Is any amp in the same league as a Wizard?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MadAsAHatter
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glpg80 said:
Sounds like someone’s mad a $50 pedal is competing with a $5,500 amplifier that has them in the amp instead. I knew the second I shared that clip someone would be along to piss on it.
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Man, if it sounds good it sounds good. I can do it with my larry without diodes, and thats what i do most of the time. But I fucking love jubes, and they, and tons of other amps get alot of gain from them.

As well as boosting - my go-to for backline gigs (almost always a dsl, but sometimes an 800) was an sd1, a voodoo laps sparkle drive (its the next bad monkey as far as cheap, good tube screamers, AND has a clean blend) and a high quality klone. Mythical Rimrock and KTR were the ones I used forever, but i have a lawrence petross saguaro that does everything I need a klone to do in a mini format with one knob.

Also certain amps, like boogies in my experience, almost HAVE to have a boost in front to sound good for heavy rhythm.

That laney sounds fucking sick. It reminds me of boosting a really good JMP or 2203 with an sd1.
 
jharpersj said:
I have had several and nothing is better to my ears, the new MC MK2 version is mind blowing. That being said $5,500 for an amp? There are many other amps that are awesome for way less money.
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Is this the MCII MK2? Someone else mentioned there was a MK2 coming out but not available to the public yet.
 
I would have to say that VHT/Fryette has a similar type of tone and feel to the Wizards and like MHenson states you can find them more reasonably priced. Since MHenson has a slew of Wizards and he keeps his VHT/Fryettes around still says something.
 
Wizards are great at what they do. Like any other amp.
Right tool for the job.
The premise of the topic depends on the type of music and tone one desires to achieve.

I have an opportunity to pick up a Headfirst MC2 clone tomorrow. Looking forward to that.
 
LPMojoGL said:
Wizards are great at what they do. Like any other amp.
Right tool for the job.
The premise of the topic depends on the type of music and tone one desires to achieve.
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and the type of player.
 
DanTravis62 said:
and the type of player.
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For sure.
I think most people get similar tones from whatever gear they're playing thru. Some gear is a better fit than others.
For me, I like a variety.
So I can do this, Wizard:


Or this, Vox AC15:
https://soundclick.com/r/s8jhh3
Or this, can't remember amp, made it on the spot to put my gf to sleep:
https://soundclick.com/r/s8iux7
And a whole bunch of other things.
Honestly, I think I could make do and get similar sounds with whatever amp and a couple pedals.
 
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glpg80 said:
Sounds like someone’s mad a $50 pedal is competing with a $5,500 amplifier that has them in the amp instead. I knew the second I shared that clip someone would be along to piss on it.
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Why would I be mad? Where did I piss on it? You made the diode comment multiple times, hence my comment / question. I haven’t listened to your clip yet, will when I get to my studio to listen. Ive played that amp before, it was ok.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Man, if it sounds good it sounds good. I can do it with my larry without diodes, and thats what i do most of the time. But I fucking love jubes, and they, and tons of other amps get alot of gain from them.

As well as boosting - my go-to for backline gigs (almost always a dsl, but sometimes an 800) was an sd1, a voodoo laps sparkle drive (its the next bad monkey as far as cheap, good tube screamers, AND has a clean blend) and a high quality klone. Mythical Rimrock and KTR were the ones I used forever, but i have a lawrence petross saguaro that does everything I need a klone to do in a mini format with one knob.

Also certain amps, like boogies in my experience, almost HAVE to have a boost in front to sound good for heavy rhythm.

That laney sounds fucking sick. It reminds me of boosting a really good JMP or 2203 with an sd1.
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I agree with what you said about boogies but the mark 3+ I just got back from Mike B is unreal huge and full with out a boost .‘I wish you could try in person . I’m super impressed with it
 
Greazygeo said:
Why would I be mad? Where did I piss on it? You made the diode comment multiple times, hence my comment / question. I haven’t listened to your clip yet, will when I get to my studio to listen. Ive played that amp before, it was ok.
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I took your comment to mean something negatively connotative. Diodes in the amp have a different purpose than those in front. It’s used to add compression and odd harmonic content but also butchers headroom - look at the many Jose circuit conversations that exist for validation.

A boost serves an entirely different purpose to tighten up an amp and the diodes in an SD-1 are clipping the signal without sacrificing the amplifiers headroom. It’s normally not as pronounced hence my comment.

It’s also not permanent.

The Laney GH100S first 3 stages are legitimately a JCM800. The fourth stage is custom. It retains a cathode follower to drive the tonestack just as a JCM800 does. It’s basically a level playing field to the Wizard which is also 4 gain stages and Marshall based.

The difference is that the clean headroom in the Laney makes the low input an excellent clean tone since the clipping diodes aren’t in the amp but in front of it with an SD-1. It also makes it a great volume roller type amp if that’s the type of player you are.

It was also $4,000 cheaper. I’m pretty proud of how it’s dialed in given how low under the radar they fly.

So that’s why I mentioned it, nothing more meant by it other than to state it’s capable of much more versatility by simply turning off the boost. The wizard does two things great - cleans and rhythm playing. But I need more than that in the dynamics department at $5k. I also can’t stand how naturally hollow they sound to my ears, but I know that’s something many others hear differently.
 
glpg80 said:
I took your comment to mean something negatively connotative. Diodes in the amp have a different purpose than those in front. It’s used to add compression and odd harmonic content but also butchers headroom - look at the many Jose circuit conversations that exist for validation.

A boost serves an entirely different purpose to tighten up an amp and the diodes in an SD-1 are clipping the signal without sacrificing the amplifiers headroom. It’s normally not as pronounced hence my comment.

It’s also not permanent.

The Laney GH100S first 3 stages are legitimately a JCM800. The fourth stage is custom. It retains a cathode follower to drive the tonestack just as a JCM800 does. It’s basically a level playing field to the Wizard which is also 4 gain stages and Marshall based.

The difference is that the clean headroom in the Laney makes the low input an excellent clean tone since the clipping diodes aren’t in the amp but in front of it with an SD-1. It also makes it a great volume roller type amp if that’s the type of player you are.

It was also $4,000 cheaper. I’m pretty proud of how it’s dialed in given how low under the radar they fly.

So that’s why I mentioned it, nothing more meant by it other than to state it’s capable of much more versatility by simply turning off the boost. The wizard does two things great - cleans and rhythm playing. But I need more than that in the dynamics department at $5k. I also can’t stand how naturally hollow they sound to my ears, but I know that’s something many others hear differently.
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I must ask, which Wizard are you referring to? I don’t get the “hollow” mids thing, which one is voiced this way? Mine isn’t. My rhythm channel is the AC/DC Dirty Deeds tone, Lead Channel is Back in Black with more gain. If I use the built in boost it is like adding the Sd-1.

I grew up playing plexis…my main one a ‘69 100 watt. Used (and still do on occasion) use an SD-1. So yes a volume roller. Have had probably 25-30 Marshalls over the years and done tons of 4 hour gigs with them. They all do this and is what I hate about them. First set, it sounds ok…halfway thru second set really great sound…towards the end of third set amp starts getting mushy From transformers getting too hot.….last set is miserable cause amp is too muddy. In that window where it sounds great, its excellent.

With my Wizard, amp sounds like my plexi did halfway thru second set from the get go and stays that way all the way thru the nite at gig volumes. IME these amps are made to be played in a gig environment and is where they shine. Thru a nice pa is excellent. Very big sounding. Mine is really versatile and has dynamics, works for me. For lower volume stuff, mine isn’t that great, but I don’t use it for that. Just gigging and some recording ( most times its my Marshall for recording).

Agree they are stupid expensive, it has been my main amp since 2005. Still have my old Marshalls, 1959RR and 74 Hiwatt Custom Lead 100….they are all great and different sounding. Gigged a 5150 block letter bought new when they first came out for quite awhile too. Nice amp. Also an UL which was also very nice. Not a fan of the saturated stuff.

Lots of amps out there, good to find whatever ya like.
 
Laney are very cheap in EU and I had all irritations of GH100/VH100's, even some modded to be more JCM800ish. But they never come even close to JCM800. Not enough mids and always harsh top end no matter what You do and still does't cut thru band. I blame those toroid trannys as I never liked any amp which used them. Personally I like LC30/50 combos more for rock music. Built quality is one of the worst in the amp business and made in UK means it fells apart sooner than later : ) I can use PC plugin and have it for 4999$ cheaper than Wizard amp and nobody on YT can't hear difference...is this conversation we make here ?
 
Greazygeo said:
I must ask, which Wizard are you referring to? I don’t get the “hollow” mids thing, which one is voiced this way? Mine isn’t.
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Yeah, it is. His models have been reverse engineered on other forums and the only difference between an MTL and an MCII is an added gain stage and some bells and whistles. They’re 90% identical. They all exhibit the same character where you trade mids for gain with common modifications used for decades.

As far as quality is concerned the dude just recently figured out how to make channel popping stop with an “upgrade” other members speak of, but you go on and tell me how build quality is excellent for $5,000…

Greazygeo said:
I grew up playing plexis…my main one a ‘69 100 watt. Used (and still do on occasion) use an SD-1. So yes a volume roller. Have had probably 25-30 Marshalls over the years and done tons of 4 hour gigs with them. They all do this and is what I hate about them. First set, it sounds ok…halfway thru second set really great sound…towards the end of third set amp starts getting mushy From transformers getting too hot.….last set is miserable cause amp is too muddy. In that window where it sounds great, its excellent.
Click to expand...

I grew up running the 5150 II below in my signature through set list after set list and not a single problem like that ever happened. As long as I fed it tubes every 3 months, and I kept spare preamp tubes since they lay horizontally and were more prone to go microphonic, it was dead reliable. Regarding your 68, It sounds like a bias runaway issue - commanding more current from the PT which pulls your B+ lower, modifying how the amp sounds and also feels. I run a completely different circuit for the bias network on my 74 than stock for this very reason.

Greazygeo said:
With my Wizard, amp sounds like my plexi did halfway thru second set from the get go and stays that way all the way thru the nite at gig volumes. IME these amps are made to be played in a gig environment and is where they shine. Thru a nice pa is excellent. Very big sounding. Mine is really versatile and has dynamics, works for me. For lower volume stuff, mine isn’t that great, but I don’t use it for that. Just gigging and some recording ( most times its my Marshall for recording).

Agree they are stupid expensive, it has been my main amp since 2005. Still have my old Marshalls, 1959RR and 74 Hiwatt Custom Lead 100….they are all great and different sounding. Gigged a 5150 block letter bought new when they first came out for quite awhile too. Nice amp. Also an UL which was also very nice. Not a fan of the saturated stuff.

Lots of amps out there, good to find whatever ya like.
Click to expand...

Agreed on all ends. Play what you like. Most expensive amp I own is the metroplex at $4,000. It’s got the features and build quality I prefer.
 
bubucci said:
Laney are very cheap in EU and I had all irritations of GH100/VH100's, even some modded to be more JCM800ish. But they never come even close to JCM800. Not enough mids and always harsh top end no matter what You do and still does't cut thru band. I blame those toroid trannys as I never liked any amp which used them. Personally I like LC30/50 combos more for rock music. Built quality is one of the worst in the amp business and made in UK means it fells apart sooner than later : ) I can use PC plugin and have it for 4999$ cheaper than Wizard amp and nobody on YT can't hear difference...is this conversation we make here ?
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The GH100L is not the same as the GH100TI/S. The latter does sound more Marshall, the former more classic Laney voiced. I don’t speak for all of their product line but I know my amp is one model they got right. I have no interest in the others they offer or even their current product line. But every Laney I have played has been rock solid and loud as fuck. I’ve had no issues cutting through a band mix with a GH100TI in the past.
 
glpg80 said:
Yeah, it is. His models have been reverse engineered on other forums and the only difference between an MTL and an MCII is an added gain stage and some bells and whistles. They’re 90% identical. They all exhibit the same character where you trade mids for gain with common modifications used for decades.

As far as quality is concerned the dude just recently figured out how to make channel popping stop with an “upgrade” other members speak of, but you go on and tell me how build quality is excellent for $5,000…



I grew up running the 5150 II below in my signature through set list after set list and not a single problem like that ever happened. As long as I fed it tubes every 3 months, and I kept spare preamp tubes since they lay horizontally and were more prone to go microphonic, it was dead reliable. Regarding your 68, It sounds like a bias runaway issue - commanding more current from the PT which pulls your B+ lower, modifying how the amp sounds and also feels. I run a completely different circuit for the bias network on my 74 than stock for this very reason.



Agreed on all ends. Play what you like. Most expensive amp I own is the metroplex at $4,000. It’s got the features and build quality I prefer.
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So which one has hollow mids? If you were referring to me, I am not an amp builder so not my place to justify to you or anyone what is or isn’t worth what is charged. Thats up to the market to shake out.

Trading mids for gain? Who does that? Makes no sense. Gain builds up in the bass frequencies first, so I can see that. Never played an MTL or MCII, maybe those are voiced different.

As for my 5150, never had any issues with it at all. Never even changed tubes for the entire 8 years I had it. It has the Sylvania 6l6’s. Cool amp.

My issues with Marshalls have nothing to do with bias. Always ran them cool since they were always run hard. Heat soak of the transformers. Just had to live with it back then.

Listened to you clip last nite, sounds good. I don’t go for that much gain, but sounds cool.
 
I played a GH100 long ago. Nice amp, no doubt. Like the Peavey VTM is a nice amp. Both have their fans, rightly so. But I found that as good as they are, they still pale a bit to a 2203 with a boost. They didn’t hold up as well under high volume, like the 2203 did. Didn’t sound as good. But sounded good enough that, if you want to save some cash you could do a lot worse.
When it comes to the 2 Wizards I owned, the MTL did have a mid scoop that I didn’t care for. The MC100 was amazing, and I would have searched out another had I not bought my 72 Trem. No hollow mids on the MC. Thing about Wizards is this: other than a Superlead or HiWatt nothing pushes air the way they do, in my experience. Not even the C+ Coliseum at 180w could stay with it…mostly because of the mids. If you enjoy great clarity with power that very few amps have, try a Wizard. If those two things aren’t important to you, pass.
 
tlp1234 said:
Yup.....too bad you can't try before you buy a Wizard.

I got my first one in the blind. I'd read about them, heard numerous clips over many years. I'm definitely NO AUTHORITY on them. Folks here and across the forums have many, many more for much longer than me.......
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What a cool story tlp1234. Thanks for sharing (y)
 
Want hollow mids? Play Wizard. Want to converse with hollow minds? Check out OTC.
 
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