If you were going to purchase a Kemper, AXEFX, or Synergy gear…

[cragginshred]

Synergy lasted 10 mins before it was boxed up and sent back. Nothing like the real thing in the room.
I use an FM9 and dig it, but my real amps still rule!

The kempers I had were very dark and compressed. 95% of the dozens of profiles I sampled were horrid. Needed tons of tweaking to end up still compressed
Marshall Top Jimi were ok but less gain meant more thin and crappy sounding -talking in the room live volumes. Recorded you can make them all sound good

 

[ghosty999]

Digital always win in practicality, features and total cost of acquisition.

But what if you did not need that many stuff that is packed in, could you change your mind?

I'd likely still use an old AxeFX 2 with some simple presets. Set and forget sorta style. Run through a power amp at rehearsal or mixer at shows.

Honestly if I don't take the Fractal, I have a 3U with a JMP-1, Lexicon Multi and a Palmer 402 power amp I'd take. Has the 4 pedal switcher so I'd commit to 4 presets synced with the Lexicon.

What about you?

 

[tallcoolone]

Digital always win in practicality, features and total cost of acquisition.

But what if you did not need that many stuff that is packed in, could you change your mind?

No need to use everything…once you get a killer scene dialed in just enjoy it.

 

[alund]

I’m stupid when it comes to digital shit. Fractal is easy. You don’t even have to read.. videos all over the net on how to use. Lots of good programs already. Can tweak whatever. Put in order of song lists. I use my Voodoo labs controller to change sounds. I’ll learn a few things then play. I won’t sit for hours and fuck with stuff. Back starts to hurt.

 

[Crunchity]

Same as previous post. It seemed apparent to me the Fractal unit could be just as easy as it is deep and I convinced myself I didn't need to "master" the damn thing, just so long as it was capable of delivering great tones and effects with a few handy ways to connect to my DAW I was in.

I'm a life long tube amp guy and have been mic'ing cabs forever as well, but when my retired father moved in with me a couple years ago so I could take care of him, I needed a QUIET/direct recording option. Being new to modeling and impatient as hell I was hesitant lol but after a few months of homework I went with the AXE FX III Mk II, it just sounds so good for the tones I chase. I hate learning curves tho but realized there was a ton of smarter tone nerds with way more experience out their sharing their work online, figured all I needed to do was start grabbing stuff I liked and tweak taste. I'm still thrilled with my choice.

 

[tallcoolone]

You have to go through the Eventide website and put in your serial number. For now it works via USB via your computer.
Bluetooth and IOS will be coming at some point soon.

Ah, thanks—yes I have the editor but it is pretty clunky IMO. Hoping a new iOS app gets released that has an easier UI.

 

[SFW]

I owned an Axe FX II XL. I got some good tones out of it but felt like I spent more time tweaking settings than I did actually playing. I traded it for a Kemper head and haven't looked back. I have a friend that has the III. I will say that the III feels much better to play than the II XL I had. I still prefer my Kemper. It just feels better under the fingers to me. You do have to search a bit for a good profile, but once you find it, you're golden. And while there may not be as many effects in the Kemper, they are high quality effects. Some, like Crystals, I prefer the Kemper version of.

I love my Engl Savage 120 Mk II, but have no issues with gigging my Kemper.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Yeah, if you’re prone to not leaving well enough alone, a Fractal unit can be a time sucker. There’s a distinction here though; the unit doesn’t make you tweak, YOU make you tweak. After enough time on the forums and seeing how other people handle it, it’s obvious that some people see all the areas to tweak and if they aren’t getting a killer sound within 5 minutes, think they need to start tweaking the deeper features. That’s the opposite way to go.

My best advice is to pick an amp you’re familiar with and leave the knobs at noon, then find an IR that’s 90% in the ballpark of the tone you’re going for and use the knobs for the final 10%. Doing it the other way around is a rabbit hole that never gives the desired results because you’re either trying to add what isn’t there or take away too much of what is. Think of it as mic’ing a cab in a spot that sounds like shit and then trying to dial the shit out with the amp, it ain’t gonna work, ya know? An IR is just a snapshot of a mic at a certain point on a cab. Move the fucking mic.

The only amps you can’t do that with are Mesa’s because you have to dial them in like the actual amps and anyone who has played a Mark before knows they sound like shit with standard amp settings.

Another advantage to it all is the Block Library; I have a bunch of IR’s stored as cab blocks for specific sounding amps; I have a few saved for Mesa/Peavey amps, Marshall/Friedman’s, Fender, etc. IR’s already paired together that I know will work with certain amps so I don’t go down a rabbit hole searching for IR’s.

Also, Cliff just previewed a pic of the new cab block their updating, it’s going to have movable mic positions like the Helix/QC, so no more singular IR’s, you can now drag a mic across a speaker to find the sweet spot. Well, once it’s released anyway.

Like I said in a previous post, the majority of my go-to tones are just an amp-cab-delay-reverb. I never use any additional EQ in the Fractal (I used to before Cygnus) or any multiband comp stuff, it’s un-needed it you find the right IR first. Doesn’t matter if it’s a scooped metal tone or a bluesy Strat tone-

Marshall Superlead-

(I’m using a Dry Bell Vibe with that one)

Dual Rec/IIC++, both amps are hard panned and for the double track I reversed the panning, so both amps are on both L and R after doubling. Only have the amp/cab blocks activated in that preset.

 

[Crunchity]

Yeah, if you’re prone to not leaving well enough alone, a Fractal unit can be a time sucker. There’s a distinction here though; the unit doesn’t make you tweak, YOU make you tweak. After enough time on the forums and seeing how other people handle it, it’s obvious that some people see all the areas to tweak and if they aren’t getting a killer sound within 5 minutes, think they need to start tweaking the deeper features. That’s the opposite way to go.

My best advice is to pick an amp you’re familiar with and leave the knobs at noon, then find an IR that’s 90% in the ballpark of the tone you’re going for and use the knobs for the final 10%. Doing it the other way around is a rabbit hole that never gives the desired results because you’re either trying to add what isn’t there or take away too much of what is. Think of it as mic’ing a cab in a spot that sounds like shit and then trying to dial the shit out with the amp, it ain’t gonna work, ya know? An IR is just a snapshot of a mic at a certain point on a cab. Move the fucking mic.

The only amps you can’t do that with are Mesa’s because you have to dial them in like the actual amps and anyone who has played a Mark before knows they sound like shit with standard amp settings.

Another advantage to it all is the Block Library; I have a bunch of IR’s stored as cab blocks for specific sounding amps; I have a few saved for Mesa/Peavey amps, Marshall/Friedman’s, Fender, etc. IR’s already paired together that I know will work with certain amps so I don’t go down a rabbit hole searching for IR’s.

Also, Cliff just previewed a pic of the new cab block their updating, it’s going to have movable mic positions like the Helix/QC, so no more singular IR’s, you can now drag a mic across a speaker to find the sweet spot. Well, once it’s released anyway.

Bingo. We sound like similar Axe Fx users lol. After getting comfy with the unit and Axe Edit the first thing I did was go through and find a handful of killer sounding amps (IR's as well) and even went through the trouble of making quick scratch tracks of them to save for reference (my ears sometimes lie to me, it's handy to check back). Then I learned how to make a few handy general tweaks and that's it, I can dial in what I'm looking for pretty quickly now. I just use those models I like and mess with the low/hi cut thingy on the cab page, the tone stack tool (really fun to play with) and a few other simple moves, nothing fancy. All in all I have about a dozen amazing models I love and 10 or so cab/IR's that work really well with them all, mix and matching, etc. Done! No different than what I do with my real amps, cabs and mics and best of all, no distractions!

 

[RevDrucifer]

Bingo. We sound like similar Axe Fx users lol. After getting comfy with the unit and Axe Edit the first thing I did was go through and find a handful of killer sounding amps (IR's as well) and even went through the trouble of making quick scratch tracks of them to save for reference (my ears sometimes lie to me, it's handy to check back). Then I learned how to make a few handy general tweaks and that's it, I can dial in what I'm looking for pretty quickly now. I just use those models I like and mess with the low/hi cut thingy on the cab page, the tone stack tool (really fun to play with) and a few other simple moves, nothing fancy. All in all I have about a dozen amazing models I love and 10 or so cab/IR's that work really well with them all, mix and matching, etc. Done! No different than what I do with my amps, cabs and mics and no distractions!

I started using the Tonestack to try to make a Snorkler using a Bogner tonestack into a JCM800, but I didn’t spend a whole lot of time with it. All I have for reference is the isolated AIC tracks on YouTube, but I’ll get there eventually!

I’ve learned my lesson about my lying ears a while ago after ruining a couple mixes. Some days I hear treble WAY more than others and I learned that when that happens I need to ignore it because I’ll fuck everything up. I have some presets that say DO NOT TWEAK in the name because I KNOW they sound great when my ears aren’t fucking with me.

 

[Crunchity]

^^ I went through something similar when I started taking those previously mentioned favorite crunchy amp models/cabs and started double tracking some of them in a mix....I had a "WHOOPS" moment lol, suddenly they were off the mark (too bright or too dark) alongside drums, bass, etc. I spent too much time playing and refining the tones sort of "in the raw", comparing them to other fav sample files I like, etc. I made the tweaks and moved on. Now I simply have a folder with saved and labeled reference clips/tracks ("darker", "bright", "chewy", "lead", etc) and their corresponding preset numbers...but all ready for prime time (mix friendly ).

 

[Banned by IK Multmedia]

I'd likely still use an old AxeFX 2 with some simple presets. Set and forget sorta style. Run through a power amp at rehearsal or mixer at shows.

Honestly if I don't take the Fractal, I have a 3U with a JMP-1, Lexicon Multi and a Palmer 402 power amp I'd take. Has the 4 pedal switcher so I'd commit to 4 presets synced with the Lexicon.

What about you?

Oh Axe FX is great at what it is supposed to do but i would go analog any time i can. Between your options JMP-1 any day, by the way i wish Marshall reissued the JMP-1, the ADA MP-1 was also great. Digital is just not "earphonic", it is not a natural sound wave as found in nature. You may not perceive difference but the brain does and gets tired. That is why virtually no one records with digital amps, listeners would get tired sooner than they would if it was analog.

 

[ghosty999]

Oh Axe FX is great at what it is supposed to do but i would go analog any time i can. Between your options JMP-1 any day, by the way i wish Marshall reissued the JMP-1, the ADA MP-1 was also great. Digital is just not "earphonic", it is not a natural sound wave as found in nature. You may not perceive difference but the brain does and gets tired. That is why virtually no one records with digital amps, listeners would get tired sooner than they would if it was analog.

I totally agree on the JMP-1 and ADA MP-1 part! I'd love a re-issue. Imagine a 2U rack JMP-1 with a EL84/20/20 valve power stage built in!

We may disagree on the analog / digital debate however. As soon as that amp signal from the Mic hits the DAW, it's now a digital signal. The number of folks going from amp straight to tape is low. Everyone is sending their analogue signals to be converted into 0s and 1s to be played back as 0s and 1s. I agree digital can lack the analogue artifacting and reactions, but I disagree that no one is recording with digital. Most folks in the mid-rage circles are using Modelers, Digital Effects, Plugins etc on their guitar tones.

For anyone who claims they can hear the difference, I'd expect they'd pass an A/B test with flying colors, but I've never seen it happen. So I wonder how much is just listening with our eyes? Great discussion either way.

 

[Strandberg Junkie]

For anyone who claims they can hear the difference, I'd expect they'd pass an A/B test with flying colors, but I've never seen it happen.

If a test is set up right there isn't anyone with the quality of the digital gear these days who could tell just by listening - except maybe an audiologist.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

They are all good, it really depends on specific needs/goals
But in general, if I had to pick only 1, it is Kemper. It sounds phenomenal ( I profile my own amps) and it is super easy to transport and set up live.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Digital is just not "earphonic", it is not a natural sound wave as found in nature. You may not perceive difference but the brain does and gets tired. That is why virtually no one records with digital amps, listeners would get tired sooner than they would if it was analog.

Yeah, I know when I walk out of my house every morning I love being greeted by the sounds of Dual Recs and Plexi’s just existing in nature, making sound all on their own.

You’re a special one, aren’t ya, buddy?

 

[MistaGuitah]

Fractal AxeFX for several reasons. First, Kemper prices have gone up a couple hundred $$. I love Kempers and think they have an arguably superior sound to other modelers, though their profiling is a little outdated. I like it as much as the Quad Cortex, but the QC has kind of more realistic modeling. To me, it doesn't have quite as much low end girth as Kemper, but as far as amp profiles, it's got an edge in replicating the real amps.

Fractal, on the other hand, cannot be measured the same as Kemper because you're dealing with individual, highly configurable, virtual amps. Kemper has an amazing tone but it does something peculiar or unique in the mid range. I can't articulate exactly what that is but the Kemper sort of inparts a warm mid range flavor to profiles, and I kind of like that because it's sort of an organic quality. The Quad Cortex doesn't seem to add anything so it's profiles are very true to the real amp. It's the same with Fractal because the amps are true virtual amps that are nearly indistinguishable from the real ones.

Fractal has such amazing tone and feel. It's very accurate to the real amps and sounds so darn good in recordings. I have little experience using it in band practice so I can't say how it compares to a Kemper powered head. However, it has no problem sitting in a live mix as long as your using powered speakers or a good power amp.

Now Synergy is a whole different animal. The preamps contributed by the amp manufacturers are awesome - way better than the Randall/Egnater stuff that started the whole thing. The modules actually sound and feel like different amps when using a tube power amp, one of their tube heads, or their modular slot devices, which is something the Randall/Egnater stuff could only do to a limited extent because those modules tended to sound very similar.

However, the Synergy modular tube amps - and this is only my experience so I'm not saying I'm this applies to them as a company or to all their products - do not seem like boutique quality. I won't go into too much detail because I'm not trying to stir up controversy, but I've gone through a couple and they weren't very reliable. Synergy amps offer a lot for the money yet, paradoxically, the quality isn't necessarily commensurate with the cost either.

I inspected a new one and then played it for a couple of hours only to find out the one of the tube sockets cracked. The second one had a cheap input jack that quickly became loose and fell off and cheap, scratchy pots that didn't have a good sweep. It was hugely disappointing because I love that their tube amps come with a clean channel so you don't have to buy an extra module for clean & dirty sounds. Their amps look nice and seem like high quality on the outside. However, I think they could put some better quality components without adding to the cost if they wanted to.

Now I will say that I had two of their SYN-1 devices for about a year and they worked very well. However, I think they don't have a headphone jack because I remember having to use my Two-Notes Torpedo CAB into some speakers just to practice with them.

The thing about Synergy though is you don't really buy them to have a wide variety of amps. There's only so much module swapping you can do for practical purposes, so you won't get nearly the variety of Fractal or Kemper. Not only that, a lot of guys spend waste tike messing around and swapping modules instead of really putting them to use nd getting to know them, so they'll typically give glowing reviews but then turn right around and sell the stuff.

If you're going to buy Synergy then don't go into it with the mindset that you're going to have all these awesome amps to play with because you'll end up selling the stuff like the other people. What you want to do is make it just a basic amp platform that can give you some really enjoyable sounds, then slowly over time, add a couple of modules to your collection.

The thing is you'll eventually be able to dial in some great sounds and find a combination that works for you most of the time. As long as you're purposeful in selecting spare modules, you'll find some utility for them every now and then. Basically, you approach Synergy like you would a multi-channel amp instead of like several amps. If you go in thinking you're going to have Diezels, Bogners, Fenders, etc., you'll end up losing a taste for them and sell it all.

You really need to get comfortable and experienced with one or two modules before considering a third. Then, like I said, don't think you'll have this stack of modules for an any-amp rig because it's not practical or realistic for the most part. If you get a Synergy amp and keep it for a long time, chances are you only use a few modules. I don't know how many times I saw dudes pile up a stack of modules and sell everything within a few weeks of acquiring them.

Put it this way: Let's say you've always wanted a Metropulous Metroplex but couldn't afford one. Then you set yourself up with Synergy Metroplex module and get darned near your dream amp. That's why Synergy devices have only 1 or 2 slots. Even if they had a 6-slot amp, it wouldn't be practical, and you'd never settle enough to love one because you'll always be switching from one to the next and quickly lose interest all together.

Overall, Fractal has such great sound, flexibility, value, quality, and maintains contemporary relevance that I'd pick them over any other modeler/profiler, and over Synergy too. I love the sound of Kempers but what I get with my FM3 for half the price of a Kemper is by far a better value. With things like Quad Cortex for $1899 and now even the Tonex for $499 (which actually rivals both) Kemper is essentially too expensive as far as I'm concerned. I would probably have a Synergy amp if they improved the quality a little because they really would be a good value.

 

[Crunchity]

Yeah, I know when I walk out of my house every morning I love being greeted by the sounds of Dual Recs and Plexi’s just existing in nature, making sound all on their own.

You’re a special one, aren’t ya, buddy?

No way?! I think I've been missing out! Every afternoon when I go for a run I like to listen to the sounds of nature through my earbuds and mp3 player, it helps me keep a relaxed pace - I guess I need to take them out and start listening to the amps signing in the trees, might even make me run better!

 

[Banned by IK Multmedia]

Yeah, I know when I walk out of my house every morning I love being greeted by the sounds of Dual Recs and Plexi’s just existing in nature, making sound all on their own.

You’re a special one, aren’t ya, buddy?

Such a loser you are. Just get informed in the very basics of audio:

https://www.guru99.com/analog-vs-digital.html
The waves coming out of Plexis are no different from the ones around you in the nature.

 

[Banned by IK Multmedia]

I totally agree on the JMP-1 and ADA MP-1 part! I'd love a re-issue. Imagine a 2U rack JMP-1 with a EL84/20/20 valve power stage built in!

We may disagree on the analog / digital debate however. As soon as that amp signal from the Mic hits the DAW, it's now a digital signal. The number of folks going from amp straight to tape is low. Everyone is sending their analogue signals to be converted into 0s and 1s to be played back as 0s and 1s. I agree digital can lack the analogue artifacting and reactions, but I disagree that no one is recording with digital. Most folks in the mid-rage circles are using Modelers, Digital Effects, Plugins etc on their guitar tones.

For anyone who claims they can hear the difference, I'd expect they'd pass an A/B test with flying colors, but I've never seen it happen. So I wonder how much is just listening with our eyes? Great discussion either way.

No one is listening to analog media really but the more digital layers the worst the signal waves get. Recording an analog amp in a digital media is better than recording a digital amp in the same media or even analog media. The more layers of digital stuff in the chain the worse it gets.

Being able to tell the difference is not the point but how your brain proccess it.