Kramer Pacers, 84s and Barettas......

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I agree the build quality has gotten much better but the parts are still shitty. Crappy bridges and electronics and such.

The few guitars I have bought recently feel and sound pretty nice, especially for the dollar.
Yeah the builds on the lower end Chinese/Indonesian are okay but once your paying 500$ and up the quality is there minus the proprietary pups and hardware or whatever else. With these ones at least I get aftermarket part pups and hardware like a JB and a Floyd.

The EVH Standards are a great value too for all proprietary parts I have to say and I actually like those better than the Specials.

I was pretty surprised with the 200-300$ Pacers too......I mean honestly it was a lot of guitar for the money and it was way better than 200-300$. I mean who the hell would buy a Squire for what they go for now or even an Indo Fender. Would say the build could be better on the lower end Pacers but I mean for 200-300 bucks and some change may as well ask for a pony with a unicorn too ^_^
 
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Ebony fretboard? If so, I think I just came in my pants... love the ebony boards. Wish Charvel would throw those more in the mix on their super stock and other special editions.
No 80s era Kramers had ebony boards except for the Proaxe, Nightswan, and Stagemasters.

For the price they are going for, nvm wear and tear with age and ageing and nvm quality control now and quality now relative to MIA/MIJ of the 80s or 90s and manufacturing in general...... I'm not taking a chance with a "vintage" or whatever tbh and stuff like this just makes a lot more sense to me and in general......
That's fine, more for me lol

It's a sad day when the quality of a guitar is based on how tight a tolerance is on a CNC machine.

PS you can just say what you are talking about or post a link, we know how to use google. No need to post 10 tall screenshots in a message, it's annoying as hell to read this thread because of all the huge images.
Not my thing but my wife would love your Sailor Moon guitar.
 
No 80s era Kramers had ebony boards except for the Proaxe, Nightswan, and Stagemasters.


That's fine, more for me lol

It's a sad day when the quality of a guitar is based on how tight a tolerance is on a CNC machine.

PS you can just say what you are talking about or post a link, we know how to use google. No need to post 10 tall screenshots in a message, it's annoying as hell to read this thread because of all the huge images.
Not my thing but my wife would love your Sailor Moon guitar.
Yeah for me it's just about consistency and not saying mojo doesn't matter but I just want something that is going to offer a degree of certainty, comfort in what quality to expect and the consistency todays manufacturing and QC provides vs back then. Something that won't be hard to replace if needed or to find another but great quality and consistent as said.

The wife has good taste and yeah ironically theme is Waifu but Sailor Moon Waifu. Waifu simply means a fictional female character from an anime/manga one has a crush or romantic feelings for, in this case the Sailor Scouts. It's the pronunciation of the word "wife" in English but in Japanese. Waifu ^_^
 
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The Sailor Scouts are teenagers. Like 12-16 years old.

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Anyone else have an 84 Model with FR...... what should I expect relative to a Pacer current production neck aside from maple body vs Alder on the 84?
 
And I figure the reason these are on a stupid sale is because they are phasing out this older model I'm getting for the newer 84 with Kramer USA pups, bolt through locking nut and matching front and back headstocks...... yeah with today's impeccable upper tier Indonesian build and quality...... they are all satin too....... and FR direct mounted......


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The 84 Barettas and cheap Pacers I've fondled almost all had sharp fret ends. Maybe it's because it's so dry in AZ, but other brands have not felt like that to me.
 
One thing that put me off about Kramers reluctantly was I didn't know much about them tbh...... they were sort of a mystery to me.....

I never played one before really other than the cheap Chinese Pacers 200-300$ that are amazing for the money or the Limited Edition Pacer Indo Pacers with Duncans and the standard Pacers with Duncans which were in fact amazing.....


I dug them but not knowing much and being a bit of a cork sniffer I was like "well how does this compare to a vintage profile wise"........"hhhmmm Gibson owns them, that's weird......"....... "what's up with the smaller neck plate, is this normal or like Gibson/Kramer being cheap."...... "no compound radius......lame....."..... I kind of did this on purpose though because I didn't want the Kramers to share the same stage with my Charvels being a snob pretty much..... but they sort of were calling to join the stage from the get go after playing them in the back of my mind always......

And well reading up on them more while the neck profiles save for the Snake Sabo Sig aren't exactly like vintage ones they do a pretty decent job of getting that feel more or less on average of a typical Kramer neck from the 80s as there seems to have been inconsistencies in that regards through those years. The Snake Sabos though I hear are straight up like the vintage ones profile wise when it comes to the Kramer Slim Taper profile but otherwise one gets a decent replica of a typical Kramer profile on a current production Pacer or 84 for example.

And then seeing the Gibson dude and his passion over these and the good job he did with the current production Epis and attention to detail there and his hand on these Kramers it kind of really convinced me that there is something here aside from actually playing great. And how close they are to a vintage Kramer neck profile shouldn't matter or if they are because yeah these current production necks are just great IMO. Looking at vintage ones too they seem to have the same size neck plate and that size is normal for Kramers which I didn't really know before.

I also didn't know what the deal was when I played a cheap Chinese Pacer with proprietary pups and FR Special vs a nicer Indo limited edition one that looked pretty much the same with Duncans and FR1000 and better build....... I was like what's the deal.... want to get one but as good as the Chinese ones are the Indo builds felt better and didn't know what the deal was as they looked the same pretty much other than hardware, pups and overall build.


Now understanding the range more and seeing that your not only getting pups and better hardware on the more expensive Chinese and Indo ones they make but your getting a better build and features too I'm pretty much sold and can't wait for this new one. It honestly was just hard to pull the trigger because Kramer just seemed like a mystery to me. Growing up I'd always see them at pawn shops and thought they were cheap compared to a Fender or something like a Jackson or Shecter for example but now I realize these things got their vibe and mojo and I should have picked one up sooner.


Another thing was that yeah while a lot of the originals were MIJ, they were still imports and hell while there were MIA I imagine a bulk were imports and in either regard todays manufacturing and QC is lightyears ahead of anything from the 80s or 90s MIJ/MIA IMO. Even MIA Kramers back then used imported necks....... So an import Chinese/Indo Kramer now kind of falls in line with the tradition of these mainly being imports. It's hard to explain what that vibe is but it's very much Kramer whatever it is and Gibson is doing a pretty damn good job here offering some very appreciated tones, mojo, feel and distinct sounds I really haven't experienced from other guitars.


Maybe it's the neck profile or direct mounted Floyds, the wiring or the build or the banana or beak headstock..... whatever the hel it is it's definitely unique and unmistakably a Kramer thing and a Kramer vibe I just haven't gotten from other guitars.


I'm not kicking my Charvels to the curb either but I also like these Kramers and yeah can't wait for my first one to come in and enjoy as much as I enjoy my Charvels but in a different way ^_^
 
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One thing that put me off about Kramers reluctantly was I didn't know much about them tbh...... they were sort of a mystery to me.....

I never played one before really other than the cheap Chinese Pacers 200-300$ that are amazing for the money or the Limited Edition Pacer Indo Pacers with Duncans and the standard Pacers with Duncans which were in fact amazing.....


I dug them but not knowing much and being a bit of a cork sniffer I was like "well how does this compare to a vintage profile wise"........"hhhmmm Gibson owns them, that's weird......"....... "what's up with the smaller neck plate, is this normal or like Gibson/Kramer being cheap."...... "no compound radius......lame....."..... I kind of did this on purpose though because I didn't want the Kramers to share the same stage with my Charvels being a snob pretty much..... but they sort of were calling to join the stage from the get go after playing them in the back of my mind always......

And well reading up on them more while the neck profiles save for the Snake Sabo Sig aren't exactly like vintage ones they do a pretty decent job of getting that feel more or less on average of a typical Kramer neck from the 80s as there seems to have been inconsistencies in that regards through those years. The Snake Sabos though I hear are straight up like the vintage ones profile wise when it comes to the Kramer Slim Taper profile but otherwise one gets a decent replica of a typical Kramer profile on a current production Pacer or 84 for example.

And then seeing the Gibson dude and his passion over these and the good job he did with the current production Epis and attention to detail there and his hand on these Kramers it kind of really convinced me that there is something here aside from actually playing great. And how close they are to a vintage Kramer neck profile shouldn't matter or if they are because yeah these current production necks are just great IMO. Looking at vintage ones too they seem to have the same size neck plate and that size is normal for Kramers which I didn't really know before.

I also didn't know what the deal was when I played a cheap Chinese Pacer with proprietary pups and FR Special vs a nicer Indo limited edition one that looked pretty much the same with Duncans and FR1000 and better build....... I was like what's the deal.... want to get one but as good as the Chinese ones are the Indo builds felt better and didn't know what the deal was as they looked the same pretty much other than hardware, pups and overall build.


Now understanding the range more and seeing that your not only getting pups and better hardware on the more expensive Chinese and Indo ones they make but your getting a better build and features too I'm pretty much sold and can't wait for this new one. It honestly was just hard to pull the trigger because Kramer just seemed like a mystery to me. Growing up I'd always see them at pawn shops and thought they were cheap compared to a Fender or something like a Jackson or Shecter for example but now I realize these things got their vibe and mojo and I should have picked one up sooner.


Another thing was that yeah while a lot of the originals were MIJ, they were still imports and hell while there were MIA I imagine a bulk were imports and in either regard todays manufacturing and QC is lightyears ahead of anything from the 80s or 90s MIJ/MIA IMO. So an import Chinese/Indo Kramer now kind of falls in line with the tradition of these mainly being imports. It's hard to explain what that vibe is but it's very much Kramer whatever it is and Gibson is doing a pretty damn good job here offering some very appreciated tones, mojo, feel and distinct sounds I really haven't experienced from other guitars.

I'm not kicking my Charvels to the curb either but I also like these Kramers and yeah can't wait for my first one to come in and enjoy as much as I enjoy my Charvels but in a different way ^_^

What experience do you have with any of these guitars you talk about? Who are you talking to? Is this your diary? You came to a forum that may very well have the highest experience/expert to member ratio of any gear forum and you kinda come off like a guitar center employee whose uncle's neighbor's brother in law was once in the same room as a guitar. Like what are you trying to sell and to who?
 
What experience do you have with any of these guitars you talk about? Who are you talking to? Is this your diary? You came to a forum that may very well have the highest experience/expert to member ratio of any gear forum and you kinda come off like a guitar center employee whose uncle's neighbor's brother in law was once in the same room as a guitar. Like what are you trying to sell and to who?
Honestly have no experience with Kramers never really played many before...... as I said since you just read it like a minute ago no? Sorry I come off that way but I've been playing for more than half my life now.......

Just played them a couple times in stores on seperate occasions and was pretty impressed, thought they sounded great, saw a good price for one on sale and got one for a good deal after reading up on the range more and them in general. Few times I did play them they did impress but as said a part of me was kind of a snob because I like my Charvels so much and they seemed like a mystery too never really playing any before.


Yeah I mean as said, not sure if it's the body or the profile or the direct mounted Floyd or the headstock but yeah they sound pretty distinct and killer IMO and have their vibe/mojo and well very "Kramer" for lack of a better term and not better but different than what your not really getting with a Jackson/Charvel/EVH or Shecter etc etc IMO.....

Just something about em and a vibe even with the cheapie 200-300 Pacers :dunno:
 
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@NowYou'rePlayingWithPower They just seem pretty good...... maybe under the radar a bit..... no one really talks about em and well they are pretty killer in general.....


Kind of got this one for myself as a late BDay present to myself too since it wasn't too long ago
 
So this is what's up from the necks I can gather. The Thin and K Speed Slim Taper C are very much Kramer but they aren't really based on a specific year and more of an amalgamation and replica or average/mean of what what typical Kramer necks offered in the 80s in the general.

Snake Sabo is actually based on his Kramer from the 80s and a specific one and the Pacers use a profile based on an 83 Pacer or the original 83 Pacers. So kind of no wonder I loved those Pacers with the Duncans....... they are using a straight up 83 profile for the current production top end Pacers. The lower end Pacers use a standard K Speed C Slim Taper which aren't bad but something to keep in mind and these come on The 84 too.

Ima see how this 84 works out and yeah may probably get a Pacer down the road too based on that 83 Profile alone. Anyone interested in a "vintage" feel and more correct profile I suggest checking out a current production Pacer with Duncans or the Snake Sabo Baretta. Regular Barettas use thin profile while the Snake Sabo has a more vintage profiled neck like the top end Pacers.

It's not an 83 profile like on a Pacer but Ima see what's up with the K Speed Slim Taper C on the 84 and if it's anything like the 83 profile Ima be pretty happy.
 
kramers with alder bodies is a no-no for me...

Maple or poplar...

They always had a distinct sound due to wood materials...
They used different woods actually in general including Alder. But yeah the Pacers come with Maple bodies and some current production Baretta models too. And yeah the top end Pacers they make now sport that 83 Kramer Slim Taper profile as well as the. Maple body.

Before this I was very kind of meh about the difference between Ash and Aldee or Basswood tbh..... but yeah for dudes that don't think tone wood does anything.... try out a Baretta with a Maple body or a Pacer with one. Totally does something even though they are pretty heavy in general it's pretty dope and totally has its vibe and place.
 
Also probably am going to make it a Sailor Moon Waifu Kramer. Got in contact with the people that make the stickers and they said if I ordered 4-6 I could get a discount and they could also make them a bit smaller or bigger if needed.

Cool work and they make these for cars but they can be used for guitars too. If your looking at a Waifu sticker or a Custom Waifu sticker check them out. Some classic Waifus and other custom work too.


https://www.instagram.com/vertexdecals/

https://vertexdecals.com/?srsltid=AfmBOora9qBAiN3H-SZHdNETU0r7bZ-QpOG41c44B1HIgYXbC8TZMKWr



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This thing came in...... The 84 Original..... and I'm not doing a full NGD thread/review now or showing pics or doing anything else until I Sailor Moon Waifu it up........



But guys....... I got this thing for a deal..... coming from Charvel....... being a Charvel guy...... these Kramers are sick!!!!!!


Nvm the deal these things are totally worth the full price....... and you can pay the full price and I would if I played one for the first time and that's what I would have to pay...... and it's totally worth 1000 bucks +........ it's really amazing......


If you can get one now for 600$ and if you can't now...... get one for 900-1000 dollars more if you can in the future........ because these things are fucking sick...... and totally worth the hype.


Get one for a stupid deal now or pay more for the same thing later and well still totally worth it IMO ^_^


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Posted in my Baseball Thread but wanted to share here too ^_^



Also can't make this up as I'm working on a Sailor Moon Waifu Kramer..... my fave players actual wife........ :dunno: :LOL:


 
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