Marshall 2061cx cab?

[dcburn]

Might be good in that cab. For whatever reason the Gold’s are so underrated. They’re literally the only non-vintage speakers that I’d still have a place for. I love the heritage 20’s too, but don’t use them much since I’ve got some of the pre-rola versions

I put a new 10" gold in the Princeton I built.
Sounds absolutely great at volume in the barn, but quiet in the house is another story.
I don't like it. At all.
Bought a Swart Nitelight for it and it didn't make it better. So its get no home use, just cart it out to the barn once in a while.

 

[braintheory]

I put a new 10" gold in the Princeton I built.
Sounds absolutely great at volume in the barn, but quiet in the house is another story.
I don't like it. At all.
Bought a Swart Nitelight for it and it didn't make it better. So its get no home use, just cart it out to the barn once in a while.

Interesting. I’ve not explored that many 10” speakers yet. I also only really tried my 12” Gold’s at loud/pushed volumes, so can’t even say how they sound when quiet haha. Maybe I wouldn’t like them either. I will say I don’t like Gold’s much for clean or lower gain stuff, but when overdriven to classic rock levels or beyond into high gain I think they’re great. Of course like any speaker, there are some amps I don’t like them with

 

[Rex Rocker]

I hate the Annis and came to dislike the Creamback H-75's when I had them, TBH.

They're super bright. The Annis even more so. And the CB 75's barely have any low-end at all.

The Annis are pretty much unusable for high-gain, IMO.

Also depends on the year or country of manufacture, I guess. My CB's were super thin-sounding, but I've read people actually find them fatter than V30's. They weren't for me at all, IME.

 

[dcburn]

Interesting. I’ve not explored that many 10” speakers yet. I also only really tried my 12” Gold’s at loud/pushed volumes, so can’t even say how they sound when quiet haha. Maybe I wouldn’t like them either. I will say I don’t like Gold’s much for clean or lower gain stuff, but when overdriven to classic rock levels or beyond into high gain I think they’re great. Of course like any speaker, there are some amps I don’t like them with

In the barn at dancing volume with my Jr, tone that dreams are built on! lol

 

[braintheory]

In the barn at dancing volume with my Jr, tone that dreams are built on! lol

Ah yeah I’ve got a ‘57 LP Jr myself and it’s one of my best guitars. I only like to play at volumes where dreams are built on haha. Otherwise I just play my classical guitars when I can’t go too loud lol

 

[braintheory]

I hate the Annis and came to dislike the Creamback H-75's when I had them, TBH.

They're super bright. The Annis even more so. And the CB 75's barely have any low-end at all.

The Annis are pretty much unusable for high-gain, IMO.

Also depends on the year or country of manufacture, I guess. My CB's were super thin-sounding, but I've read people actually find them fatter than V30's. They weren't for me at all, IME.

I don’t like those 2 speakers either. Maybe it’s the hollowness in the mids that’s turning you off like they do for me. I can see that also making them seem less fat. I could “use” them for high gain if I had to, but I just wouldn’t want to lol

 

[dcburn]

Ah yeah I’ve got a ‘57 LP Jr myself and it’s one of my best guitars. I only like to play at volumes where dream are built on haha. Otherwise I just play my classical guitars when I can’t go too loud lol

Honestly, that makes every bit of sense to me, lol

 

[braintheory]

Sam knows where he wants his mids. To me, my w800 with the h30s gives me that boosted jcm sound. But there is a different kerrang there than with a marshall. It is a bit harsh and very angry. It is not refined or smooth like some modded marshalls. But the wizards have a low mid spike that isnt dominant in my version, but can still be detected. No one would call my amp dark, but before the h30s i would look at presence and treble a little more.
I have played a jose style modded marshall through my cab and all i hear is darkness. So you have to have some highs there for the speaker to register.

If you have a bright amp, the h30 will.magnify that in a good way, imo. If you have a super bright amp, need to lean toward a darker speaker. Maybe a redback to tame that shit.

At the end of the day, i dont think celestion.makes a bad speaker that i have heard, you just need to match it with the amp correctly, and you need to find the right eq for your tastes. That said, the k100 style speaker can definitely give some fatigue with the very hollow mids. Even mixed with a v30 or greenie

Idk to me my favorite modded and stock Marshall’s are the polar opposite of refined and smooth (that is not what I go for at all). If anything, I find my Wizards’s I’ve had/still have to sound smoother largely because of the midrange being smoother, hollow, less personality/tone going in that region, but I love the frosty quality in the highs of the wizards (Marshall’s don’t have that). I won’t mention names, but I hate the modded Marshall’s that sound more smooth and I think it’s incorrect to call it refined because I only use the term refined in a positive way meaning the tone has more detail and complexity and if anything those amp that get called “refined” (incorrectly imo) have less of that and more homogenous sounding and less responsive to nuances in playing

In regards to what you’re saying with h30’s magnifying an amp in a good way, multiply that by 2 or 3 with a JBL D120F or even also the E120 or K120 models. It’s kinda like eating a lemon or something very sour that still has lots of complex, rich flavor behind it. That often times is a tone I enjoy a lot, but but not for wimpy ears that find some amps to be too bright lol. I like the brightness if it’s backed with complex tone. The good vintage Tele’s are kinda like that too. Very bright and piercing, but still very musical and amazing sounding

 

[dcburn]

refined and smooth

Thats Friedman!
No character.

 

[braintheory]

Thats Friedman!
No character.

LOL. Many other recent made amps have that too. It’s a plague of most non-vintage gear IME

 

[Rex Rocker]

I don’t like those 2 speakers either. Maybe it’s the hollowness in the mids that’s turning you off like they do for me. I can see that also making them seem less fat. I could “use” them for high gain if I had to, but I just wouldn’t want to lol

I tried mic'ing them up and runing spectrum analizers on them. It wasn't just my perception. They undoubtedly had less low-end than any other speaker I've had in that one cab. Chinese V30's, EVH's, Greenbacks, and T-75's.

They were the most efficient, though. Even compared to V30's which have the same published efficiency, supposedly.

 

[Smash]

Idk to me my favorite modded and stock Marshall’s are the polar opposite of refined and smooth (that is not what I go for at all). If anything, I find my Wizards’s I’ve had/still have to sound smoother largely because of the midrange being smoother, hollow, less personality/tone going in that region, but I love the frosty quality in the highs of the wizards (Marshall’s don’t have that). I won’t mention names, but I hate the modded Marshall’s that sound more smooth and I think it’s incorrect to call it refined because I only use the term refined in a positive way meaning the tone has more detail and complexity and if anything those amp that get called “refined” (incorrectly imo) have less of that and more homogenous sounding and less responsive to nuances in playing

In regards to what you’re saying with h30’s magnifying an amp in a good way, multiply that by 2 or 3 with a JBL D120F or even also the E120 or K120 models. It’s kinda like eating a lemon or something very sour that still has lots of complex, rich flavor behind it. That often times is a tone I enjoy a lot, but but not for wimpy ears that find some amps to be too bright lol. I like the brightness if it’s backed with complex tone. The good vintage Tele’s are kinda like that too. Very bright and piercing, but still very musical and amazing sounding

Yeah. I definitely know you are on the Raw and non smooth side. You were trying to pull me away from smooth back when i thought a twin jet was the best amp ever, lol. I don't find normal marshalls smooth. The only wizard i would really classify as smooth would be the mcII. It kinda reminded me of that fortin hiwatt as in it would just take your playing and lend itself to your tone. No personality of it's own, I suppose.

I also remember you don't care for dark amps. I used to be obssessed with them, but the more you play, the more you seem to want that bright cutting dagger of a tone. But some jose mods and other modded marshalls can be very smooth and easy to play. There is nothing wrong with it, i suppose. But that darkness is a deal breaker for me.

 

[Smash]

Might be good in that cab. For whatever reason the Gold’s are so underrated. They’re literally the only non-vintage speakers that I’d still have a place for. I love the heritage 20’s too, but don’t use them much since I’ve got some of the pre-rola versions

I know that it is all so hard to get to the bottom of what speakers are really like, since different people use them differently. But I read that Golds get mushy and kind of fall apart at high volumes. It doesn't really make sense. But you are the only one I know that has experience with them. I don't push my power section in the amp ever enough to get mushy, so I damn sure don't want the speakers doing it either.

I have been thinking of running greenbacks in my second cab just because I really liked the EVH Celestions a lot and thought that having h and m greenbacks would be a cool mix. Your 20 watts sound cool, but I would prefer the 25 watt just for the fact that as loud as i run my amp boosted, I would hate to destroy a vintage speaker like that.

I will never mix speakers in a cab again. But what would you recommend for the second cab, if you can get past your hate for the annies?

 

[Smash]

I tried mic'ing them up and runing spectrum analizers on them. It wasn't just my perception. They undoubtedly had less low-end than any other speaker I've had in that one cab. Chinese V30's, EVH's, Greenbacks, and T-75's.

They were the most efficient, though. Even compared to V30's which have the same published efficiency, supposedly.

I know you had a bad experience with the H30s, but I wonder did you ever make it to the break in period, because they are a bit fucking tough to deal with before they break in. That is where they are very bright. But i have a good amount of low end in mine. My palm mutes can knock my kids down if I have the cabinet aimed right.

 

[braintheory]

Yeah. I definitely know you are on the Raw and non smooth side. You were trying to pull me away from smooth back when i thought a twin jet was the best amp ever, lol. I don't find normal marshalls smooth. The only wizard i would really classify as smooth would be the mcII. It kinda reminded me of that fortin hiwatt as in it would just take your playing and lend itself to your tone. No personality of it's own, I suppose.

I also remember you don't care for dark amps. I used to be obssessed with them, but the more you play, the more you seem to want that bright cutting dagger of a tone. But some jose mods and other modded marshalls can be very smooth and easy to play. There is nothing wrong with it, i suppose. But that darkness is a deal breaker for me.

Yeah sound is a complex thing. I wouldn’t consider my MTL overall a smooth amp (I did keep it for 6 years now lol), but smooth in the mids and that’s often where my ears tend to hone in. Others maybe don’t as much, I’m not sure

There are keeper amps (and other gear in general) I’ve got that can be dark, smooth or both because they also have certain tonal qualities that I feel are exceptional despite that. The ‘60’s Alnico Blues are very smooth & silky (so is my silver Klon to an extent), but also the most 3D, tonally complex speakers I’ve tried so far, so hell yeah I use them lol and they still can be mean in their own way. My Uber Original & Rev C are both dark amps that are still among my absolutely favorites for high gain, etc. Those early Recto’s though still are raw and have teeth to them even though they’re dark. The Gjika 10N is another dark but awesome sounding amp, also the Alessandro Redbone’s, Schroeder Dozer, etc. Basically, for me if tone quality itself is amazing I’ll want it lol, but still often gravitate to sounds that lean bright, raw and aggressive and most gear made today is lacking there to me. I like most flavors of tone if the quality of them is there. I can’t ever honestly say I don’t like something because it’s not my cup of tea, I just simply think it sucks for it is if I don’t like it

 

[braintheory]

I know that it is all so hard to get to the bottom of what speakers are really like, since different people use them differently. But I read that Golds get mushy and kind of fall apart at high volumes. It doesn't really make sense. But you are the only one I know that has experience with them. I don't push my power section in the amp ever enough to get mushy, so I damn sure don't want the speakers doing it either.

I have been thinking of running greenbacks in my second cab just because I really liked the EVH Celestions a lot and thought that having h and m greenbacks would be a cool mix. Your 20 watts sound cool, but I would prefer the 25 watt just for the fact that as loud as i run my amp boosted, I would hate to destroy a vintage speaker like that.

I will never mix speakers in a cab again. But what would you recommend for the second cab, if you can get past your hate for the annies?

I never found my Gold’s to be mushy and if you don’t push the power sections too hard then I don’t think it’s something to worry about really plus they’re rated at 50w. They are pretty tight IME, but I admit some amps (like any other speaker) don’t mix well with them. I find them to be not actually too far behind in tightness than regular Chinese V30’s and maybe even feel faster in response, but would have to revisit that to say for sure. For a non-vintage speaker I find them to be quite raw and gritty, which is why I like them so much. Some with wimpy ears complain that they can be too harsh or grainy, so take it for what it’s worth. I used a cross of Gold’s & ‘80’s vented T75’s in my Kerry Wright 412 for parts of my friend’s reamp and we both really liked the results, but admittedly I only did that because I didn’t have better speakers at the time like I do now lol

I heard some say that the 20w GB are actually still 25w’s in handling, but I wouldn’t know that myself. I’ve pushed actually some of my real pre-rola 20w GB’s pretty hard and so far no problems. but am gonna hold off for now lol

It’s too hard for me recommend what speakers without knowing the inherent voicing of the cabs you’ve got. I think it’s just gotta be figured out through trial & error. It’s just IME too hard to predict this stuff. I’ve had results I’ve liked equally well whether it be all 4 speakers the same model, a cross of 2, one type on top/another on bottom, you just never know and gotta try lots of combos. Some might surprise you a lot (they did for me) and it could a great or a bad surprise LOL. The same for me with when I try pickups and tubes. Trial & error to figure it out and optimize. Even after trying all this stuff I have trouble predicting the results till I hear it

 

[Smash]

I never found my Gold’s to be mushy and if you don’t push the power sections too hard then I don’t think it’s something to worry about really plus they’re rated at 50w. They are pretty tight IME, but I admit some amps (like any other speaker) don’t mix well with them. I find them to be not actually too far behind in tightness than regular Chinese V30’s and maybe even feel faster in response, but would have to revisit that to say for sure. For a non-vintage speaker I find them to be quite raw and gritty, which is why I like them so much. Some with wimpy ears complain that they can be too harsh or grainy, so take it for what it’s worth. I used a cross of Gold’s & ‘80’s vented T75’s in my Kerry Wright 412 for parts of my friend’s reamp and we both really liked the results, but admittedly I only did that because I didn’t have better speakers at the time like I do now lol

I heard some say that the 20w GB are actually still 25w’s in handling, but I wouldn’t know that myself. I’ve pushed actually some of my real pre-rola 20w GB’s pretty hard and so far no problems. but am gonna hold off for now lol

It’s too hard for me recommend what speakers without knowing the inherent voicing of the cabs you’ve got. I think it’s just gotta be figured out through trial & error. It’s just IME too hard to predict this stuff. I’ve had results I’ve liked equally well whether it be all 4 speakers the same model, a cross of 2, one type on top/another on bottom, you just never know and gotta try lots of combos. Some might surprise you a lot (they did for me) and it could a great or a bad surprise LOL. The same for me with when I try pickups and tubes. Trial & error to figure it out and optimize. Even after trying all this stuff I have trouble predicting the results till I hear it

Harsh and grainy may not be the most ringing endorsement, lmao. Also love wimpy ears. Idk. I want to round out the tone a bit with the annies having a lot of aggression, but I don't want them to be overwhelmed or too much of the highs taken away by addition of a darker speaker, so it is tough to decide. I hear that they blend well with greenbacks. I also think about 65 creambacks. Idk. I will figure it out.

 

[braintheory]

Harsh and grainy may not be the most ringing endorsement, lmao. Also love wimpy ears. Idk. I want to round out the tone a bit with the annies having a lot of aggression, but I don't want them to be overwhelmed or too much of the highs taken away by addition of a darker speaker, so it is tough to decide. I hear that they blend well with greenbacks. I also think about 65 creambacks. Idk. I will figure it out.

They do blend pretty well with GB’s IME trying them with various different GB’s. I don’t find them harsh or grainy myself, but I can see why some do. They are growly and rich in the mids and low mids, so maybe that can complement H30’s, but never know till actually trying it. The Gold’s may actually not have as much highs as these other models, but I don’t have any way to measure that myself. They seem to me to be more midrangey than anything else, but they are raw and aggressive. 65 CB’s are just ok imo, but I don’t really like most recent made speakers, so that’s just me

 

[Smash]

They do blend pretty well with GB’s IME trying them with various different GB’s. I don’t find them harsh or grainy myself, but I can see why some do. They are growly and rich in the mids and low mids, so maybe that can complement H30’s, but never know till actually trying it. The Gold’s may actually not have as much highs as these other models, but I don’t have any way to measure that myself. They seem to me to be more midrangey than anything else, but they are raw and aggressive. 65 CB’s are just ok imo, but I don’t really like most recent made speakers, so that’s just me

growly and rich is a lot better. I wish i could hear them. You have a recording of the golds?

 

[braintheory]

growly and rich is a lot better. I wish i could hear them. You have a recording of the golds?

I don’t. Mostly because I still don’t use them as often vs my favorite vintage speakers. I wouldn’t really have the recording skills/knowledge to do a great job anyway lol