Marshall Super Lead with Mods - Too Bright

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Question for anyone who might know.

Example: Wirewound resistor, 50 ohms, 1/4 watt. Bought in bulk.

If +/- 20% would cost $1 each (for example)
How much more would +/-10% and then +/- 5% be?

I doubt there was much incentive back in the early Marshall days to spend any
extra for tighter tolerances when people weren't listening to the amps with golden ears back then?
 
SpiderWars said:
I remember getting a 1M volume pot back from Monomyth in the bag of pulled parts that measured ~670k.
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Holy Shit!
670 for a 1000 is pretty far out of spec, even at a 20% tolerance!
 
glpg80 said:
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The top is a V30, the bottom is a greenback.

They aren’t close at all. From 400Hz to 1KHz the V30 has twice as many low mids/mids. Remember each 3dB is twice the sound pressure difference at 1 meter and 1W of output.

Conversely, the greenback has a massive suck out at 1500Hz that the V30 does not have which is another high mid difference between the two.

It‘s one of the known characteristics that distinguish the V30 from others, especially a greenback.
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Yes, there are differences and probably using the word 'same' would be the wrong word because they aren't identical. As usual, the frequency response curve is only half the picture though. The point is that the Greenback will retain much of the tone they are looking for from the V30 while taming out the high-end. Let me ask you this. What other speaker would you recommend? I say Greenbacks. Celestion also does the G12 EVH.

IMO, the curves as close when you compare them on the scale of possible speakers use for these tones.
 
TheToneDig said:
Yes, there are differences and probably using the word 'same' would be the wrong word because they aren't identical. As usual, the frequency response curve is only half the picture though. The point is that the Greenback will retain much of the tone they are looking for from the V30 while taming out the high-end. Let me ask you this. What other speaker would you recommend? I say Greenbacks. Celestion also does the G12 EVH.

IMO, the curves as close when you compare them on the scale of possible speakers use for these tones.
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I wouldn’t recommend a speaker at all. That’s a massive change to a persons tone if all they want to solve is brightness, arguably one of the most common traits of a Marshall.

I told him what cap values and where to place them to solve the problem that won’t choke the amp. Why? Because he asked me personally. It doesn’t take much, and with a bit of forum searching, you’ll find the hints of what to change already documented on the forum by a few of us amp tweakers.

If anything a 10 band EQ to suck out some high end would be the least obtrusive solution of them all.
 
braintheory said:
I can ask my tech about that, I’m not a tech savvy guy at all, but it seems all the ‘67 or earlier Marshall’s I’ve tried so far sound like mine or at least in the same ballpark in being darker. It sounds great and not necessarily looking to change it, it’s one of my best amps, but more thought I may as well find a later Marshall to give me that brighter, more aggressive sound. My ‘67 I’d describe more as being rich, warm, pretty, very pleasant, but still lotta balls and cut and has certainly those distinctive Marshall mids
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Yeah I wouldn’t change anything. Thats what is so cool about the old amps, none sound identical. I went thru more than 25 and settled on three…a 68 Supertrem and two 69 Suplerleads ( one plexi and one metalface). All are different but cool. Ive never owned anything earlier than the 68.
 
Also, the expected outcome of adjusting an outboard EQ, or the value of a cap, is immensely (understatement) more predictable
than taking a 100 foot dive into the transducer rabbit hole!
 
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Greazygeo said:
Yeah I wouldn’t change anything. Thats what is so cool about the old amps, none sound identical. I went thru more than 25 and settled on three…a 68 Supertrem and two 69 Suplerleads ( one plexi and one metalface). All are different but cool. Ive never owned anything earlier than the 68.
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This, exactly. I finally tried an og 72 SuperTrem, all stock and I’ve kicked myself for not trying one 14 years ago. Every JMP 4 holer I’ve tried previously had some type of MV added…they were ok but I’d take a stock JMP/JCM 2203 over them.
If I only knew how good these stock NMV JMPs were, I’d have saved a TON of cash.
 
thegame said:
I bet the ToneDig was born with a coiled umbilical cord. It would explain a lot.
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I just laughed coffee out of my nose, thanks @thegame

Jesus man. This thread.

"JUST USE A COILED CABLE"

"GBS AND V30S ARE BASICALLY THE SAME"

Its like a vending machine where no matter what you put in, you get vague retardation in the form of pseudo-intellectual guitar rig advice in return.
 
Greazygeo said:
Yeah I wouldn’t change anything. Thats what is so cool about the old amps, none sound identical. I went thru more than 25 and settled on three…a 68 Supertrem and two 69 Suplerleads ( one plexi and one metalface). All are different but cool. Ive never owned anything earlier than the 68.
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There’s definitely variation, I would say though all the ‘65-‘67 Marshall’s I’ve tried were similarly dark. I’m weirdly not as experienced actually in trying Marshall’s from ‘68-‘76, but I do remember the few that I have and of course the ones after being brighter and more aggressive than my experience with the ‘67’s and earlier. I tried last summer in LA another ‘67 Tremolo 50 like mine and seemed to have the same kind of sound, but I bet if I could’ve AB’ed I would’ve heard some differences. There was also a JTM 45/100 next to it that I wish was more affordable haha. That one sounded huge
 
glpg80 said:
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View attachment 99950
The top is a V30, the bottom is a greenback.

They aren’t close at all. From 400Hz to 1KHz the V30 has twice as many low mids/mids. Remember each 3dB is twice the sound pressure difference at 1 meter and 1W of output.

Conversely, the greenback has a massive suck out at 1500Hz that the V30 does not have which is another high mid difference between the two.

It‘s one of the known characteristics that distinguish the V30 from others, especially a greenback.
Click to expand...
The V30 and Greenbacks sound very different. It’s not just the eq chart differences and imo the eq curve doesn’t necessarily mean much for the speaker’s actual personality. The feel, the texture of the notes, where they growl and don’t growl, and other characteristics are just not that similar to each other. Also, GB’s, at least the ones I prefer use M magnets vs H Magnets in the V30’s, which also gives 2 different flavors (mostly in the mids, where H sounds more scooped, hollow and M more present mids, less high and lows). And 25-30 watts vs 60 or 70 on the V30
 
DanTravis62 said:
I just laughed coffee out of my nose, thanks @thegame

Jesus man. This thread.

"JUST USE A COILED CABLE"

"GBS AND V30S ARE BASICALLY THE SAME"

Its like a vending machine where no matter what you put in, you get vague retardation in the form of pseudo-intellectual guitar rig advice in return.
Click to expand...

If you find this thread big drama, then that makes me chuckle. I had this discussion recently with some knowledgeable Marshall amp techs and they didn't turn it into drama like you are trying. They explained to me how coiled cables and length degrade tone, especially at the high end, and I put up the videos and charts to make the point. It's measurable by anyone who cares to try it. End of.

I didn't say 'just' use a coiled cable. I introduced it as an option to try before clipping.

Especially I said it is not mutually exclusive to anything else. You can do all of the recommendations if you want. If you want to recommend something do, but why do you need to bash coiled cables which measurably loose high-end is beyond me. You are inadvertently bashing some dead legends there.

Interchanging V30 with Greenbacks is pretty much a standard changeout where V30s are too punchy.

Changing speakers before clipping is something some can do.

Not sure where you find the drama in all that. Maybe you do though. Not me, lol.
 
TheToneDig said:
If you find this thread big drama, then that makes me chuckle. I had this discussion recently with some knowledgeable Marshall amp techs and they didn't turn it into drama like you are trying. They explained to me how coiled cables and length degrade tone, especially at the high end, and I put up the videos and charts to make the point. It's measurable by anyone who cares to try it. End of.

I didn't say 'just' use a coiled cable. I introduced it as an option to try before clipping.

Especially I said it is not mutually exclusive to anything else. You can do all of the recommendations if you want. If you want to recommend something do, but why do you need to bash coiled cables which measurably loose high-end is beyond me. You are inadvertently bashing some dead legends there.

Interchanging V30 with Greenbacks is pretty much a standard changeout where V30s are too punchy.

Changing speakers before clipping is something some can do.

Not sure where you find the drama in all that. Maybe you do though. Not me, lol.
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I dont find it dramatic at all; just fucking hilarious. And I didn't need a re-litigation of your hilarious advice.

Keep on exemplifying the Dunning-Kruger effect for future generations, best selling author.
 
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