MESA/Boogie® Mark IIC+ full demo & overview ft. Doug West & Tommy Waugh

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endofall said:
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Ok now we're getting somewhere. However that's still in "louder than balls" territory.

How about this. Set the Volume 1, Lead Drive, and Treble controls fully cranked to 10, Now, adjusting both the Master 1 and Lead Master controls for maximum volume without squeal, how loud can you get the amp without it self-oscillating?
 
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endofall said:
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Dude you're awesome! Thanks for making those videos, that's exactly the kind of info that answers questions.

Even at 2 though, a Mark's linear Master Volume taper is going to be loud. Not stadium loud, but easily painful if you stand in the wrong spot, and loud enough for a band. Easily loud enough for recording, too.

Ok so that's obviously less than ideal, but personally for me, I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker.
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
Dude you're awesome! Thanks for making those videos, that's exactly the kind of info that answers questions.

Even at 2, a Mark's linear volume taper is going to be loud. Not stadium loud, but easily painful if you stand in the wrong spot, and loud enough for a band. Easily loud enough for recording, too.

Ok so that's obviously less than ideal, but personally for me, I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker.
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That’s where I’m at. Realistically you don’t need input 1, treble and gain on 10, that’s way too much. So it works and I love what I get out of it without pushing those settings to that point so I’m willing to live with it for sure. I do wish that it didn’t have the oscillation but unless Mesa offers to fix it, I’m not sure what can be done.
 
endofall said:
That’s where I’m at. Realistically you don’t need input 1, treble and gain on 10, that’s way too much. So it works and I love what I get out of it without pushing those settings to that point so I’m willing to live with it for sure. I do wish that it didn’t have the oscillation but unless Mesa offers to fix it, I’m not sure what can be done.
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Yep. Also, just to reiterate, I'm not sure people realize how loud a Mark on 2 really is. It's loud. A Mark's Lead Master at 4 is probably already literally maxing out and approaching poweramp breakup. Master on 3 is easily "standing way out in the mix" loud. Master 2 is "merely" painfully loud, hah.

Again it's a linear volume pot. The volume shoots up very, very early. I don't think it's going to be a problem for 99% of players, even for the highest gain stuff.
 
thegame said:
That’s the best Tom Morello guitar solo I’ve ever heard
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IMG_7425.jpeg
 
One point that might be getting lost is the one @glpg80 made: not hearing it squeal doesn't mean the oscillation isn't there, and it can still cause problems even if you can't hear it. From the videos, it seems like it gets higher in pitch and then disappears when tweaking knobs, which could indicate that it's just going out of hearing range. My (limited) understanding of this is that if there is an oscillation outside of hearing it can still do stuff like burn out your tubes quickly (as @glpg80 mentioned), reduce power output, and cause distortion artifacts (which @glpg80 also mentioned). If it's out of hearing range, your amp is still amplifying and being worked by the oscillation signal in addition to the normal guitar signal, you just can't hear the fundamental frequency of the oscillation because either something somewhere can't reproduce that frequency and just absorbs the energy, or it's reproduced but you can't hear it.

I'm still a bit shaky on the details of this stuff though, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
I would say that's less than ideal, but not totally out of the ordinary. I play death metal. I'm usually in the 7-8 range on gains and treble on the IV.

If I gun one of the gains to 10 I lower the other to compensate. Like Gain on 6 Drive on 10 or Gain 10 Drive 6, etc. and the combo of Volume/Pull Bright has always been the culprit for squeal.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Yep. Also, just to reiterate, I'm not sure people realize how loud a Mark on 2 really is. It's loud. A Mark's Lead Master at 4 is probably already literally maxing out and approaching poweramp breakup. Master on 3 is easily "standing way out in the mix" loud. Master 2 is "merely" painfully loud, hah.

Again it's a linear volume pot. The volume shoots up very, very early. I don't think it's going to be a problem for 99% of players, even for the highest gain stuff.
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Maybe the Mark IIC+'s topology is different than my Caliber 50+ with regards to Master volume(s), but doesn't Master 1 set the overall output volume for BOTH channels and 'Lead Master' sets the balance between clean (rhythm) and lead modes? Meaning, if the Master is reasonably low (<2), even a higher Lead Master (3 to 4 or 5) wouldn't make it shockingly loud?

If so, then since Endofall's Master 1 is set at 2, which, as you mentioned is loud, but not deafening.
If they work fully independantly, than yeah, I can see most people never will have the Lead Master over 3...

Then again, most people wouldn't run Volume, Treble *and* Lead Drive literally at 10 at the same time. :p
But @endofall great video that shows exactly what happens. I wonder how much more on the Lead Master you can get if you set all 3 buttons to 9 or 8... given that around 7-8 would be a setting where most people tend to live with these, right?

For comparison, if I'm playing at home at normal levels with my Caliber 50+ (which is supposed to be a scaled down Mark III circuit, if I've read correctly here and there), Gain (or Volume) is around 5 to 8, Treble around 6.5~7, (bass and mid <3, Presence could be anywhere between 3 and 8), Master at 1.3~1.5 and Lead Master somewhere between 3 and 4.
 
Holy-diver said:
Is there a guitar plugged in or is this with nothing plugged in? If so I could get a semblance of the same issue on my mark iiis but not nearly as bad
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No guitar plugged in and nothing in the loop. It still does it with the guitar plugged in and the volume down on it. A video was posted on TGP where someone tried extreme settings on his original IIC+ and got it to oscillate so it seems to be normal. Also here is a response I just got from Mesa.


IMG_7429.png
 
endofall said:
That’s where I’m at. Realistically you don’t need input 1, treble and gain on 10, that’s way too much. So it works and I love what I get out of it without pushing those settings to that point so I’m willing to live with it for sure. I do wish that it didn’t have the oscillation but unless Mesa offers to fix it, I’m not sure what can be done.
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You could send it back and wait for a proper one.
 
endofall said:
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:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Sorry, but this is just silly shit. Why are you running the gain on 10?? It's unusable that high, all 4 OG C+s I've had react the same way. In fact, the gain on 6-7 was too much. Of course it's going to go into feedback set like that.
I got an idea...why don't we show a 5153 on the Red ch and DIME the gain, then turn up the vol??
Squeals all day.

Diming the gain on a HIGH GAIN amp, then turning up the volume, leads to FEEDBACK!! Oh no. News at 10.
:ROFLMAO:
Edit: After listening again, it does sound more like a microphonic tube. So different than just feedback. But, try putting the lead gain on a normal level, not 10. No one puts that on 10, because it sounds like ass and feedback is huge. Try 4-6 and see if that still occurs.
 
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endofall said:
No guitar plugged in and nothing in the loop. It still does it with the guitar plugged in and the volume down on it. A video was posted on TGP where someone tried extreme settings on his original IIC+ and got it to oscillate so it seems to be normal. Also here is a response I just got from Mesa.


View attachment 370832
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So basically this is a feature, not a bug
 
Racerxrated said:
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Sorry, but this is just silly shit. Why are you running the gain on 10?? It's unusable that high, all 4 OG C+s I've had react the same way. In fact, the gain on 6-7 was too much. Of course it's going to go into feedback set like that.
I got an idea...why don't we show a 5153 on the Red ch and DIME the gain, then turn up the vol??
Squeals all day.

Diming the gain on a HIGH GAIN amp, then turning up the volume, leads to FEEDBACK!! Oh no. News at 10.
:ROFLMAO:
Edit: After listening again, it does sound more like a microphonic tube. So different than just feedback. But, try putting the lead gain on a normal level, not 10. No one puts that on 10, because it sounds like ass and feedback is huge. Try 4-6 and see if that still occurs.
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Yeah so that’s not a microphone tube. It is oscillation. The reason I posted the video is because people have been talking about it. The video you quoted was a reply video where I was asked to set it like that, specifically those settings. Maybe check out the one before it. Again the settings on it the video before are higher gain but not as high as the video you referenced. I get that it’s going to go into oscillation at any extreme setting. The point of all of this is to see what’s normal and what’s not.
 
Change everything on that email to say “shift the oscillation to within audible range” anytime he mentioned oscillation. The amps are likely still very much oscillating but within inaudible ranges. Even then you can still catch inaudible oscillation tones audibly via a change in the gain character/structure and attitude of the amp such as when rolling your volume knob quickly on your guitar and catching a whistle.

To not make them stable everywhere means you’re going to likely notice decreased tube life long term.

If I bought a new tube amp and they sent me that email id be returning it. It likely is just designed wrong as I also stated prior.
 
endofall said:
Yeah so that’s not a microphone tube. It is oscillation. The reason I posted the video is because people have been talking about it. The video you quoted was a reply video where I was asked to set it like that, specifically those settings. Maybe check out the one before it. Again the settings on it the video before are higher gain but not as high as the video you referenced. I get that it’s going to go into oscillation at any extreme setting. The point of all of this is to see what’s normal and what’s not.
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How loud can it go with Gains and Treble on 8 and the Lead Pull Bright pushed in?
 
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