More Cameron CCV pics from today 8/23/11

[killertone]

FYI - it was just a question and not meant to start a shitstorm. I could care less either way as i am not interested in the amp.....

.....YET!

...you never know...I didn't care for the CCV that I played (I think it was owned by The Hoff) but these new ones may be better. Who knows?

 

[Neeklaus]

Couldn't you just get Mark C to mod the logo?

 

[GuitarGoat]

All the tubes are pcb mount?

only the pres...

Steve

Cool.

I figured as much but wanted to be sure. PCB mounted pres are just fine, IMO. Just thought for $3500 the Power tubes should be chassis mount and I was right!

FYI - it was just a question and not meant to start a shitstorm. I could care less either way as i am not interested in the amp, I was just curious.

I don't think you started a shitstorm - it is just an interesting discussion because there are a lot of misconceptions about PCB vs. turret board design... even with regards to PCB mounted power tubes if ya talk to ole Stevie Fryette!

Steve

It made me laugh when I opened up my Sig:X and it said "Proudly PCB-Mounted Power Tubes since 1989" or something like that. Could have the year off or the exact quote off but it was along those lines.

 

[Chubtone]

Congrats Brad. It's got to be a good feeling to turn these things from impossible to get ahold of vaporware to a stack of real amplifiers.

 

[pstar]

interesting topic and direction. Past experiences with recto's over the last 20 years that i have had, most techs will not repair them in my area. They refuse too. Also the hughes and kittners no tech around here will touch them. Now on the other hand my collection of old hand wire amps, every tech gets excited to do any work on them, and with open arms. My old 60's fenders, 60's marshalls, early 70's hiwatts, 60's traynors. perhaps some of the techies could chime in. Some of the best techs i have ever encountered all swear at these new designs when they need repairs. Just my experiences.

 

[jerrydyer]

great amps have minimal components. You would be surprised how few components are in these. Might as well be hand wired point to point. no difference. its a classic design with some great hot rod tricks.

 

[killertone]

All the tubes are pcb mount?

only the pres...

Steve

Cool.

I figured as much but wanted to be sure. PCB mounted pres are just fine, IMO. Just thought for $3500 the Power tubes should be chassis mount and I was right!

FYI - it was just a question and not meant to start a shitstorm. I could care less either way as i am not interested in the amp, I was just curious.

I don't think you started a shitstorm - it is just an interesting discussion because there are a lot of misconceptions about PCB vs. turret board design... even with regards to PCB mounted power tubes if ya talk to ole Stevie Fryette!

Steve

Oh, I remember his essay he posted on his website probably 10 years ago. Can't forget it for that matter.

I have a couple amps with all the tubes mounted on pcbs. I have gigged with all of them heavily and have never had probs. They each ran around $1600 new.

I guess what I might be saying is that I am glad there is that little bit of extra hand work in an amp that costs as much as a CCV.

 

[Anonymous]

great amps have minimal components. You would be surprised how few components are in these. Might as well be hand wired point to point. no difference. its a classic design with some great hot rod tricks.

You gonna hand wire the midi stuff?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

All the tubes are pcb mount?

only the pres...

Steve

Cool.

I figured as much but wanted to be sure. PCB mounted pres are just fine, IMO. Just thought for $3500 the Power tubes should be chassis mount and I was right!

FYI - it was just a question and not meant to start a shitstorm. I could care less either way as i am not interested in the amp, I was just curious.

I don't think you started a shitstorm - it is just an interesting discussion because there are a lot of misconceptions about PCB vs. turret board design... even with regards to PCB mounted power tubes if ya talk to ole Stevie Fryette!

Steve

Oh, I remember his essay he posted on his website probably 10 years ago. Can't forget it for that matter.

I have a couple amps with all the tubes mounted on pcbs. I have gigged with all of them heavily and have never had probs. They each ran around $1600 new.

I guess what I might be saying is that I am glad there is that little bit of extra hand work in an amp that costs as much as a CCV.

What you're paying for in the CCV isn't the hand labor to wire the power tubes. It is high quality components and boards, custom transformers, etc...

Steve

 

[FourT6and2]

Nice. One thing catches my eye, though.

Those red and black (heater?) wires are not actually twisted correctly (unless the CCV is running elevated and/or DC heaters). One wire is twisted around the other, when both should be twisted. Otherwise you don't get the noise-cancelling effect that twisted-pair wiring normally yields. Unless there's some other reason the lead dress on those wires is like that...

Notice how one wire is just straight, with the other wrapped around it?

Shouldn't it be like this, where BOTH leads are twisted (correct me if I'm wrong)?

 

[The Hoff]

Exciting stuff!!!

 

[Chris6870]

Nice. One thing catches my eye, though.

Those red and black (heater?) wires are not actually twisted correctly (unless the CCV is running elevated and/or DC heaters). One wire is twisted around the other, when both should be twisted. Otherwise you don't get the noise-cancelling effect that twisted-pair wiring normally yields. Unless there's some other reason the lead dress on those wires is like that...

Notice how one wire is just straight, with the other wrapped around it?

Shouldn't it be like this, where BOTH leads are twisted (correct me if I'm wrong)?

Yeah,things just got set back 3 months while we fix that.

 

[chumbucket]

Steve, your argument about the advantages only benefit the builder in terms of build speed (and profits essentially).

No, you see, that is where you are wrong. You, the buyer, benefit from a less expensive, more consistent sounding, more easily maintainable and more available amplifier. Also, let's get real specific here - I am talking about complex, modern channel switchers like the CCV, not single channel amps that are reasonably cost effective to build hand-wired turret design. It is much easier to make the lead dress consistent on a single channel (although as many old Marshalls prove - not fool proof), and unless you are really stamping them out like Marshall, quick enough to build. Channel switchers, with loops, midi, etc are much too complex to build this way if there is reasonable demand. They are going to cost more because they take more time. Personally, I still would not shy away from a single channel PCB amp made with quality components and boards...

I think your experiences with PCB amps have more to do with cheaper components and mass manufacturing than anything inherent in PCB design. I'll also say you have been lucky with your turret board Marshalls, as an absolutely common complaint is how different one old Marshall sounds from another. Components do not wear any differently on a PCB than on a turret board - that is common sense. There should be no reason a qualifed tech lifts a solder trace replacing a component or any other "weirdness".

Choose whatever works for you, but there is no reason to believe a well built, PCB designed amp using really good components like the CCV will not give you great tone and many years of trouble free service...

Steve

I see what you mean there Steve but I can't agree with you on the more easily maintainable part. A lot of amps with PC boards are a total bitch to work on. As someone else noted here that in their area, some techs won't even work on this stuff. I have that with 2 techs in my area. If you have a 5150, it ain't getting cracked open because they don't work on Peavey (and other blacklisted gear)(even though they were authorized service centers at one time). I don't have a need for a CCV because I have a Cameron amp that was built on a turret board that breathes fire.

By the way, when are you rolling out your amp? The clips sounded very cool.

 

[cyndicate]

Steve, your argument about the advantages only benefit the builder in terms of build speed (and profits essentially).

No, you see, that is where you are wrong. You, the buyer, benefit from a less expensive, more consistent sounding, more easily maintainable and more available amplifier. Also, let's get real specific here - I am talking about complex, modern channel switchers like the CCV, not single channel amps that are reasonably cost effective to build hand-wired turret design. It is much easier to make the lead dress consistent on a single channel (although as many old Marshalls prove - not fool proof), and unless you are really stamping them out like Marshall, quick enough to build. Channel switchers, with loops, midi, etc are much too complex to build this way if there is reasonable demand. They are going to cost more because they take more time. Personally, I still would not shy away from a single channel PCB amp made with quality components and boards...

I think your experiences with PCB amps have more to do with cheaper components and mass manufacturing than anything inherent in PCB design. I'll also say you have been lucky with your turret board Marshalls, as an absolutely common complaint is how different one old Marshall sounds from another. Components do not wear any differently on a PCB than on a turret board - that is common sense. There should be no reason a qualifed tech lifts a solder trace replacing a component or any other "weirdness".

Choose whatever works for you, but there is no reason to believe a well built, PCB designed amp using really good components like the CCV will not give you great tone and many years of trouble free service...

Steve

I see what you mean there Steve but I can't agree with you on the more easily maintainable part. A lot of amps with PC boards are a total bitch to work on. As someone else noted here that in their area, some techs won't even work on this stuff. I have that with 2 techs in my area. If you have a 5150, it ain't getting cracked open because they don't work on Peavey (and other blacklisted gear)(even though they were authorized service centers at one time). I don't have a need for a CCV because I have a Cameron amp that was built on a turret board that breathes fire.

By the way, when are you rolling out your amp? The clips sounded very cool.

Can you imagine the wait time on a mass produced amp that is hand wired? Especially the CCV? You would be more inclined to see bigfoot before getting your hands on a CCV .

 

[jasonP]

I'm not sure why you are running the heaters that way when using pcb you think it would be DC regulated anyway.. maybe had some noise problems there or forgot the heater traces, that is not what a $3500 amp looks like. Looks like some caps are the wrong PCM/lead spacing.

I wonder if I can move off the 1st production run list and maybe back or get off until after this stuff gets fixed. If not maybe sell my spot in line. I think you guys that got the ones Mark built have something special in my opinion..

 

[killertone]

Steve, your argument about the advantages only benefit the builder in terms of build speed (and profits essentially).

No, you see, that is where you are wrong. You, the buyer, benefit from a less expensive, more consistent sounding, more easily maintainable and more available amplifier. Also, let's get real specific here - I am talking about complex, modern channel switchers like the CCV, not single channel amps that are reasonably cost effective to build hand-wired turret design. It is much easier to make the lead dress consistent on a single channel (although as many old Marshalls prove - not fool proof), and unless you are really stamping them out like Marshall, quick enough to build. Channel switchers, with loops, midi, etc are much too complex to build this way if there is reasonable demand. They are going to cost more because they take more time. Personally, I still would not shy away from a single channel PCB amp made with quality components and boards...

I think your experiences with PCB amps have more to do with cheaper components and mass manufacturing than anything inherent in PCB design. I'll also say you have been lucky with your turret board Marshalls, as an absolutely common complaint is how different one old Marshall sounds from another. Components do not wear any differently on a PCB than on a turret board - that is common sense. There should be no reason a qualifed tech lifts a solder trace replacing a component or any other "weirdness".

Choose whatever works for you, but there is no reason to believe a well built, PCB designed amp using really good components like the CCV will not give you great tone and many years of trouble free service...

Steve

I see what you mean there Steve but I can't agree with you on the more easily maintainable part. A lot of amps with PC boards are a total bitch to work on. As someone else noted here that in their area, some techs won't even work on this stuff. I have that with 2 techs in my area. If you have a 5150, it ain't getting cracked open because they don't work on Peavey (and other blacklisted gear)(even though they were authorized service centers at one time). I don't have a need for a CCV because I have a Cameron amp that was built on a turret board that breathes fire.

By the way, when are you rolling out your amp? The clips sounded very cool.

Can you imagine the wait time on a mass produced amp that is hand wired? Especially the CCV? You would be more inclined to see bigfoot before getting your hands on a CCV .

You still might be.

 

[killertone]

What you're paying for in the CCV isn't the hand labor to wire the power tubes. It is high quality components and boards, custom transformers, etc...

Steve

In the case of the CCV it looks like that is true. In some other similarly priced amplifiers you get both.

 

[jasonP]

All the tubes are pcb mount?

only the pres...

Steve

Cool.

I figured as much but wanted to be sure. PCB mounted pres are just fine, IMO. Just thought for $3500 the Power tubes should be chassis mount and I was right!

FYI - it was just a question and not meant to start a shitstorm. I could care less either way as i am not interested in the amp, I was just curious.

I don't think you started a shitstorm - it is just an interesting discussion because there are a lot of misconceptions about PCB vs. turret board design... even with regards to PCB mounted power tubes if ya talk to ole Stevie Fryette!

Steve

Oh, I remember his essay he posted on his website probably 10 years ago. Can't forget it for that matter.

I have a couple amps with all the tubes mounted on pcbs. I have gigged with all of them heavily and have never had probs. They each ran around $1600 new.

I guess what I might be saying is that I am glad there is that little bit of extra hand work in an amp that costs as much as a CCV.

What you're paying for in the CCV isn't the hand labor to wire the power tubes. It is high quality components and boards, custom transformers, etc...

Steve

I don't think there is more then $1500 dollars in parts max.

 

[Anonymous]

I see what you mean there Steve but I can't agree with you on the more easily maintainable part. A lot of amps with PC boards are a total bitch to work on. As someone else noted here that in their area, some techs won't even work on this stuff. I have that with 2 techs in my area. If you have a 5150, it ain't getting cracked open because they don't work on Peavey (and other blacklisted gear)(even though they were authorized service centers at one time). I don't have a need for a CCV because I have a Cameron amp that was built on a turret board that breathes fire.

Anybody that wouldn't work on a PCB amp is seriously limiting their client list since most amps made today are PCB. I don't quite understand myself. In all my discussion so far, I've always said a well-designed PCB... if it is designed well, it should be easy to maintain...

Once again, use whatever works for ya - glad ya have a nice Cameron. I've heard mods he's done on PCB designed Marshalls as well as Turret Boards and they all sound killer...

By the way, when are you rolling out your amp? The clips sounded very cool.

I'm in the midst of converting the design to PCB.

Seriously, I am... I expect the first batch available end of this year, early next...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

All the tubes are pcb mount?

only the pres...

Steve

Cool.

I figured as much but wanted to be sure. PCB mounted pres are just fine, IMO. Just thought for $3500 the Power tubes should be chassis mount and I was right!

FYI - it was just a question and not meant to start a shitstorm. I could care less either way as i am not interested in the amp, I was just curious.

I don't think you started a shitstorm - it is just an interesting discussion because there are a lot of misconceptions about PCB vs. turret board design... even with regards to PCB mounted power tubes if ya talk to ole Stevie Fryette!

Steve

Oh, I remember his essay he posted on his website probably 10 years ago. Can't forget it for that matter.

I have a couple amps with all the tubes mounted on pcbs. I have gigged with all of them heavily and have never had probs. They each ran around $1600 new.

I guess what I might be saying is that I am glad there is that little bit of extra hand work in an amp that costs as much as a CCV.

What you're paying for in the CCV isn't the hand labor to wire the power tubes. It is high quality components and boards, custom transformers, etc...

Steve

I don't think there is more then $1500 dollars in parts max.

I'll agree, but I guarantee that the $1600 dollar amp mentioned above is more like a few hundred in parts... I never said a CCV was $3500 in parts...

Steve