Did Dave Friedman find the josé mods behind Van Halen 1 ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Amp_chaser
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I don’t think there’s actually any mod. I think Ed and Jose punk’d everybody and put a placebo switch on Ed’s amp to fuck with ALL of ya’s… and it worked.
Ed is the GOAT ? because simply he had the ultimate tone in his hands and playing. Y’all wasting your lives chasing leprechauns.
 
jabps said:
So there are two stories here - the one from Rudy where Randy was going to do Speak and then a third studio album. And then the one from Andrew Klein where Speak would have fulfilled Randy's obligation and that would have been considered the third album. For those that don't know, Klein was very close with Delores.

Klein has a massive amount of documentation because he was the other half of putting the biography together - tensions were so bad between Ozzy/Sharon and Randy that he just wanted out which most everyone knows. He was massively against recording an all Sabbath album but Sharon and Ozzy convinced him to do it on the basis that it would fulfill his obligation to them. Tensions had been bad pretty much once Sharon made Blizzard a solo project. Once Ozzy slugged Randy, then they both insisted on doing the Speak album as a money grab to fill their pockets, dude was done.

Recording Speak was all about putting royalties in Ozzy's pocket, Sabbath as well they released a live album afterwards. The original publishing deal with management had expired and it was a way both parties could make money quickly.

I've come to despise Ozzy and Sharon. It's all about greed to them. But his name was the reason we have incredible music from Randy, Jake and even Zakk. Horrible people though and the main reason that as long as they are alive there will never be a proper documentary on Randy.
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I also find that everyone let's lovable fumbly mumbly Ozzy off the hook.. almost like he hides behind this facade of being this incompetent simp of a man who is forced on stage by his wife and management and has zero control over anything. They didn't even blink an eye after Randy died and were probably making plans for any replacement that same day. Ozzy somehow can't say " no" to anyone, he's a victim! When in reality he is spoiled, surrounded by handlers, selfish, and profited massively on the backs of other people including Zakk who he conveniently didn't bother contacting for years while they toured with Gus. Yes the gig opens doors but it also sets you up for having your songs and credits stolen and being dropped at a moment's notice. They really are not good people when it comes down to it. Sharon will go on the view and have all sorts of things to say about ethics and politics yet she has no problem stealing from other musicians. What they did to Lynch stringing him along was pretty terrible. I would have loved to have seen what Schenker did with Ozzy if MSG hadn't taken off. Two alcoholics who were prone to fits of booze rage touring together? I bet Schenker would have lasted a month before punching Ozzy out.
 
Kapo_Polenton said:
I also find that everyone let's lovable fumbly mumbly Ozzy off the hook.. almost like he hides behind this facade of being this incompetent simp of a man who is forced on stage by his wife and management and has zero control over anything. They didn't even blink an eye after Randy died and were probably making plans for any replacement that same day. Ozzy somehow can't say " no" to anyone, he's a victim! When in reality he is spoiled, surrounded by handlers, selfish, and profited massively on the backs of other people including Zakk who he conveniently didn't bother contacting for years while they toured with Gus. Yes the gig opens doors but it also sets you up for having your songs and credits stolen and being dropped at a moment's notice. They really are not good people when it comes down to it. Sharon will go on the view and have all sorts of things to say about ethics and politics yet she has no problem stealing from other musicians. What they did to Lynch stringing him along was pretty terrible. I would have loved to have seen what Schenker did with Ozzy if MSG hadn't taken off. Two alcoholics who were prone to fits of booze rage touring together? I bet Schenker would have lasted a month before punching Ozzy out.
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Totally agree. When I hear Oz tunes I literally have to listen to it as a band and he's just the vehicle for singing. With the Randy stuff it takes me back to a great learning time as a guitarist and how RR changed my path with playing. I just listened to some live boots and sometimes it's crazy how good he was and sometimes he's as sloppy as any of us but it puts a smile on my face. I also love the way he plays the old Sabbath stuff, almost like he was giving the finger to Ozzy and Sharon every night.

I was just reading some more stuff from Klein and most RR fans have seen the Entertainment Tonight stuff where they filmed rehearsal. Rumor is there is more and in fact even a pro shot recording for that night's show but who knows where that is. Basically as Klein tells it as RR was leaving rehearsal he got into an argument with the tour manager, telling him to tell Sharon pay me what you owe or I walk right now. See that is the stuff that Ozzy and Sharon don't want out there but none of this should be surprising because of how badly they treated Jake. For years fans had this view that Randy was held in a different regard by them but that's completely false, they looked at him no differently than how they looked at Jake. I have little doubt had RR left they would've fucked him and Delores over but him dying was too public.

You know with Van Halen, crazy stuff as well but they were actually a band. Drama always follows bands and for some once that layer is pulled back it's hard for them to understand they're all just human. But Ozzy and Sharon, whole different category of shit people.
 
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jabps said:
Totally agree. When I hear Oz tunes I literally have to listen to it as a band and he's just the vehicle for singing. With the Randy stuff it takes me back to a great learning time as a guitarist and how RR changed my path with playing. I just listened to some live boots and sometimes it's crazy how good he was and sometimes he's as sloppy as any of us but it puts a smile on my face. I also love the way he plays the old Sabbath stuff, almost like he was giving the finger to Ozzy and Sharon every night.

I was just reading some more stuff from Klein and most RR fans have seen the Entertainment Tonight stuff where they filmed rehearsal. Rumor is there is more and in fact even a pro shot recording for that night's show but who knows where that is. Basically as Klein tells it as RR was leaving rehearsal he got into an argument with the tour manager, telling him to tell Sharon pay me what you owe or I walk right now. See that is the stuff that Ozzy and Sharon don't want out there but none of this should be surprising because of how badly they treated Jake. For years fans had this view that Randy was held in a different regard by them but that's completely false, they looked at him no differently than how they looked at Jake. I have little doubt had RR left they would've fucked him and Delores over but him dying was too public.

You know with Van Halen, crazy stuff as well but they were actually a band. Drama always follows bands and for some once that layer is pulled back it's hard for them to understand they're all just human. But Ozzy and Sharon, whole different category of shit people.
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With Randy dead, Ozzy and Sharon’s time in front of cameras “loving on Randy” were able to create their own narrative…
But Jake can and does still talk!
 
jabps said:
So there are two stories here - the one from Rudy where Randy was going to do Speak and then a third studio album. And then the one from Andrew Klein where Speak would have fulfilled Randy's obligation and that would have been considered the third album. For those that don't know, Klein was very close with Delores.

Klein has a massive amount of documentation because he was the other half of putting the biography together - tensions were so bad between Ozzy/Sharon and Randy that he just wanted out which most everyone knows. He was massively against recording an all Sabbath album but Sharon and Ozzy convinced him to do it on the basis that it would fulfill his obligation to them. Tensions had been bad pretty much once Sharon made Blizzard a solo project. Once Ozzy slugged Randy, then they both insisted on doing the Speak album as a money grab to fill their pockets, dude was done.

Recording Speak was all about putting royalties in Ozzy's pocket, Sabbath as well they released a live album afterwards. The original publishing deal with management had expired and it was a way both parties could make money quickly.

I've come to despise Ozzy and Sharon. It's all about greed to them. But his name was the reason we have incredible music from Randy, Jake and even Zakk. Horrible people though and the main reason that as long as they are alive there will never be a proper documentary on Randy.
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Yeah, the only info I've read came from Rudy`s book. I don't think Rudy mentions in the book Ozzy slugging Randy though

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jabps said:
Totally agree. When I hear Oz tunes I literally have to listen to it as a band and he's just the vehicle for singing. With the Randy stuff it takes me back to a great learning time as a guitarist and how RR changed my path with playing. I just listened to some live boots and sometimes it's crazy how good he was and sometimes he's as sloppy as any of us but it puts a smile on my face. I also love the way he plays the old Sabbath stuff, almost like he was giving the finger to Ozzy and Sharon every night.

I was just reading some more stuff from Klein and most RR fans have seen the Entertainment Tonight stuff where they filmed rehearsal. Rumor is there is more and in fact even a pro shot recording for that night's show but who knows where that is. Basically as Klein tells it as RR was leaving rehearsal he got into an argument with the tour manager, telling him to tell Sharon pay me what you owe or I walk right now. See that is the stuff that Ozzy and Sharon don't want out there but none of this should be surprising because of how badly they treated Jake. For years fans had this view that Randy was held in a different regard by them but that's completely false, they looked at him no differently than how they looked at Jake. I have little doubt had RR left they would've fucked him and Delores over but him dying was too public.

You know with Van Halen, crazy stuff as well but they were actually a band. Drama always follows bands and for some once that layer is pulled back it's hard for them to understand they're all just human. But Ozzy and Sharon, whole different category of shit people.
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Crazy to think every guitarist was complaining about pay... maybe by the time they got to Zakk they figured that out. But it is so true that his death was a chance for them to market him and boy did they do that. I love listening to the old bootlegs on youtube. There is one user on there who knew Randy who is committed to putting as much of the live stuff as he has out there. I was surprised to see just how many live bootlegs he has. Apparently he says he has some footage which he wants to put on youtube but is afraid of lawsuit or cease and desist posting. Something to that effect. You'd think that's a wild story but then knowing what we know about that camp... believable.
 
harddriver said:
I don't think ampchaser realizes you also have an OG Jose modded Marshall which you have played to directly compare to reach your conclusion about if a stock Marshall Plexi/Superlead can achieve VH1 gain and tone and is more correct to what is heard on VH1 live or recorded. The Jose's sound great but they are their own animal so to speak and they do seem to lose those qualities that the plexi/suprelead possess.

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Yeah a 4-holer basically encorages (i.e. forces) you to crank it to hell for those tones, so a lot of the drive is from the power section. Specifically the phase inverter which is getting slammed hard.

A typical no-diode Jose (like ours) is way closer to a 2203 so you end up getting the lion's share of drive from the preamp. It's not a radically different tone for the casual observer but in the world of Marshall aficionados and VH tone chasers the details matter.

Amp_chaser said:
Yes i admit it his recording is very good and better than mine. However i really ask myself if the speakers were pushed at max during the recording or if the amp was attenuated because that would have made a big difference. I've heard counteless interviews of eddie saying he hated how loud Marshalls were so i imagine that the amp was perhaps attenuated in some kinda way.
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No, in general I don't like pushing speakers hard. That particular super lead has two tubes pulled, so it was essentially a 50W amp running into a quad of 25W blackbacks. Pretty safe territory and previous tests have showed speaker breakup really isn't a factor in this range.

Also running the amp into a quality loadbox / I.R can easily get that tone. It's not like speaker breakup adds lots of amp-like distortion - it's more about high end roll off, farty lows and (for my tastes) unwanted compression.
 
hammered said:
Yeah, the only info I've read came from Rudy`s book. I don't think Rudy mentions in the book Ozzy slugging Randy though

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Yeah the different version is from Klein. It's too bad those interviews with him on that FB page are spaced out like that but it's a great read for Rhoads fans. Regardless, Rhoads was leaving.

I believe it was Tommy who told Bob that detailed out Ozzy hitting Randy. Tommy may have spoken of it since elsewhere as well. It was over Randy refusing to record a whole Sabbath cover album. Whatever happened that album was the beginning of the end of RR's tenure in Ozzy. Not surprising though as Ozzy hit Rudy and sent Don Costa to the hospital to fix his nose. They guy was a drunken buffoon.
 
ZEN Amps said:
I think some guys are WAY overthinking this, and letting speculative fine details get in the way of the important stuff.

I'm not saying this is perfect VH tone replica material, but it took maybe 10 mins total. I didn't reference the original, little care was taken - and still it's close enough for rock n' roll. More time messing about, post-EQ, dialling in the reverb etc would get it closer but whatever, it's just not important.



IMO here are the 'secret' ingredients to getting 90% of the way there (that we've all known since the 80's) -

1. A nice NMV Marshall type amp cranked up. This is our 69 Super Lead, but any quality clone can get you there.
2. G12M in a decent 412 miked with an SM57. This is a blackback, but earlier (or later) greenbacks work just fine.
3. A humbucker equipped guitar in Eb. Super strat, Gibson, whatever.
4. An appropriate riff played by someone with decent technique (I just qualify).
5. Don't be shy with the plate reverb.

Using 6CA7's, a variac, the right magic plckup, a JBL etc. may get you closer, but practicing an extra 10mins a day would probably make more difference in the long run.

In fact I think that a great player using this exact tone in a kickin' VH cover band would absolutely crush it. Happy to hear counter-arguments, but if someone could explain why this 'mystery' still needs solving I'll be impressed.
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Yep, yep, yep. I can't argue with that, bro.

Feb 1978: I was 16 the first time I heard Eruption and You Really Got Me on the radio. I thought "That's the best sounding Les Paul I've heard! But how does he get a Bigsby to go so low in pitch?" LOL
 
DanTravis62 said:
He had to, because obviously you can't get enough gain from a stock plexi to play the shidd pant toan

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Yeah however according to the person who made the superthump 50. She interviewed George lynch and she said it was a broken Marshall. There has to be something inside broken to make it sound like that. She also said that b+ had to be higher and brought down with a variac. That was some of her statements but I didn’t took them seriously. I think there is a probability that Dave knows what was was going on and doesn’t do this mod to everyone. Many people who heard George plexi after it was modded by Dave said it sounded exactly like Van Halen. Who knows what’s going on…
 
Amp_chaser said:
Yeah however according to the person who made the superthump 50. She interviewed George lynch and she said it was a broken Marshall. There has to be something inside broken to make it sound like that. She also said that b+ had to be higher and brought down with a variac. That was some of her statements but I didn’t took them seriously. I think there is a probability that Dave knows what was was going on and doesn’t do this mod to everyone. Many people who heard George plexi after it was modded by Dave said it sounded exactly like Van Halen. Who knows what’s going on…
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Dude.

It's a lower value than typical V1B resistor. 1k or 820ohm down from a typical stock 2.7k.
It's a Fat cap bypassing the V2A cathode resistor.
Higher NFB resistor, 100k I think.
And, a higher value Mid pot.
Might be 1 that I'm forgetting.

I did the first 3 things to a 72 50w and the amount of gain increase was astounding. Like a boost in front of the amp.
Then, loading the amp down and variac it, there's your tone(with an Echplex in front, and JBLs/M20s in a cab).
Boom.
 
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