Are we just, not gonna talk about the Rev F Dual rec Reissue or???

[skoora]

Just gonna leave these here..

The Multi watts are brighter and more mid forward but in a way I don’t find pleasing. I prefer the top end on the 2 channel models. They just need help controlling their excessive low end. Either low bass settings or a boost that cuts lows. The audible differences between that C mod and a G is incredibly minimal. Nothing that different EQ settings or a pedal wouldn’t change. It may feel more different to play than to hear it.

 

[Bram576]

He was also though iirc only demoing the red ch’s (orange is where it’s at for me) and wasn’t consistent with using the same powertube types in each amp (most had 6L6, one had EL34’s iirc). It was still a good video, but imo these are important factors that I think weren’t as clearly stated in that video

I’m sure you’re aware of this, others may not be. If you switch orange to modern then go to switch to the red channel it’ll be thin as fuck. Have to toggle it back then the red channel will be angry and huge.

 

[Bram576]

I was asking about any differences between any of the revisions between C and G, basically.

Mesa stopped using the Mark III transformer early into rev fs I think 1500 or so documented. So some rev fs may not be that different from a G at all, while an early one is. Mesa revisions man….

Edit: So this may be why some “C Mods” even sound different than others. Do it to a G and you’re missing some sauce. Even a Rev F with a later serial number same deal. I think to truly get that sound matched up need a serial 1500 or earlier.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Mesa stopped using the Mark III transformer early into rev fs I think 1500 or so documented. So some rev fs may not be that different from a G at all, while an early one is. Mesa revisions man….

Hah seems like different transformers would be tough to put on a switch.

I guess this is what I was getting at. If all the changes are just some component swaps in the preamp or something, then you could have different revisions on a switch. But if different transformers are part of those tweaks between revisions, then yeah obviously you can't put those on a switch.

 

[Techdeth]

Mesa stopped using the Mark III transformer early into rev fs I think 1500 or so documented. So some rev fs may not be that different from a G at all, while an early one is. Mesa revisions man….

Edit: So this may be why some “C Mods” even sound different than others. Do it to a G and you’re missing some sauce. Even a Rev F with a later serial number same deal. I think to truly get that sound matched up need a serial 1500 or earlier.

This is absolute madness lol

 

[Bram576]

This is absolute madness lol

Dude Mesa revisions are nuts. False schematics out there. Amps from the same era that are supposed to be identical but have tweaks from others just because lol.

 

[bubucci]

The Multi watts are brighter and more mid forward but in a way I don’t find pleasing. I prefer the top end on the 2 channel models. They just need help controlling their excessive low end. Either low bass settings or a boost that cuts lows. The audible differences between that C mod and a G is incredibly minimal. Nothing that different EQ settings or a pedal wouldn’t change. It may feel more different to play than to hear it.

You don't find it pleasing but these are exact frequencies which works in a mix. GJo's video of MW vs Rev C shows it nicely. Mid forward is what You want, especially in a band mix. Rev C is pure collector's hype. Soundwise it doesn't sound not even one dollar better than MW.

 

[Techdeth]

Dude Mesa revisions are nuts. False schematics out there. Amps from the same era that are supposed to be identical but have tweaks from others just because lol.

I mean I know it’s all in fun how we do this shit but it’s kinda crazy lol . But my thing is to get the tone I want , no matter the revision, afyer i boost and eq i end up with the same tone I swear . So that’s pretty cool . They get where I need fast / as long as I got a boost and sometimes an eq I’m good with any recto .

 

[GJgo]

How close is the Multiwatt to the Rev f in the room with your fav cab

In the room solo the Ref F, like the other vintage vs modern heads, is a little more open & organic and is ultra crushing & satisfying. If you're not gigging I'd put the triple F & G at the top of my list, since I don't really consider a real C "a Recto sound". It's more like a Mark III and a Rev F had a baby.

On a close mic recording, honestly in a mix you could dial them where no one could tell a difference between a F and a MW.

Live- if I'm being honest- by a solid margin the best Recto tone I've had in the band is the Dual (specifically, not Triple) MW on Orange Modern. It just sits in the live mix better than the vintage Rectos.

I've also gigged the Tremoverb though I don't have any recordings. I love that amp but it is a bit darker & smoother than a Dual / Triple and was for that reason my least favorite live. While I've never owned a Roadster, a buddy has and I hear they're in the same camp.

Oh I've also used a Rectoverb 25 and they're a bad ass little amp where all channels are voiced well. Modern is voiced like a G so it for sure needs a boost. Solid choice in the small wattage camp.

 

[GJgo]

You don't find it pleasing but these are exact frequencies which works in a mix. GJo's video of MW vs Rev C shows it nicely. Mid forward is what You want, especially in a band mix. Rev C is pure collector's hype. Soundwise it doesn't sound not even one dollar better than MW.

IMO Rev C is not just pure collector's hype. I will give you that live and on the mic it's close enough to other 2 channels to not matter, however when you're just playing at home it is like the C+ in that it has a special sauce in the feels that other amps can't touch. INCLUDING the lead tones being more Mark than Recto like.

To really get any sense of the feels you have to do a condenser mic in the room. Close mics can't capture it. Here's an iPhone clip of the C.

That said like I mentioned above, yeah the Dual MW cuts the live mix the best. I hate to say it, but the only thing with a Recto name on it to do it better (Which I have also played in the band) is the Badlander. Even more upper mids & even less ass!

 

[311splawndude]

Hah seems like different transformers would be tough to put on a switch.

I guess this is what I was getting at. If all the changes are just some component swaps in the preamp or something, then you could have different revisions on a switch. But if different transformers are part of those tweaks between revisions, then yeah obviously you can't put those on a switch.

Very true. I forgot about the tranny swap mid F series. There may be other ways to get close but like we've heard with so many other amps, Marshall is a great example, the iron make a lot of difference.

 

[Bram576]

IMO Rev C is not just pure collector's hype. I will give you that live and on the mic it's close enough to other 2 channels to not matter,

To really get any sense of the feels you have to do a condenser mic in the room. Close mics can't capture it. Here's an iPhone clip of the C.

That said like I mentioned above, yeah the Dual MW cuts the live mix the best. I hate to say it, but the only thing with a Recto name on it to do it better (Which I have also played in the band) is the Badlander. Even more upper mids & even less ass!

On a mic I think there’s a definite difference prior to the transformer swap. Say a g to the early age and before. The amps with the mark iii transformers are noticeably tighter, and I will say they’re naturally tighter while still being big.

I’m in disagreement about the dual mw orange sitting better. I think that may be the case for a guitar player ear, having that almost nasally mid range cover up frequencies and sit over the snare and the vocal. The reason I love the orange channel on early rectos so much is they just naturally sit and make room for other instruments with hardly any work at all.

A very common example of that nasally mid range, and the multi watt reminds me of it a bit on the orange channel, is every time a 5150 guy cranks up his mids a ton and all you hear is the nasally guitar. Can’t hear the rest of that stuff in the band but the guitar is way up front to the point the rest of the band suffers. Someone who posts the nasally guitar tones all the time is fluff, I get that’s his sound and others dig that sound but man…. Not my deal.

Love the way a tone like this sit’s with a recto.

 

[GJgo]

Where a tone sits in a mix is total personal preference & I respect that. I figured out a long time ago that when you put up tone clips, people literally hear things differently and opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and nobody wants to hear yours!

On the transformers, here's an open challenge for anyone. Take an amp and close mic reamp it like you're recording for an album. Now swap transformers to whatever the "other" one is for that amp. Re-bias to match if you're swapping the PT. Now without touching anything else, reamp that version. Now level match, splice & compare. In a blind test I can all but guarantee no one would be able to tell the difference.

I've done this for PTs, power tubes, spongy / bold voltage, tube / diode, pentode / triode, Class A / Simul. All these things we think we hear in the room make effectively no difference in a properly reamped, level matched close mic recording.

Here's an example comparing JJ 6L6 running 34 mA vs. EH EL34 running 16 mA. Close your eyes & tell me where the change is.

 

[Techdeth]

In the room solo the Ref F, like the other vintage vs modern heads, is a little more open & organic and is ultra crushing & satisfying. If you're not gigging I'd put the triple F & G at the top of my list, since I don't really consider a real C "a Recto sound". It's more like a Mark III and a Rev F had a baby.

On a close mic recording, honestly in a mix you could dial them where no one could tell a difference between a F and a MW.

Live- if I'm being honest- by a solid margin the best Recto tone I've had in the band is the Dual (specifically, not Triple) MW on Orange Modern. It just sits in the live mix better than the vintage Rectos.

I've also gigged the Tremoverb though I don't have any recordings. I love that amp but it is a bit darker & smoother than a Dual / Triple and was for that reason my least favorite live. While I've never owned a Roadster, a buddy has and I hear they're in the same camp.

Oh I've also used a Rectoverb 25 and they're a bad ass little amp where all channels are voiced well. Modern is voiced like a G so it for sure needs a boost. Solid choice in the small wattage camp.

I def trust you on Mesa !

 

[skoora]

You don't find it pleasing but these are exact frequencies which works in a mix. GJo's video of MW vs Rev C shows it nicely. Mid forward is what You want, especially in a band mix. Rev C is pure collector's hype. Soundwise it doesn't sound not even one dollar better than MW.

They may “work” but it doesn’t matter if they’re fatiguing and unpleasant. Great, I can hear it. Two songs later, I hate it. SLO’s have this quality as well. It technically mixes well but it can grate after a while compared to a 6 knob Marshall. I remember one specific instance seeing an all girl AC/DC tribute, around ‘97/98, where the girl doing Angus, I knew worked at Soldano at the time, so they both were using SLO’s. They cut well and at first it sounded AC/DC enough but it just fatigued the ears after several songs. A good Marshall or cranked old Fender and I can listen to that all night. The Mesa MW makes me feel that right away. I’d rather put a graphic in the loop of 2 channel and slightly cut lows and slightly boost mids, which I do sometimes with my TVerb.

 

[skoora]

Where a tone sits in a mix is total personal preference & I respect that. I figured out a long time ago that when you put up tone clips, people literally hear things differently and opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and nobody wants to hear yours!

On the transformers, here's an open challenge for anyone. Take an amp and close mic reamp it like you're recording for an album. Now swap transformers to whatever the "other" one is for that amp. Re-bias to match if you're swapping the PT. Now without touching anything else, reamp that version. Now level match, splice & compare. In a blind test I can all but guarantee no one would be able to tell the difference.

I've done this for PTs, power tubes, spongy / bold voltage, tube / diode, pentode / triode, Class A / Simul. All these things we think we hear in the room make effectively no difference in a properly reamped, level matched close mic recording.

Here's an example comparing JJ 6L6 running 34 mA vs. EH EL34 running 16 mA. Close your eyes & tell me where the change is.

Where were the masters set on the Peavey? Not all amps react the same with a tube change and also depending on how little they designed the power section to impart tone eg. overdriving the P.I. If you play predominantly amps that are preamp based for high gain, tube changes won’t make much of a difference.
I can definitely say the MKV I had for many years sounded quite different with 34’s. Even more so when turned up to a healthy volume. Really changed the top end of the gainier settings and reduced lows and highs of the cleanest settings. The difference in punch and attack between 45 and 90 watt settings also translated to recordings.
The differences I get between the 5 watt setting and 15/30 on my LSS are also significant in top end responses and midrange saturation. All these differences definitely picked up on close micing.


Ultimately….it depends.

I also agree with you as there are a few amps I have where, even though you certainly feel a difference, changes like bold/spongy tube vs S.S. rec don’t necessarily translate to a close mic recording. IME, These changes tend to be more noticeable with clean and medium gain settings rather than metal/hardcore levels of gain. It would be interesting to hear the Peavey set to a medium, crunchy gain and turned up a fair bit in a tube comparison.

 

[saxxamafone]

On a mic I think there’s a definite difference prior to the transformer swap. Say a g to the early age and before. The amps with the mark iii transformers are noticeably tighter, and I will say they’re naturally tighter while still being big.

I’m in disagreement about the dual mw orange sitting better. I think that may be the case for a guitar player ear, having that almost nasally mid range cover up frequencies and sit over the snare and the vocal. The reason I love the orange channel on early rectos so much is they just naturally sit and make room for other instruments with hardly any work at all.

A very common example of that nasally mid range, and the multi watt reminds me of it a bit on the orange channel, is every time a 5150 guy cranks up his mids a ton and all you hear is the nasally guitar. Can’t hear the rest of that stuff in the band but the guitar is way up front to the point the rest of the band suffers. Someone who posts the nasally guitar tones all the time is fluff, I get that’s his sound and others dig that sound but man…. Not my deal.

Love the way a tone like this sit’s with a recto.

That sounds awesome.
Any more info on white chapel rig and what’s used?

 

[Bram576]

That sounds awesome.
Any more info on white chapel rig and what’s used?

Far as I know rev f dual recto into a Marshall cab with Marshall vintage speakers used. 57 and TUL microphones g12.

 

[Beyond Black]

Far as I know rev f dual recto into a Marshall cab with Marshall vintage speakers used. 57 and TUL microphones g12.

Yes that is a massive tone fo sho.

 

[saxxamafone]

Far as I know rev f dual recto into a Marshall cab with Marshall vintage speakers used. 57 and TUL microphones g12.

assuming the recto is boosted too by the sounds of it