Do you think modelers will get there in the next 10 years?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tone Monster
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IS350xtrm said:
My wife swears by Chanel bags at $6000-$10000 each because they are made of the best materials yada yada yada. Does anyone who isn’t into Chanel bags have any argument why they would cost that kind of money when you can go to any department store on earth and buy a leather bag that’ll last your wife 10 years and only cost $100?
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I justify my gear purchases by all the handbags my wife has. She’s been into Hermès and Fendi the last few years. Fucking HANDBAGS!! Pains me every time I look at it and think that’s a brand new Diezel Hagen she has draped across her shoulder. I tell her all the time there is no way the outside covering designed to protect what’s inside should have more value than what’s inside.
 
No!

But the caveat here is the more younger players use modeling etc... that is what they become accustom too. Essentially that becomes their reference point, that becomes the norm.

But digital etc... as advanced as they will ever get will never be able to fully replicate the nuances and imperfections of a tube amp. It simply cannot. They can even program in their own imperfections but still, it would be a digital imperfection trying to replicate something analog and in that regard, it's still a replication not analog.

Again, the future of tubes amps will be determined by the younger generation. And if they determine that a digital simulation that will never be 100% the real thing, is ok with them, then tubes amps will eventually fade away.

I still think we're a good bit away from that at this point though as tube amps are having a renaissance in many regards.
 
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Tube amps like will always be around and desirable to some, similar to '60s muscle cars. There's something visceral about them despite the fact that nearly all of them are slower than a new Toyota Camry. But a lot of folks will move on to modern technology to have the latest convenience.
 
yeah I don't think so. It's not about tube amps only, but analog and digital generated tones have a different imprint in a mix. Synth/keyboard is my second instrument and it's the same thing, analog synths and even analog drum machines are still very popular for this same reason. This is something most producers understand, even on prominently electronic styles like EDM or industrial. Any analog source will have a different texture/imprint than its digital counterpart even if they sound very similar. There's definitely a time and place for both but they are not the same.
 
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jabps said:
No!

But the caveat here is the more younger players use modeling etc... that is what they become accustom too. Essentially that becomes their reference point, that becomes the norm.

But digital etc... as advanced as they will ever get will never be able to fully replicate the nuances and imperfections of a tube amp. It simply cannot. They can even program in their own imperfections but still, it would be a digital imperfection trying to replicate something analog and in that regard, it's still a replication not analog.

Again, the future of tubes amps will be determined by the younger generation. And if they determine that a digital simulation that will never be 100% the real thing, is ok with them, then tubes amps will eventually fade away.

I still think we're a good bit away from that at this point though as tube amps are having a renaissance in many regards.
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Well stated. The kids learning on/using digital have it great-lots of quality choices with tons of versatility. But I can only imagine, after 5 years of playing through a quality modeler, the first time he/she plugs into a NMV Marshall half stack and gives it some gas. Then they'll know what a REAL rig is really about!
 
Racerxrated said:
Well stated. The kids learning on/using digital have it great-lots of quality choices with tons of versatility. But I can only imagine, after 5 years of playing through a quality modeler, the first time he/she plugs into a NMV Marshall half stack and gives it some gas. Then they'll know what a REAL rig is really about!
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I had this exact experience with my friend's son, who is 20 years my junior. He's been playing an Axe for a few years, never played a proper amp, and came to my studio one day, plugged into my 2203 and soiled his pants, front and back.
 
aside said:
I had this exact experience with my friend's son, who is 20 years my junior. He's been playing an Axe for a few years, never played a proper amp, and came to my studio one day, plugged into my 2203 and soiled his pants, front and back.
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Greatness!
 
Devin said:
Weight/transportation expense/convenience
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This exactly. About 7 yrs ago I saw a Canadian metal band ‘Threat Signal’. They stopped locally for a quick gig in my neck o the woods. Both gps used the AXE II. Sounded great! Killer tone out front. Talked with one of them after their set and the AXE use was mostly about convenience...he had a nice collection of great tube amps at home and loved the fact that he could leave them there safe while taking the AXE on the road. But he wasn’t selling his tube amps. Ever.
 
There‘s plenty of cool ways to use modelers and tube amps with lots of people blurring the lines between the two. Using a modeler’s preamp into a clean tube power amp and guitar cabs will usually keep up with a tube amp live. Then there are people using tube amps with ir load boxes to get awesome direct sounds. I think all of the technology is there and you can mix and match to get exactly what you want. I still love the grunt and rage that a high gain tube amp brings to the table, but once it gets miked and put into the foh, I’d almost prefer to send the carefully crafted tone of a modeler.... especially if the sound guy is a little suspect.
 
Ive been testing IRs in Amp sims and I can say that besides characteristics such as feedback and a few things all of what I tested was accurate and well,
-I Debunked the myth that sims sound the same with the same IR
-I used Mike Plotnikoff's 30watt Celestial Blackback IRs
-I have fully tested them against a 100 watt Marshall combo

Feel free to check them out on my soundcloud

Been struggling to get the closest to a real amp for a while now, sims can not feedback, at least solid state amps have some punch from the 12inch speakers and there are other variables (some) still not even possible with sims.

I tried getting the most decent sounds from Softube Marshalls, Neural DSP Omega, STL Tones Howard Benson, Gojira, Nameless and Cali., NONE of the IRs with these sims got close to even the small 100 watt Marshall dfx100 Combo I have around the house....

These are tracks with a 100 watt Marshall combo
Song Strength
Riffs from Song Free (skip around to hear all different ways of picking like Thugs, double thumbs, skidding etc) cant do on a sim amp at all.


Here I have the Amp Sims trying to match up and not even getting close to what was Rough cheesy riffs re recorded at home.

I play two riffs over and over to show of the amps are actually faithfull to the tone but not the IR's punch and cab feels.

The Softube Marshalls (Unfortunately I still do not have the Kerry King)
Marshall Plexi 1959
'59 Plexi Best with default IRs
'59 Plexi With 4x12 Celestial IRs
'59 Plexi With Irs and PA BaxEQ on master
Used in a metal soundtrack
Softube '59 plexi used on Song= SOUND TEST

Marshall 2203
2203 with its best crappy IR (please softube, gemme a break)
2203 with IRs
2203 with a different IR
2203 with IR and EQ on master for the mix

Marshall Jubilee
2550 Alone with ok IRs (think they copied the GnRs)
2550 with decent IR
2550 with IRs and EQ on master
Extremely versatile like the real amp when clean
2550 in a goth track, on bass as well



Marshall Murder One (RIP Lemmy!!)
Murder One with own IRs (ok)
Murder One with decent IR
Murder One with Ir and EQ on Master
Murder One with IR-EQ master LOUD

Neural DSP Sims (Unfortunately I still do not have the Soldano)
Fortin Nameless
Nameless with original iR by Ole
Nameless with decent IR
Nameless with Ir and EQ'd master

Fortin Cali
Cali with own IR
Cali with decent IR
Calie with IR and EQ on master
Very nice ambient clean tones, the reverb is based on the Eventide blackhole
Song Star Trails



Omega
Omega with own IR
Omega with decent IR
Omega with decent IR using 6L6 Tubes and EQ on master
Omega with decent IR using EL34 Tubes and EQ on Master
Omega with decent IR using K66 Tunes and EQ on Master

Gojira
Gojira with own IR
Gojira with decent Soldano IR
Gojira with decent IR and EQ on Master-Guitar Bus

STL Tones
Howard Benson (for high gain the HB has a distortion pedal can that sounds like the Nameless when used but many dont know this)
HB alone (great work by Mike using Wizard IRs)
HB with only EQ on bus, sounds great
HB with a variation of EQ on bus-master etc many tones


Audiotory
Klirrton with own IR
Klittron with decent IR
Klittron with Decent IR and E on master or Bus

All decent IRs are by Mike Plotnikoff, Usually 25/30 Watt Celestion Blackbacks

Had no chance to test Audiotory Solidario and Randy, as well as
Nembrini,
BlueCats,
IK Multimedia Amplitube,
ML Sound Labs,
Plugin Alliance,
REVOLVER,
etc etc
 
I'm totally convinced we're basically there already (at least as far as replicating a mic'd up tone). There's still a few kinks to iron out with some modellers on how they handle impedance interactions with cabinets, and its a bit like the wild west with varying approaches and qualities of IR's. I've found time and time again that matching real amp tones with various modellers is pretty straightforward.

I genuinely think that the biggest gap in people achieving realistic tones with modellers is down to user error, and therefore there needs to be more emphasis placed on how the user interacts with the gear to get the desired result.
 
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