Is any amp in the same league as a Wizard?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MadAsAHatter
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Since we're talking in terms of sound, feel, and the like you are right. Better doesn't exist and everyone has their own opinion. I don't really have the option to try before I buy. I don't have much of an opportunity to make my own 1 to 1 comparisons either. This leaves me with having to purchase amps outright to play and compare. With the price tag of a Wizard I really have to weigh the decision of working toward getting one or not. I have a decent feel for most active member's style and tonal needs and most usually offer straight forward and level headed opinions. Even if they are all different they can help me decided if a Wizard is worth perusing or if I'd rather focus my attention elsewhere.

If I do eventually decide to get a Wizard I want to go into it with realistic expectations and better confidence that it was worth the efforts to save for one. Other forums sing the praises of Wizards like they blast rainbow unicorn farts out the speakers, magically make your sound 1000 times better, then vacuum the floors, make the bed and empty the cat box for you. As mentioned I find most here have more realistic and levelheaded opinions and expectations. Wizards may or may not be my cup o tea, I just don't want to be disappointed because I had the wrong mindset going in. Opinions from you all here help a lot with that.
Yup.....too bad you can't try before you buy a Wizard.

I got my first one in the blind. I'd read about them, heard numerous clips over many years. I'm definitely NO AUTHORITY on them. Folks here and across the forums have many, many more for much longer than me.

For what it's worth, what drew me to them was I wanted something based on my favorite Marshall of all time, JMP50 MKII. Mine was from 1980's best I could tell. Decades ago I played thru a number of them before finding one I liked. I tried many other Marshalls of the the day and was astonished how inconsistent they were even among the same models. That amp sadly perished in a fire. I loved that amp. Too me it was like losing a favorite pet. I figured I would never easily find another to replace it, and didn't try.

Before some wise ass comes out to correct me, I'm not even saying that ANY Wizard is based on my old beloved JMP50 MKII, but that's the sound I had in my head. My MC50, is not too far off the mark. No it doesn't sound exactly like it. Hell....no two of anything (even the same make/model of virtually ANYTHING) sounds exactly the same.

Around Christmas 2018 before the markets distorted out of recognition into bizzaro world, I found an MC50 on eBay a scammer was trying to pedal for what ended up being an overly inflated price. Stupid me took the bait and paid $3,200 for it. When I got it, it was not as advertised and had many problems. I won't puke out the whole sickening teen-girl-soap-opera about it all. I was going to return it, and the seller, instead of immediately accepting it back, offered to refund $1,200 if I kept the amp. At the time, and based on what I believed I knew about the amp (wasn't a lot at the time), I kept it after the partial refund.

To make a long story short, I sent it back to Rick in 2020 for upgrades to the current spec's at the time. Those were, effects loop, current spec output transformer, switching improvements (before mods, the damned thing popped like hell in all footswitchable modes). Had Rick shit can the huge, ugly, clunky impedance select sw, and install new silk-screened back and front panels just like those at the time.

Before:

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After:

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Although Rick was reluctant to replace the front and back panels, he finally did. I wasn't concerned about the cost at the time, it just seemed like the right thing for me to have done since I was getting a new OT, effects loop, and the additional LED's for the Rhythm Boost and effects loop. I wanted it to look just like a new amp, without the P-touch labels I see on so many that have been modded. I just hate the cheap looking shit.

The only thing I couldn't talk him into was selling me a new head shell with the vent/grate on top. (ended up finding a mint used one finally).

That amp led to 3 more Wizards, an MC25, MCII KT150, and MTL MKII KT200. I recently got rid of the MC25. Just not enough power for my uses.

I learned a lot through the school of hard knocks buying my first used one. Mostly that a whole shit load of people selling these know very little about what they're selling. It was damned near impossible to even get the serial number from the sellers. It was like they and the amp were under the witness protection program. Each prospective seller didn't even know where the damned serial number was. And/or would argue with me over why in the hell I wanted it to begin with. It became increasingly harder to bite my tongue from telling them, "well dumbass, since you can't tell me anything else except why it is such an awesome amp, and why I should buy it, I want the serial number so the builder can tell me what year it was made, what mods I need for it to bring it up to current spec.

That's why all my Wizards after that (except one MTL MKII 50W which was returned) were new builds. The used ones to me were not worth the hassle. I don't suffer dumasses well. Especially when they are selling used gear at damned near new prices. Unless you at least know a little about what you are buying, can go check it out in person and play thru it, I don't recommend buying them used.

I'm sure there are exceptions like a trusted friend or aquaintance. I'm also sure folks here have those sources. Unfortunately for me at that time I did not.

My number one piece of advice in buying a used Wizard is definitely get some background on the amp, buy from a trusted source and be able to play thru first. I still would not buy used at the moment. Sellers asking way too much. I'll just buy a new build.

Both the amps and the builder are strange ducks. Although I will say Rick has always been straight up with me about anything I've bought from him, and stands 100% behind his work. Every build I've ever got from him arrived early, and the amps were perfect (for me anyway).

Just know Rick is a man of extremely few words, and doesn't appreciate people bugging the shit out him while he's trying to work. Again, fortunately for me, I've found him to be a man of his word. I tell him what I want, he tells me if and when he can do it, I send him money, 5 to 6 weeks later, product arrives. No hassles. For me it doesn't get much better. Rick's a good dude. Just don't fuck with him.

I'm sure there's other amps that will do flavors of Marshall just fine and cost a lot less. And are built just as well.

This leads me to the build quality. I've been a licensed aircraft mechanic/electronics technician, and degreed electrical engineer for many years. Although the thrill of working on this crap left me decades ago, I still like something that I can work on without a god damned microscope and wave soldering skills. I'm from the dinosaur tech era. If I cant fix it with common soldering skills/tools, basic test equipment if I happen to want to work on it, then I don't want it. Not at Wizard prices anyway.

Wizard builds are a sight to behold. Not that I expect anyone else to appreciate them that way like I do. But I've done MIL spec building in aerospace back in the late 70's thru 90's. The Wizards are built as good as any. Not hard to work on. Plenty of room.

Built like a brick shit-house.

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I currently own 5 Wizards, but I still get GAS for other amps. I love checking out new stuff. They're definitely my favorite amps, but they aren't the be all end all. I personally think the KT88 loaded Wizards are the best, and most people probably haven't played one of those. There are few amps I've owned/played that have the same punch, feel and response of a Wizard and have what I like/look for in an amp. Those include Fryettes, Larry (I've only played the one DanTravis62 currently owns), Hermannson and, to a lesser extent, Splawn and some of the Mark series Mesas I've played. I imagine Hiwatt would be in that realm too, but I've never played one.

If money is an issue, I'd say look to Fryette. To me, you get 90% of what a Wizard gets you...Deliverance instead of an MC2 and a UL/CLX instead of an MTL and you'd be pretty happy. While I prefer my MTL KT150 to my UL, I can see where some would prefer the UL more. There's a reason I've had my UL for almost 10 years while a lot of other amps have come and gone.

Wizards threads are definitely the new Cameron threads :ROFLMAO: I like Rick and have a good dealings/communications with him, but I can get that some people need a little bit of coddling in their purchase decisions - especially for a high $ purchase...and that's just not something Rick is gonna do...so they get bent out of shape. I'd rather deal with someone who actually delivers his product on time without all the BS excuses, but is short in his communications, than someone who's your "buddy" but shines you on after they get paid.
 
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Everyone's input has been very helpful. From what I gather Wizards are unique, just like every other amp 😊.

Kidding aside, It seems like Wizards have their own thing going, just like Larrys, Peters, Fryettes, Naylors, etc. They're all special and unique, each in their own way. None of them are better or worse than the other, just different. I've been going through all the different settings of the new to me Gemini the last few weeks. I feel like you have to purposefully dial in shit tone to make it sound bad. I suspect a Wizard would be the same way just with it's own core sound.

It does sound like Wizards can be less forgiving than other amps and will make your imperfections stand out. That's actually something that appeals to me in the sense that it would force me into being more precise and playing better. I'd rather hear my flaws and work toward improvement than try to cover up sloppy playing.

I know I'm on the fence about saving for a Wizard and it's mainly because of price, how I approach tone and will what I get out of the amp warrant the cost.... I'll try to put this in the right words to elaborate. I feel like I have an opposite approach to tone than others do. Most seem to have a specific tone in their head that they're trying to get out. Their search for gear is to find the right combo that gets them that sound. I'm ass backwards as I don't have a set tone in my head that I'm trying to achieve. So if you ask what kind of sound I want, I can't really tell you anything.

When I'm looking at new gear I'm listening for something that will inspire me. It may be something that's raw, open, and full of color. Or it may be the polar opposite being compressed, sterile, and gun metal grey. Regardless of the tone, triggering that spark of inspiration is what firsts grabs my attention. Generally I can get that far with youtube clips. The other parts to the equation are the feel (touch sensitive or stiff) and does it inspire me differently than other amps. Without being able to play it, feel is always a gamble but opinions help balance that risk. Gauging if one will give different inspiration than another is the tricky part for me to navigate. Sound clips don't offer much help here. The sound clip can peak my interest but that doesn't mean I'll get lead in the same direction as I initially thought. And in some cases what I thought would be 2 different paths ended up being the same one; not that this is bad it's just redundancy. Space & money being a premium doesn't really mesh with that.

That's where the Wizard decision is coming in. Hearing clips hit me in the same way that a few other amps did (Naylor in particular). But from the way they can be talked about it sounded like there's a decent possibility it'll sound, feel, and lead me down a new road that other amps won't. But if I get it and it brings me to the same place as say a Naylor then that was time and money that could have been focused elsewhere.

I suck at trying to put thoughts like this into actual words. Hopefully this makes some sort of sense and doesn't sound like I'm talking out my ass.
 
I've only ever played the MCII and thought it was a fantastic amp....the price tag is just too much for me though. I personally don't feel like the price is even remotely justified but again it is a great amp.
 
Both the amps and the builder are strange ducks. Although I will say Rick has always been straight up with me about anything I've bought from him, and stands 100% behind his work. Every build I've ever got from him arrived early, and the amps were perfect (for me anyway).
Wizards threads are definitely the new Cameron threads :ROFLMAO: I like Rick and have a good dealings/communications with him, but I can get that some people need a little bit of coddling in their purchase decisions - especially for a high $ purchase...and that's just not something Rick is gonna do...so they get bent out of shape. I'd rather deal with someone who actually delivers his product on time without all the BS excuses, but is short in his communications, than someone who's your "buddy" but shines you one after they get paid.

I've heard Rick is unique to deal with. Really it sounds like dealing with a typical engineer or programmer. Tell him what you want, he'll tell you what's feasible and what he will do. From there leave him the fuck alone to do his thing & he'll deliver on time as promised.
 
I lusted after a Wizard back in 2014 when I saw Pretty Reckless here at an outdoor festival. Best live tone I’ve ever heard. Started with a MTL50; but it had these ‘hollow’ mids. Only way to put it. Great clarity though and could out muscle some 100w amps. This was a 2012 model and didn’t take boosts well, or any of mine at least. Sold it. In 2016 I picked up an MC100, 2010 model with the C transformers and sounded very Marshally. Killer amp and I would have kept it…but I saw a way to owning a C+ Coliseum, a serious bucket list amp. Sold it to fund the Coli. At that point, one other bucket list amp was a vintage Superlead. Found a nice 72 SuperTrem for 2200 shipped from England, right at the start of Covid…it was the first NMV Marshall I owned WITHOUT an MV mod. When I found the right boost pedals to take it into heavy saturation I was floored. As great as a good 2203 can be, and that Wiz MC I had was NOTHING could touch this 72. THAT is the tone in my head. I’ve had a few NMV Marshalls but with the master mods they couldn’t even come close to this Tremolo.
So, if you ask me what other amp you should look for other than a Wizard, I’d recommend an early 70s metal panel Superlead. It is a force of nature imo.
 
That’s true. Certainly not a high gainer. Hiwatt doesn’t get discussed much here for sure.

Dr103s are beastly though, and have excellent gain when cranked up. Also great pedal platforms for doom and sludge with a fuzz pedal because of that ridiculous headroom.
 
Everyone's input has been very helpful. From what I gather Wizards are unique, just like every other amp 😊.

Kidding aside, It seems like Wizards have their own thing going, just like Larrys, Peters, Fryettes, Naylors, etc. They're all special and unique, each in their own way. None of them are better or worse than the other, just different.

That's the thing though, they are all unique.

But your style of play, and your technique idiosyncrasies are going to be a huge ass factor too, and certain flavors of preamp gain can enhance or downplay your strengths and weaknesses as a player.

I gravitate towards Larrys stuff because of my personal playing style - his amps mesh with it, to the point where it's kind of obvious if you listen to my recordings. All of my standard tuned triplet dentist drill palm muting is enhanced by the tightness and control of the low end.

Racer sounds great playing his super trem - it has an "aliveness" in the mids that reminds of Mike Scalzi's raw organic recorded tones, it's obvious even through a cellphone clip.

Techdeth's leads sound amazing with his diezel, the preciseness and compression of it bring out the fluidity of his shredding.

even as a listener you can hear the synergy between rig and player sometimes, that's why "is a wizard is right for you" depends alot on what you're actually going to do with the wizard.
 
I can't bash Wizard as I've never owned one, but I do have 20+ other great amps and don't have the desire. Tonedog is Steve Snider, he's an excellent guitarists in lots of genres, and as much of a gearhead as you'll find. Not Donnie. He owned a Bogner/2-Rock dealership at 1 point as I'm 2 years younger and live on the opposite coast of him but we were around on all of the gear forums since the beginning of the internet, and prior to that on the newsgroups. I have grown kids now, and unfortunately no grandkids, and 1 troubled 16 year old at home. I still play in 2 rock bands, playing mostly alt-rock and non-radio music, but some dad-rock, and some modern pop (yuck) . . We all have real lives, and we used to be the young guys on the rock gear forums. Just remember that. . lol. . Hopefully someday the young people trashing the old ones get there themselves. Eric, as I duck and run, and deal with my real life issues now. Carry on
Thanks Eric. Hope all is well with you. The only reason I don’t use my name on this forum is because Brad King had me banned for bashing Cameron and him. I’ve been here since the early days. Almost time for my afternoon nap😜
 
MadAsAHatter - thanks for responding to my original questions. Hopefully you know I was not intentionally intending to be a dickhead :D

I felt my list might help others decipher your thought process as the amps being mentioned were kind of running together as far as where they stood in your head or thought process. I need to play a Wizard so I can determine for myself if the price tag is worth it to me and/or potentially others. Based on my skill level and time put into this game I'd say it would NOT be justified for me but that doesn't mean I wouldn't love it and then GAS for one. I own a Splawn and played Maddnotez' VHT Pitbull for awhile (as we traded some amps for fun) so I'm guessing I would really dig a Wizard. :yes:

Never played a Wizard - but from what I hear, they deliver the same ‘flavor’ of big, full, tight tone that you hear with VHT and early Splawn. Not the same sound by any means - just that same thick, tight, aggressive vibe as opposed to a more compressed, greasy lead-friendly tone that I hear in Mesas and Camerons. I used to play Mesa Mark IIIs and loved them. I have since transitioned over to Splawns and I love those. I bet I’d really dig a Wizard if I ever had the chance to plug into one.
This is me :yes:

could be a case of needing a lesson before needing another amp
This is me also :lol:

But if I get it and it brings me to the same place as say a Naylor then that was time and money that could have been focused elsewhere.

I suck at trying to put thoughts like this into actual words. Hopefully this makes some sort of sense and doesn't sound like I'm talking out my ass.

My parting thoughts are that it appears you have the means and funds to do whatever here. So I say buck up and get the Wizard of choice. If in the end it is not the end all be all you know you can flip it with no issue and have the funds again to go get 1 or 2 of the other amps on your hot list and still be very happy.
 
but I can get that some people need a little bit of coddling in their purchase decisions - especially for a high $ purchase...and that's just not something Rick is gonna do...so they get bent out of shape.
Hah!!! You mean like numb-nuts over there on TGP with 2 warehouses chock full of gawd-knows-what high $$$ toys.

That stupid-ass thread probably has 20/50posts per pages by now. That thing is like the herpes.....just when ya think it's gonna die and fall off the vine, some naive goober asks more dumbass questions that have already been answered countless times in other threads.

I'm resigned to the fact that people DO NOT want to have a clue. When the hell are at least some folks going to recognize, no one hears exactly the same.....even day to day? No one wants exactly the same thing, or uses any gear exactly the same way.

But what the hell, if it actually clicked in a major way, these forums would be ghost towns.

Until the next.......
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But at least here isn't so damned "politically correct" as long as one doesn't get too far out in the weeds.
 
Will someone post a song recorded with Wizard amps? What band is a user of Wizards?

This would help those of us who have no idea why the Wizard is the amp to own this week.
First two pantera albums have Wizard MC on every track . I’ve talked with Rick . Dime ran it through green backs .
 
I've heard Rick is unique to deal with. Really it sounds like dealing with a typical engineer or programmer. Tell him what you want, he'll tell you what's feasible and what he will do. From there leave him the fuck alone to do his thing & he'll deliver on time as promised.
I like Rick. I think he might be on the aspergers/autism spectrum just a bit. I say that because I am. I recognize some of the tell-tale traits.

I can't speak for all on the spectrum, but everyone I know....most of us initially don't relate the same to others the way "normal" people do. We're off into our own worlds, can be laser focused, and don't react well to being interrupted during task, or routine. On the moderate to extreme end of the spectrum, we are often looked at as freaks with no social skills. As with virtually all things, there is a nugget or two of truth to that. Fortunately, some of us learn the skills we need and function at a high level. Some don't.....for whatever reason. Some seem not to be able to...ever.

I have a tremendous respect for Rick St Pierre.

Just word of mouth and user enthusiasm has created a niche market for his product.

The fact that the demand for Wizard Amps prevail even now, says in and of itself all that needs to be said.

Doesn't matter what scuttlebutt slobbers out on the internet.

As it should be.

HE doesn't give one damn what people say here, because it doesn't matter.
 
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Hah!!! You mean like numb-nuts over there on TGP with 2 warehouses chock full of gawd-knows-what high $$$ toys.

That stupid-ass thread probably has 20/50posts per pages by now. That thing is like the herpes.....just when ya think it's gonna die and fall off the vine, some naive goober asks more dumbass questions that have already been answered countless times in other threads.

I'm resigned to the fact that people DO NOT want to have a clue. When the hell are at least some folks going to recognize, no one hears exactly the same.....even day to day? No one wants exactly the same thing, or uses any gear exactly the same way.

But what the hell, if it actually clicked in a major way, these forums would be ghost towns.

Until the next.......
yG0xLWv.gif


But at least here isn't so damned "politically correct" as long as one doesn't get too far out in the weeds.
Terry! What's up Brother ? You're one of the good eggs out there, I know you know what you know and what you don't know, ya know ??? :rock:
 
All can add here is that I really like Wizards, they work for me, do exactly what I need them to do on a regular basis. My personal amps(s) is consistent and delivers every time I fire it up. They may not work for everybody, but that's not a problem since there are a bazillion other choices. I'll add that I'm loving the SLO30, its the first amp through here that I would say starts getting close to what my MC25 does, at least to my ears and fingers, for rock n roll stuff.
 
I find wizards scooped and honestly not at all inspiring.

In terms of tightness, my late 90’s Bogner has over 525V on the plates. Channel 2 boosted is one of the most deep, complex, and aggressive gain structures I’ve ever heard. The Mercury magnetics OT stock from the factory that only exists on the mid to late 90’s models add further to its modern voicing.

Wizards are overpriced diode clipped Marshall inspired 4 gain stage builds. I honestly believe even my Laney GH100S can hang tooth and nail stock and I snagged mine 100 times cheaper. Good luck finding one - they were first year models in 1994 and only a handful were made, most were kept by Iommi himself. All were made in the UK.

So many people associate cost with quality. Cost in some instances is used as a price to enter the ring, and less on what actually is being paid for internally for quality and features.
I think you should let me play the laney for awhile. I will send you my address.
 
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