MESA/Boogie® Mark IIC+ full demo & overview ft. Doug West & Tommy Waugh

[GJgo]

even though i run my III differently, i can totally appreciate where you like your presence set on the marks for your style of music. my best bud Zach ran his III Coli and subsequent IIIs lively in the top end similar to your settings except he kept presence at 3. in his hard rock bands it sliced and diced live.

i always ran my presence 3-4 and started with 2200 and 6600 on the GEQ very low, raising until the tone cut properly in the mix to my ear.

what i’d really like someone to demo on the C+ reissue is footswitching from the cleanest clean setting they can dial in while preserving the proper high gain tones.

IME it depends on the room, the guitar & the cab. My gig setup is fairly static so going from rehearsal to a show just the room changes, and I find that I only tweak 80hz and 6600 for the room. I can see setting your presence based on if you want the top end more smooth or more raw though, then balancing to suit with 6600. I've always liked more raw (high pres) for thrashy stuff, but I can see a guy wanting it low (more smooth) for a brown sound.

Guitar wise for example, going from my EMG to my Fishman guitar I have to really pump up the 80 & the 2200 to get it to equate. Same story if I switch speakers, a re-EQ will be in order. Settings are so contextual not only to the gear, but also to the style being played.

On my IIs and IIIs if I want a clean clean and a high gain tone on the two channels it doesn't seem to me as big for a deal as I hear guys make it out to be. If I was recording I'd set things differently to optimize, but live it's totally usable. Even more so if you're willing to roll your vol knob back for cleans.

 

[anomaly]

Man there’s no way in hell anyone with ears puts a mark v next to any recto and tells me it’s anywhere near the recto in terms of “crushing.” Also CC probably had the rectos on that album too

Apparently they liked the extreme mode on the V and used it in the studio, they said they liked the low end from it. Personally, i've never played a five. Sounds good on the album though.

 

[anomaly]

Hey I never said Marks can't get heavy. They definitely can. And for stuff where you need the tightest, most controlled kind of gain you can get, like say for Thrash, I don't know if I can think of a series of amp more suited to that.

But a Mark can't touch a properly boosted Recto for gigantic crushing heavy tones. Lots of amps are better for that kind of tone than Marks. But Marks have their own unique thing that other amps don't really do either.

I think the Coli's and the IV can touch the recto's for gigantic crushing tones. I know the IV's actually take a boost well with the treble dropped a bit so you can dial in a kinda loose tone, then tighten it up with a boost and do a recto style tone with it. With the presence pushed they've got that low end punch to them as well.

 

[Racerxrated]

Running your Marks into a 16ohm 100w cab is not going to hurt anything - especially in the short run. They are overbuilt and can handle that mismatch as noted earlier in the thread. From the manual. Right?




This seems correct to me.

I personally don't think I'm a Mark guy, so all of this MK talk is nothing but entertainment for me. Tone porn.

Clips are getting closer too. Looking up.

Yes.

You are safe running any amp, from a lower ohm speaker out into a higher rated cab. 4-8, 4-16, 8-16. You can even run at 4 ohm out, into an 8 and a 16 ohm cab at the same time as the amp sees 5.33 ohms, making it safe.
Now, keep in mind a mismatch will change the tone a bit(more perceived lows, less bright) and lower the output some as the amp won't be as loud as if you match the output/cab ohms.

If you run the opposite, say 16 ohm out to a 4/8 ohm cab that is where the danger lies with both the tubes and more importantly, the OT. Some say certain amps are ok to do this with, Mesa for instance in their old manuals say it's fine but I'd not take the chance.

 

[Candiria]

Apparently they liked the extreme mode on the V and used it in the studio, they said they liked the low end from it. Personally, i've never played a five. Sounds good on the album though.

Extreme mode on the V is pretty crushing. You can't scoop it as much as a IV, but the low end is tighter and has a thump to it.

 

[thegame]

The first rants are comming

That was a rational, succinct and articulate synopsis of the events. But I’d rather just continue shitposting rampant and barely informed crass speculations myself. Who’s with me ?

 

[peterc52]

 

[GJgo]

Extreme mode on the V is pretty crushing. You can't scoop it as much as a IV, but the low end is tighter and has a thump to it.

That's because Extreme on the V has no negative feedback, like Modern on the Rectos and the IIB Colis. The trade off is that it makes it a bit more loose, which you can gather back in with a boost.

The C+ tone on the V is pretty meh for high gain, most guys agree the IV tone is better although neither are as lively as an OG. That said I do really like the Mark I tone on the big V, and REALLY like the Crunch tone on the baby Vs.

 

[ultimatemetalguitartones]

That's because Extreme on the V has no negative feedback, like Modern on the Rectos and the IIB Colis. The trade off is that it makes it a bit more loose, which you can gather back in with a boost.

The C+ tone on the V is pretty meh for high gain, most guys agree the IV tone is better although neither are as lively as an OG. That said I do really like the Mark I tone on the big V, and REALLY like the Crunch tone on the baby Vs.

Agreed - The crunch is really raw and open unlike the other modes

 

[GJgo]

While I do like C++ in the bedroom and on the mic, in the live band I tend to prefer C+ boosted when I want it as tight & precise as possible. Sounds legit here.

That said, between the IIB, IIC+, III and IV, the C+ is my least favorite live because the happy 750 range is SO narrow, and it's just too polite compared to the others for thrashy stuff.

 

[GJgo]

Agreed - The crunch is really raw and open unlike the other modes

Yeah. I think a reason I personally prefer the OG IIs and IIIs is because of that raw, open, 3D character they have. To me the IV still has some of this and moves a lot of air but it is transitioning towards the modern compression.

The big V just doesn't have it- it's a lot more modern, which I do think is a benefit for 7/8 strings so there is a place for it. Like you said Crunch on the baby Vs does have it, with way better tone overall than the 90, and I do really like the Five 35 for everything short of trying to keep up at full metal band volume. If you could slave a baby V into a Strategy I think it could be a killer.

The JP (2 trick pony) also doesn't have it UNLESS you can get the channel masters up above about 1:30 which is damn loud. If that amp had a global MV it could have been a game changer. There's a weird mid hump from the Deep being hardwired on, but I don't hate it in the live mix.

The VII finally got back to some of the raw feels, and I do appreciate it in the bedroom for that, but the amp's attack is as mushy as a bowl of oatmeal and live / at band volume it doens't move any air & completely washes out. A/Bing against an OG with a 4x12 is honestly a joke in terms of how much air it's moving.

From the room clips guys are posting I think the Reissue will be in the ballpark / close enough for a thumbs up on the tone. If we get the same story on the feels, and on the attack, and on the liquidity, I think we'll have a winner.

 

[stephen sawall]

While I do like C++ in the bedroom and on the mic, in the live band I tend to prefer C+ boosted when I want it as tight & precise as possible. Sounds legit here.

That said, between the IIB, IIC+, III and IV, the C+ is my least favorite live because the happy 750 range is SO narrow, and it's just too polite compared to the others for thrashy stuff.

I also prefer the III and IV over the IIC+. Currently have a IV.
But I like all the Mark series.

 

[Speeddemon]

C+ vs Mark Five 35, which is my favorite tonally of all the Fives.

I wonder if you crank the presence knob and the 80Hz slider a bit more on the V:35 and lower the 750Hz, if you'd get closer to the C+.
I mostly hear a change in low-end and middyness.

Almost the same with your VII to 2C+ comparison videos; the VII sounds less aggressive and a tad more honky/middy, but I wonder if you can dial it out a tad more.

FWIW; I think the 2C+ mode on my V:25 is too middy (more Santana than Metallica basically), the IV mode is better, but still thinnish, and I get the most mileage out of the Xtreme mode, but it's definitely not that MOP/AJFA tone.

 

[shredi knight]

I don't know if this has been posted before but to me it sounds nothing like a real amp - maybe a plugin or sth

It was posted, then deleted because of the same skepticism (the original post still exist in a subsequent quoted post, page #19 of this thread).

Then the creator of the clip chimed in with this (also on page #19).

It's the real deal, going through my friend's cab with some eminence speaker. I'll be borrowing it and running it through my v30 and greenback cabs soon.

 

[GJgo]

I wonder if you crank the presence knob and the 80Hz slider a bit more on the V:35 and lower the 750Hz, if you'd get closer to the C+.
I mostly hear a change in low-end and middyness.

Almost the same with your VII to 2C+ comparison videos; the VII sounds less aggressive and a tad more honky/middy, but I wonder if you can dial it out a tad more.

FWIW; I think the 2C+ mode on my V:25 is too middy (more Santana than Metallica basically), the IV mode is better, but still thinnish, and I get the most mileage out of the Xtreme mode, but it's definitely not that MOP/AJFA tone.

WIth all the modern Marks with the Pull Deep hardwired it's really hard to get rid of that weird mid hump. That said, with the baby Fives at least my Treble Dump trick REALLY wakes them up. May work on other modern Marks, not sure. Give it a try. Standard 0:50, treble dump 1:50.



Yeah I never should have sold that cab.

Unfortunatley I don't think it's possible to dial the aggression into the VII. The pick attack is so mushy you could eat it with your dentures out.

 

[Candiria]

That's because Extreme on the V has no negative feedback, like Modern on the Rectos and the IIB Colis. The trade off is that it makes it a bit more loose, which you can gather back in with a boost.

The C+ tone on the V is pretty meh for high gain, most guys agree the IV tone is better although neither are as lively as an OG. That said I do really like the Mark I tone on the big V, and REALLY like the Crunch tone on the baby Vs.

Yep agreed. Extreme mode is meant to mimic the IV with Presence pushed and the IV mode is presence pulled. The VII is way closer to the IV though.

The Mark V really is a good amp though when you consider all the things it's trying to do and that it's 15+ years old at this point.

Between the Mark V, VII, and baby V there's the perfect do it all on the fly Mark amp. They just can't get it all into one package lol

 

[Bram576]

Apparently they liked the extreme mode on the V and used it in the studio, they said they liked the low end from it. Personally, i've never played a five. Sounds good on the album though.

Yeah, it’s blended. Mostly recto like every corpse album though… except the real old stuff that’s crate. I know Rutan has added in other amps on a few albums. His Marshall a few times etc. Rutan usually (like most people) runs his main guitar track pretty high and the other at least 12 db underneath it.

 

[Speeddemon]

but the amp's attack is as mushy as a bowl of oatmeal

 

[Simon Dorn]

 

[50WEST]

That’s better, for sure… obviously there are going to be differences. Not sure how much better this is than the IIC+ mode on the VII?