Anyone compare a JEL100 vs a Wizard MC I or II?

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Nashville Riff Co

Nashville Riff Co

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Just looking for some feedback from folks who may have compared the two.

The JEL from what I understand is the most uncompressed amp Dave makes and Wizards are known for their raw and non compressed tone.

Would love to hear thoughts from someone who has either owned or played both.

Thank you!
 
Not exactly what you’re looking for, but I had a JEL-20 and MTL at the same time, used to have an MC I, and currently have a Hell Razor KT150 and Friedman Marsha (my favorite Friedman)

The JEL-20 I had was brighter than other Friedman’s (imo one of the better Friedman’s), but still overall was smooth for my taste, not as gritty or toothy as I like to hear. It was plenty bright, but the upper frequencies, while very present (even vs my 1972 SuperLead 100), stayed silky smooth, didn’t bite, sizzle or kerrang like a good Marshall. Imo it’s not on Wizard’s level of being open and raw, but closer than other Friedman’s to it and is more saturated without hollow mids as wizards typically have, so it just depends what you prefer

Fwiw, I’d just get a Hell Razor if you go Wizard and not bother with the other models (unless price is a limiting factor). If you want punch, definition, openness and raw for something non-vintage it’s the best amp in that way I’ve played. The Friedman’s are easier to play and have more fatness in the mids and imo closer to a Marshall voicing (minus it being smoother, less raw), but still enough of its own thing
 
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I've had both side by side. Very broadly speaking, the Wizard has a more cutting upper mid sizzle and a percussive thump. Can be a little too aggressive at times, but works in a mix beautifully.

The JEL is similar to most other Friedmans - basically a Marshall with a more refined sound, more low mids etc. Very similar tones are available on the BE100, although yeah I guess you could call it a little rawer.
 
ZEN Amps said:
I've had both side by side. Very broadly speaking, the Wizard has a more cutting upper mid sizzle and a percussive thump. Can be a little too aggressive at times, but works in a mix beautifully.

The JEL is similar to most other Friedmans - basically a Marshall with a more refined sound, more low mids etc. Very similar tones are available on the BE100, although yeah I guess you could call it a little rawer.
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+1
I've had the Wizard MC50 and MTL models.
I've had 7(!) different Friedman models.

My 1984 JCM with 6550s is closer to the Wizards than the Friedmans, in openess and punch, but still not as tight or stark.
 
@braintheory thank you very much for all those details, it is much appreciated. A few questions if you don't mind:

Isn't the Hell Razor supposed to be an all out metal amp? the most metal i listen to is 80s thrash and then some 90s stuff like Children of Bodom or early In Flames. I guess thats all grandpa metal now lol.

I honestly wasn't even thinking of the Hell Razor because I noticed some folks on older wizard threads on here talking about how the MC is the most "open" as compared to the MTL...i'm assuming that statement would stand for the Hell Razor too?

I wouldn't mind having a little more gain on tap so was thinking perhaps the Hybrid is the best option for me? I've got all the gain i need from my other amps. Just looking for that raw Wizard tone to add into the mix, which is why I keep gravitating back to the MC...stuck in limbo here.

Have thought about buying new, but honestly I think the Wizard will not be a mainstay amp for me, it'll just be a nice amp to mix in with the broader amps. I keep seeing a lot of "mint" condition ones get listed although i recently asked Rick about a 6L6 MTL that's on reverb and turned out it left the factory as an EL34! So who knows what people are doing to theirs after they leave the factory :eek:

Once I get enough posts here, i'll hopefully grab one from one of the Wizard vets....or perhaps on TGP.

@ZEN Amps massive thanks for the note! if you've noticed your Wizard amp vids generate a bunch of views over the last few weeks, thats just me watching them over and over again to figure my options out lol.

I was surprised to see the MC video end with the statement "others have found it useful for metal but we could not"...then i saw that Leon Todd was in love with the MTL as his favorite amp. I do not listen to much metal beyond 80s thrash and then Children of Bodom/early In Flames, so would you say the MTL is better than the Modern Classic? Would the Hybrid in your view be the best compromise for that raw Wizard tone and a little more gain optionality?

Appreciate what you all do at Zen HQ very much!

@LPMojoGL thats really interesting to hear, i've got an early 80s JCM800 that Dave is putting the JEL 2nd channel into. It's EL34 based so dont know if it'll meet the mark, but this is good to know!
 
I have not tried a JEL anything, but listened to vids of Jake and saw him live a number of times. He played cranked and probably still does. Always has a loose bottom end, midrangey tone. Complete opposite of a typical Wizard.
I have had a MC1 since ‘05 ish and has been my main amp since. It has plenty of gain, even not using the gain boost. Sometimes I use an od pedal for a different tone/ feel. Only thing it isn’t really good at is low tuned and 7 string stuff, but it is still ok.
Only newer models I have heard on clips, vids etc. Still prefer mine.
 
Nashville Riff Co said:
@braintheory thank you very much for all those details, it is much appreciated. A few questions if you don't mind:

Isn't the Hell Razor supposed to be an all out metal amp? the most metal i listen to is 80s thrash and then some 90s stuff like Children of Bodom or early In Flames. I guess thats all grandpa metal now lol.

I honestly wasn't even thinking of the Hell Razor because I noticed some folks on older wizard threads on here talking about how the MC is the most "open" as compared to the MTL...i'm assuming that statement would stand for the Hell Razor too?

I wouldn't mind having a little more gain on tap so was thinking perhaps the Hybrid is the best option for me? I've got all the gain i need from my other amps. Just looking for that raw Wizard tone to add into the mix, which is why I keep gravitating back to the MC...stuck in limbo here.

Have thought about buying new, but honestly I think the Wizard will not be a mainstay amp for me, it'll just be a nice amp to mix in with the broader amps. I keep seeing a lot of "mint" condition ones get listed although i recently asked Rick about a 6L6 MTL that's on reverb and turned out it left the factory as an EL34! So who knows what people are doing to theirs after they leave the factory :eek:

Once I get enough posts here, i'll hopefully grab one from one of the Wizard vets....or perhaps on TGP.

@ZEN Amps massive thanks for the note! if you've noticed your Wizard amp vids generate a bunch of views over the last few weeks, thats just me watching them over and over again to figure my options out lol.

I was surprised to see the MC video end with the statement "others have found it useful for metal but we could not"...then i saw that Leon Todd was in love with the MTL as his favorite amp. I do not listen to much metal beyond 80s thrash and then Children of Bodom/early In Flames, so would you say the MTL is better than the Modern Classic? Would the Hybrid in your view be the best compromise for that raw Wizard tone and a little more gain optionality?

Appreciate what you all do at Zen HQ very much!

@LPMojoGL thats really interesting to hear, i've got an early 80s JCM800 that Dave is putting the JEL 2nd channel into. It's EL34 based so dont know if it'll meet the mark, but this is good to know!
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Imo my Hell Razor can do everything I got out of the other wizards I had and more minus maybe just some of the mellower rock tones in the MC. It’s basically the Wizard sound with more available gain, punch, tightness and attack. Even for the type of metal you mentioned most guys have to boost their MC or MTL to get there. The Hell Razor doesn’t need any boost to get there and sounds better as well as those amps boosted for that imo

Its 3 gain controls also shape the eq and the bright knob on the back is very sensitive vs other wizards, so you can get much more range of sounds vs the MTL and MC I had. Imho it’s just a better amp. If I were Rick I’d discontinue the MC and MTL models since releasing the Hell Razor. I haven’t tried a hybrid, but other guys seem to prefer the MC or MTL
 
@Greazygeo @braintheory thank you both, i really appreciate you guys sharing your experience. got a lot of thinking to do!
 
You seem like you just got the gas for slow really bad lately . RT is the best place for this . But wizards can clean up well and do everything pretty well
 
Techdeth said:
You seem like you just got the gas for slow really bad lately . RT is the best place for this . But wizards can clean up well and do everything pretty well
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not sure i follow the "slow" reference but i've had gas for so long lololol

About to finish my guitar collection in the next week and then my amp collection is pretty much done, just contemplating whether adding a wizard is worth it!

Reading about the Modern Classic in Hetfield's book did not help :ROFLMAO:
 
braintheory said:
Imo my Hell Razor can do everything I got out of the other wizards I had and more minus maybe just some of the mellower rock tones in the MC. It’s basically the Wizard sound with more available gain, punch, tightness and attack. Even for the type of metal you mentioned most guys have to boost their MC or MTL to get there. The Hell Razor doesn’t need any boost to get there and sounds better as well as those amps boosted for that imo

Its 3 gain controls also shape the eq and the bright knob on the back is very sensitive vs other wizards, so you can get much more range of sounds vs the MTL and MC I had. Imho it’s just a better amp. If I were Rick I’d discontinue the MC and MTL models since releasing the Hell Razor. I haven’t tried a hybrid, but other guys seem to prefer the MC or MTL
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+1
 
Nashville Riff Co said:
not sure i follow the "slow" reference but i've had gas for so long lololol

About to finish my guitar collection in the next week and then my amp collection is pretty much done, just contemplating whether adding a wizard is worth it!

Reading about the Modern Classic in Hetfield's book did not help :ROFLMAO:
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Don’t forget he was boosting it with a $5000 Klon…
 
Seconding what everyone else is saying about wizards being more raw. The other thing that makes wizards way better in my opinion is that they have way more punch and more immediacy to them- the hell razor I have is the best amp I’ve played and is insanely versatile. Everyone who has come and tried it has been wowed.
 
Yehuda said:
Seconding what everyone else is saying about wizards being more raw. The other thing that makes wizards way better in my opinion is that they have way more punch and more immediacy to them- the hell razor I have is the best amp I’ve played and is insanely versatile. Everyone who has come and tried it has been wowed.
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very cool so it sounds like everyone agrees it can do what the Modern Classic does and then some!
 
Yehuda said:
Both my wizards were kt88 150w
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I still think wizards are best with el34s . Rick and el34s and this unique razor shard highs the others don’t . But all are great of course .
 
There is no Hell Razor with EL34 option on the Website/
Does Rick make them under request?
 
Techdeth said:
I still think wizards are best with el34s . Rick and el34s and this unique razor shard highs the others don’t . But all are great of course .
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I find it hard to believe an el34 one would match the headroom or punch of the ones I’ve had but haven’t played one so not sure- I know @braintheory doesn’t like kt88s usually but liked them in my wizard
 
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