used a rack mounted MKIII that I plugged the guitar into, and then split the fx loop send of Boogie 1 into the 2290 input and L/R Stereo out via a TC 2290 into the FX Return of Boogie 1 and a MKIII Coliseum Amp 2). I was using a Crown power amp in this video

Sounds great as usual Zachman

curious how much difference you notice comparing the Boogie 395 power amp to the crown?

Yeah those are some sick tones! I wonder if you know of any sleeper or good value power amps that work well in this scenario?

 

[MrDowntown]

i've tried to understand "slaving", but i'm just fucking stoopid, and /or scared i'll blow some shit up or electrocute myself or both... but some of the closest clips i've heard are slaved setups. that said, IMO, the panned 'verb/delay are a BIG part of 'that" sound.

but the clips you guys have attached are Fuck-nomenal!

ETA: btw there is a 65 bandmaster local to me on CL if anyone is nutting to have one... asking $900.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

i've tried to understand "slaving", but i'm just fucking stoopid, and /or scared i'll blow some shit up or electrocute myself or both... but some of the closest clips i've heard are slaved setups. that said, IMO, the panned 'verb/delay are a BIG part of 'that" sound.

but the clips you guys have attached are Fuck-nomenal!

ETA: btw there is a 65 bandmaster local to me on CL if anyone is nutting to have one... asking $900.

Doesn't get any simpler than this old thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52005

There is a diagram too.

Only difference with the VH stuff is that he was just going straight into the front of another Marshall or whatever amp he had vs into dedicated poweramp (initially anyway). A few albums later that all changed with the fx and poweramps etc etc.