tallcoolone
Well-known member
Lots of members here don’t have any experience at all and yet still hold strong opinions about the tech. Crazy I know and I can’t explain it ?
Good to hear you aren’t one of those guys.
Good to hear you aren’t one of those guys.
lespaul6
Well-known member
What I noticed switching back and forth is that there is a difference in the "width" and bottom end... the digital almost felt like a blanket was over the tone... that;s what I heard/felt and its just my opinion. A lot of bands use them for consistency and they don't have to deal with tube maintenance so I get it.
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Candiria
Well-known member
There's a couple controls inside the Axe FX you need to tweak when comparing to a tube amp, and maybe the most important one is called High Treble. It helps with the blanket thing for sure, as well as taming that weird high end when it sounds too digital.
You can definitely tell a difference while switching back and forth between an Axe FX and Tube amp on an A/B switcher while playing in the same room as the cab... But I mean that's really it. Both me and my buddy have gotten confused as to which was which while standing a couple feet away from the cab just because we weren't the ones playing.
In my experience a tube power amp is really what makes the difference with a modeler, but I've never played the FM9 through a high end solid state power amp either, just the Seymour Duncan stuff.
But this is all in the room with it while playing alone. If you're talking about a recording or with a live band there's no way anyone would be able to tell. Even if you don't like the way it sounds it doesn't mean it's because of the thing producing the sound, which was my point by saying Jose Modded Marshalls sound like shit because I didn't like the way 72 Seasons sounded lol.
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VESmedic
Well-known member
It has absolutely zero to do with tube maintenance….
This is exactly what we are talking about, you guys really don’t understand these things and why people use them in the least.
And really? A blanket over the tone? Do I need to post clips???
Bram576
Well-known member
Blind test would be cool. An A, B, C, D what’s a real amp, what’s a tube amp maybe? I sure as shit wouldn’t pass it
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Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
The way they feel while playing is si different ti me . I have axe fx and tube amps obviously but that’s the huge difference for meBlind test would be cool. An A, B, C, D what’s a real amp, what’s a tube amp maybe? I sure as shit wouldn’t pass it
tallcoolone
Well-known member
I find it hard to believe any serious player would accept “a blanket over their tone” in order to not have to deal with tube maintenance. I’m a nobody and I sure wouldn’t. I owned over $35k in tube amps and guitar cabs when I was using the AXE.
What modeler were you using?
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tallcoolone
Well-known member
IMO that is a bonus with the AXE. The Splawn Quickrod is the perfect example. Killer midrange grind but uncomfortably stiff response wise. A very common complaint with that amp—I owned 2 of em. Once you acclimate to the response of the AXE (which is 100% adjustable), you can be comfortable with any of the amps. I never felt the response with the AXE to be “non amp like”
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VESmedic
Well-known member
Here it is guys…. Blanket over the speaker, digital tone. And before anyone cries about the high end, it’s an extremely bright sounding IR. And a proper sounding recto cab with a 57 at that. 2001 speakers.
Typical standard 5150, 808, Mesa cab setup
https://on.soundcloud.com/rvC8BYtDra4wgMpg8
Typical standard 5150, 808, Mesa cab setup
https://on.soundcloud.com/rvC8BYtDra4wgMpg8
tallcoolone
Well-known member
Love it man
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VESmedic
Well-known member
More digital tones…. ESPECIALLY those lead tones in the middle of the song, CAE 3+ preamp…. And don’t even get me started on the bass tones. Listen to that super blanket over the speaker main rhythm tones guys.
https://on.soundcloud.com/6dbsHuXPYpLTH55t6
https://on.soundcloud.com/6dbsHuXPYpLTH55t6
tallcoolone
Well-known member
Fukkin savage. This is so much cooler than bitching about an 80s bands’ current live tone. Rock on my man, keep ‘em comin
Is that AXE bass as well?
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
That’s opposite for me . The axe efx feels small and slinky feel was. I don’t like it . It’s cool fir soloing though. That’s what I use it for
tallcoolone
Well-known member
I don’t understand ‘feels small’? Sounds like a monitoring issue?
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
It’s not about the found . It’s about the feeling us with my hands . That’s why I use it for leads . The feeling of the strings . It just feelings slinkier a way easier on the hands . Even I’m the efx loop of my amps I kick it on for thst slinky less fight . But I’m riffs I don’t like that feeling. That’s just me though .
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Candiria
Well-known member
I had the same experience for awhile with the FM9. I was only using it for leads because of the feel. Out of the box though most patches have too much gain, and compression.
Most of the stuff I've tried to do is mess with the feel because it wasn't percussive enough. I could make it super tight really easily, but it lacked the percussive low-end.
The first things I adjust on a patch are Gain, High Treble, and the Cut switch. Also finding the right boost depending on the patch, as well as utilizing a parametric EQ to sculpt the low end or high end further if necessary.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
I’m not busting balls, but these two examples of ‘blanket over the tone’ and ‘feels slinkier‘ are exactly what’s being discussed in the context of people making claims/putting forth opinions that don’t really hold any weight in reality. Being fair, I have zero experience with other modelers outside of 15 minutes with Helix Native and the ToneX software and 95% of my experience is on Fractal gear, I don’t even know what the others have for options. Just in the amp block alone, not even getting to the cab block or an EQ block, you can dial in more high end than any guitar player would ever want to have or is usable in any way.
If it sounds like there’s a blanket over the tone, change it with one of the 1500000 options for doing so. Pre/post pre-amp? Fuck it, do both. Or just change the IR to one that’s more suitable for what you‘re going for and not do any tweaking.
Same goes for the feel stuff; take a JCM800 model, turn the MV down and the drive up, you got a stiff feeling JCM800, back off the drive and turn the Master up, starts getting a bit slinkier. The one thing I will say from my experience with Dual Recs, Mark IV’s and 5150’s, the MV in Fractal stuff seems like it ’kicks in’ a little faster than what I’ve experienced with the actual amps; like an actual Dual Rec with the MV at 3 doesn’t start introducing power amp distortion quite like it does with the Fractal models and I end up running the MV’s rather low on high gain amps as a result.
I went 25 years playing through tube amps, mostly half and full stacks, I’ve been in the digital world for 5 years. It’s not like I went 25 years without hearing what those amps were doing, the last decade with them was mostly spent in studios sticking mic‘s on them and listening to them under a microscope, which is exactly how I ended up in the digital world after hearing enough digital stuff do the job just fine.
That said, the one thing I agree with many on is the physical feeling aspect when playing through an amp, so I just run it all into guitar cabs. I can track all day through studio monitors but if I’m playing live and going through the hassle of loading gear or just being in a band, I want an actual cab.
If it sounds like there’s a blanket over the tone, change it with one of the 1500000 options for doing so. Pre/post pre-amp? Fuck it, do both. Or just change the IR to one that’s more suitable for what you‘re going for and not do any tweaking.
Same goes for the feel stuff; take a JCM800 model, turn the MV down and the drive up, you got a stiff feeling JCM800, back off the drive and turn the Master up, starts getting a bit slinkier. The one thing I will say from my experience with Dual Recs, Mark IV’s and 5150’s, the MV in Fractal stuff seems like it ’kicks in’ a little faster than what I’ve experienced with the actual amps; like an actual Dual Rec with the MV at 3 doesn’t start introducing power amp distortion quite like it does with the Fractal models and I end up running the MV’s rather low on high gain amps as a result.
I went 25 years playing through tube amps, mostly half and full stacks, I’ve been in the digital world for 5 years. It’s not like I went 25 years without hearing what those amps were doing, the last decade with them was mostly spent in studios sticking mic‘s on them and listening to them under a microscope, which is exactly how I ended up in the digital world after hearing enough digital stuff do the job just fine.
That said, the one thing I agree with many on is the physical feeling aspect when playing through an amp, so I just run it all into guitar cabs. I can track all day through studio monitors but if I’m playing live and going through the hassle of loading gear or just being in a band, I want an actual cab.
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
I just don’t like it for riffs . I’ve tried . Fir me I love it for soloing more than tubes . But tubes all the way for riffs . The feel is not for me . There is a difference
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VESmedic
Well-known member
And to me that’s totally cool, I won’t even begin to argue how something “feels” to someone else. Do I personally agree? No, but that’s so much more subjective and personal even than guitar tone itself.
Here is another super subpar digital fractal clip of the 5153. This might be one of my favorite tones I’ve done in a long time actually. So upfront and in your face without being harsh…. Where’s the blanket?!
https://on.soundcloud.com/QW7baiJYjZN91Ws36
nightlight
Well-known member
Great clips, @VESmedic . I'd say the quality of the IRs you're using (and I am aware that you have access to the studios of Colin Richardson, among others) have a large role to do with how good those sound.
This is the Angle Severe preset on the Axe FXIII with some IRs I purchased from Ownhammer. Night and day difference compared to yours, but keep in mind that they were a quantum leap in comparison to the ones I was using earlier.
It's in a mix that's unfortunately of higher volume than the next one. And it's a terrible, terrible mix, with the snare getting swallowed up by the kick, which is all click.
This one is an Engl Savage 120 (a real amp) into a different IR (unfortunately) in a mix that is unfortunately for a different song and a much lower volume:
I'm not sure either of them have a blanket over the speaker sound (it can get quite difficult when the volumes are different), but I don't think this fight goes to the real amp. EDIT: Or maybe I'm wrong. I uploaded the actual audio file to Soundcloud and the mix is better, so hey, don't shoot me. I'm more in the camp of "This one today, that one tomorrow" when it comes to gear.
This is the Angle Severe preset on the Axe FXIII with some IRs I purchased from Ownhammer. Night and day difference compared to yours, but keep in mind that they were a quantum leap in comparison to the ones I was using earlier.
It's in a mix that's unfortunately of higher volume than the next one. And it's a terrible, terrible mix, with the snare getting swallowed up by the kick, which is all click.
This one is an Engl Savage 120 (a real amp) into a different IR (unfortunately) in a mix that is unfortunately for a different song and a much lower volume:
I'm not sure either of them have a blanket over the speaker sound (it can get quite difficult when the volumes are different), but I don't think this fight goes to the real amp. EDIT: Or maybe I'm wrong. I uploaded the actual audio file to Soundcloud and the mix is better, so hey, don't shoot me. I'm more in the camp of "This one today, that one tomorrow" when it comes to gear.
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