Egnater news

[Orren]

it's true that overall, US built stuff has better reputation than china one.

As you know, reputations change. For example, I remember shopping for guitars "back in the day" and guitars made in Japan were the "cheap knock offs" that were considered poor quality. As the years went on, MIJ stopped being the mark of crap, and that honor went to Korean made guitars. Then after a few years, Korean guitars stopped being considered the "lowest of the low" and that honor went to China. But of course, now it's already moving from China to Vietnam, etc.

In other words, it seems like wherever labor is cheapest, the reputation is worst. When another country offers cheaper prices and manufacturing moves there, the previous country's reputation goes up, and the new "labor bargain" county gets the low end rep.


To me, the important factors are 1) Bruce's designs and 2) The QA of the Egnater team.

Orren

 

[black_wizards]

yes yes yes!
I hope bruce will give us some news fast!

 

[bj4rd]

all i know if that i have had some randall and marshall amps that seemed to be in and out of the shop all the time with problems. My egnater preamp and VHT power amp have been the most reliable setup i have ever used. the randall stuff was designed by egnater but i guess the QA just wasn't good or maybe some bad parts were used. anyways, i just hope the egnater modular stuff is still a step above the quality of the randall modular stuff.

 

[3 Mile Stone]

Has anyone considered that maybe Bruce just doesnt want to actually build amps anymore? The first line of his bio on egnateramps.com says 'Bruce’s grandfather, Ed Kreske, once told him “Don’t be the guy who digs the ditches, be the guy who makes the shovels.”' Maybe he gets much more satisfaction out of the creative process of designing rather than physically building amps. He has built his company up to a point where he has a production facility that can meet his standards so maybe he feels like he doesnt need to "dig the ditches" anymore. If you dont like it, then dont buy his amps. But if you love the tone and innovation that comes out of his design, buy his amps. No one criticizes Jonathan Ive because the iPods he designed are built in China. Instead his designs get praised as revolutionary. Bruce has a history of pushing the boundaries of tube amp design. I suspect thats where he gets his satisfaction and thats what he wants to focus on because its creatively satisfying and also lucrative with outsourced labor.

Either way its your choice as a consumer. Just like its his choice to run his company how he sees fit.

Matt.


That ... makes sense.

 

[EWSEthan]

Has anyone considered that maybe Bruce just doesnt want to actually build amps anymore? The first line of his bio on egnateramps.com says 'Bruce’s grandfather, Ed Kreske, once told him “Don’t be the guy who digs the ditches, be the guy who makes the shovels.”' Maybe he gets much more satisfaction out of the creative process of designing rather than physically building amps. He has built his company up to a point where he has a production facility that can meet his standards so maybe he feels like he doesnt need to "dig the ditches" anymore. If you dont like it, then dont buy his amps. But if you love the tone and innovation that comes out of his design, buy his amps. No one criticizes Jonathan Ive because the iPods he designed are built in China. Instead his designs get praised as revolutionary. Bruce has a history of pushing the boundaries of tube amp design. I suspect thats where he gets his satisfaction and thats what he wants to focus on because its creatively satisfying and also lucrative with outsourced labor.

Either way its your choice as a consumer. Just like its his choice to run his company how he sees fit.

Matt.


That ... makes sense.

I try Tommy. I try...

 

[Resonant Alien]

.....don't....want....to.....type....but.....feel....I.....must.....feeling....compelled....can't...stop.....myself.....

So, I understand if people have strong feelings regarding the political aspect of "Made in China" - that's fine, agree to disagree....etc...

But, a lot of people seem to have an immediate assumption that "Made in China" = poor quality. And that's kind of a strange thing on an Egnater forum, of all places. I say that because just take a look at the Renegade, Tourmaster, Rebel series of products. All of these products are built in China, yet in general, the quality of all of these products is right up there with the US built stuff, IME/IMO. I understand that some people have had some QA issues with Rebels, etc., but then some people have also had QA issues with MOD50s, MOD100s and M4s...I had an issue with a loose jack when I first got my M4...

I know my Renegade head and my Tourmaster 212 were built like brick sh_thouses, and I had absolutely zero QA issues with either of them. I have two Genz Benz 212 cabs, made in Arizona, and the TM212 is actually a more sturdy build than the GBs. The Renegade head I had was built immaculately - no sloppy wiring, no cold solder joints, clean tolex seams, flat out solid.....

So IF the modular were moved to China (which Bruce never said it was going to be), I don't really see any immediate reason to assume that the quality would suffer.

I think the only real point of concern would be if different/lesser quality components were going to be used - which again is something that Bruce has never said would happen.

Does the Renegade sound as "good" as a MOD50? Subjective of course, but generally No, it doesn't. Is the reason because the Renegade is built in China and the MOD50 is built in the US? No. I believe the primary reason would be the parts used in the Renegade vs. the parts used in the MOD50 - less expensive transformers, caps, etc. vs. the hand selected/hand built components in the MOD50.

This is not a quality/production location issue - this is an issue of using high-grade parts vs. less expensive parts. If the Renegade were built in the US using the exact same parts, I doubt it would look or sound any different/better. I don't really see how the construction could be any more solid than it already is, and unless you change out the parts, the sound isn't' going to change just by building it here.

On another point: Bruce never said he is doing this to cut costs - not once did he say "I need to outsource modular production in order to reduce my production costs". He said he simply does not have the time to continue building them himself (with his wife and son). So, there is no reason to read into this that he is doing it to cut costs, or that it is going to be moved to China. He could just as easily move production to a contract manufacturer in Illinois, Alabama, Canada or the Czech Republic. He did imply that the modular stuff might end up being cheaper as a result, but the way that comment was worded, it seems more of a by-product of moving the production out of house rather than a primary driver for doing it in the first place.

As will all things though, I'm sure it will drive up the prices of the legacy "Made by Bruce" stuff, even if the new stuff is made exactly the same, with exactly the same quality, and sounds exactly the same - just like that $3000 Gilmour Strat really doesn't sound that much different than a $1000 American Standard

 

[guitarslinger]

.
Does the Renegade sound as "good" as a MOD50? Subjective of course, but generally No, it doesn't. Is the reason because the Renegade is built in China and the MOD50 is built in the US? No. I believe the primary reason would be the parts used in the Renegade vs. the parts used in the MOD50 - less expensive transformers, caps, etc. vs. the hand selected/hand built components in the MOD50.

good point, but how many Chinese amps have EVER used ultra-premium parts?

I guess we won't know anything until we open the next new Mod50 and see Heyboer Transformers and Sprague caps.

 

[RockStarNick]

As someone who has done some extensive module-modding, I can honestly say that the tone of the modules isn't coming from "hand selected components" or "premium components" - it's in the circuit design.

There's nothing in the modules, component wise, that is particularly special, unique, or rare. It's some Xicon caps, or equivalent, some run of the mill resistors, and some Silver Mica caps, etc, etc. Everything in there can easily be purchased at Mouser, or any other electronics component distributor. Which is pretty refreshing that great tone can come from normal stuff. There's no golden-dipped, snake-oil, antique-reissue ANYTHING inside a module.

Are the parts of higher-quality than the stock randall stuff? I assume so, because they look a little bigger and beefier.

So, my point is, if the components remain the SAME (at least in the modules), the tone will remain the same as well.

I can't really comment on the Mod50 itself, as I've only seen the inside of one once or twice.

 

[rynnce]

Is the modular stuff actually moving outside the U.S.?

I would hope not, because the reason I picked the mod50 over some other amps was the fact that it's made in the U.S.

 

[sumis]

Is the modular stuff actually moving outside the U.S.?

I would hope not, because the reason I picked the mod50 over some other amps was the fact that it's made in the U.S.

next time you might consider what tones the gear produces instead.

.

 

[Brain2Me2]

I believe in the end, the whole point of what this thread has become is, the market value of the Egnater modular line after this announcement, or after it becomes a reality. "Everyone" is worried that what their thought was boutique, isn't going to be anymore. Everyone is worried that they spent a lot of money in their modular stuff. When I say Everyone I'm including myself of course.

If Egnater amps were made "elsewhere" from the beginning this would've been a different story...We wouldn't have cared about the change. But having an amp that the man himself built with his own hands, and thoroughly checked until it was perfect, now that I really appreciate.

Like when I sent mine to check a little noise, he didn't want to send it to me until he found what was the source of the noise, and indeed he found it. Some of us just want that special treatment and are willing to pay for it.


But...
...I also have to say that, if I were in Bruce's shoes and had this opportunity, to expand and become one of the main players of the game, I would take it in the blink of an eye...Why? Because of all the sacrifices he had to go though to get to this point, his whole history with other brands...I Bruce, am Happy for you!!!

Best,
Carlos

 

[PSGuitar]

I think Bruce will keep making them in the USA in a new shop...that's all.

I compared my Mod 50 to a bunch of boutique amps recently and I still can't find anything better. With the right power tubes it has all the balls and punch I need, the feel is out of this world, very dynamic. Best I have found and I have played my share.

Nick I believe the components on the boards do make a difference. I hear a huge difference between the Randalls and the Egnaters....untill the Randalls are modded that is.

 

[rynnce]

Is the modular stuff actually moving outside the U.S.?

I would hope not, because the reason I picked the mod50 over some other amps was the fact that it's made in the U.S.

next time you might consider what tones the gear produces instead.

.

Next time if you can't answer my question move on.

 

[sumis]

Is the modular stuff actually moving outside the U.S.?

I would hope not, because the reason I picked the mod50 over some other amps was the fact that it's made in the U.S.

next time you might consider what tones the gear produces instead.

.

Next time if you can't answer my question move on.

i didn't know that one had to answer your questions to post on this forum.

your post had two parts. the first part was a question. the other part a commentary. my post was a commentary to your commentary, and that is what boards like these are (partly) for. if you can't take that, then you should only have asked your question, right? especially since what you wrote begs for a comment.

if we're not allowed to comment on your stated reasons to buy a mod50, then you should keep those reasons to yourself. you should at least be prepared to discuss them.

.