My Crappy Experience with Kiesel Guitars

[Gitfiddler]

Sounds like even worse service from the CC company. It gets a % cut of everythng you buy, charges you double-digit interest if you carry a balance, yet it hasn’t resolved anything in 3 months? You’ve probably had a longer relationship with the bank/card than you have with Kiesel.

 

[chondroguitars]

Mike Lipe is another small builder who is great to deal with, and his experience, professionalism, and craftsmanship is beyond reproach. I mean come on, dude was the USA Custom Shop Master Builder for Ibanez in the 90's. His price point is in between Kiesel and Tom Anderson. You can get a killer build for about 3k. He calls you every steep of the way, takes detailed pics as each step is being completed, you want to change something mid build, no problem. Great thing is, you talk with HIM, not some talking head. He doesn't use CNC, they are all build by his hands, some like that, others like the perfection of a CNC. Anyone thinking of a Kiesel, should give Mike Lipe a look.

 

[kalt]

Couple things...

First, you should know that in CA, its illegal to record someone without informing them that they are being recorded. Not button your balls, just trying to help.


Second, Kiesels website clearly states they have a ten day return/refund policy which is here : https://www.kieselguitars.com/mbg.php. As far as I could tell (didn't comb through the entire thing) there is absolutely no mention about special provisions for special runs or any type of sale being final. CA law has very specific civil code provisions regarding merchandise returns, you should look them up.


Third, I would not get an attorney (as someone else mentioned) over $600. No one will take it. I would take them to small claims court out of principal, personally. I'd be shocked if you didn't win compensatory as well as punitive damages.

All IMHOP of course.


FWIW, I've ordered from Tom Anderson and have nothing but fantastic things to say about them. Even changed things mid order. Super, super cool company to deal with and I don't know that you can find a better playing guitar.......

Good luck brother!

 

[scottosan]

Couple things...

First, you should know that in CA, its illegal to record someone without informing them that they are being recorded. Not button your balls, just trying to help.


Second, Kiesels website clearly states they have a ten day return/refund policy which is here : https://www.kieselguitars.com/mbg.php. As far as I could tell (didn't comb through the entire thing) there is absolutely no mention about special provisions for special runs or any type of sale being final. CA law has very specific civil code provisions regarding merchandise returns, you should look them up.


Third, I would not get an attorney (as someone else mentioned) over $600. No one will take it. I would take them to small claims court out of principal, personally. I'd be shocked if you didn't win compensatory as well as punitive damages.

All IMHOP of course.


FWIW, I've ordered from Tom Anderson and have nothing but fantastic things to say about them. Even changed things mid order. Super, super cool company to deal with and I don't know that you can find a better playing guitar.......

Good luck brother!

good point. I’d pull the recording and not give them any leverage

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Regardless of this threads validity, I know the shit fucking experience I had with Kiesel's customer service. Undeniably the worst customer service experience I've ever fucking had period.

Dishonest and unprofessional as they get!

Jeff Kiesel went as far as to basically call me out in a Facebook video saying that I Photoshoped pics of the piece of shit they sent me and posted them here and on Sevenstring just to make them look bad. What an egotistical fucking idiot that guy is. I honestly for the life of me can't understand how Kiesel is still in business.

Furthermore, what kills me is all the guys here and on Sevestring that side with stories like these and say things like "Fuck Kiesel...I'll never do business with them again...I'll never buy a Kiesel..." and two weeks later I see these same guys are bragging about the new Kiesel they just ordered

 

[Fiesta Red]

From the Keisel website:

There is a 20% restocking/cancellation fee on all online Custom Shop builds that are cancelled prior to receipt of the instrument. Therefore, if you pay a deposit, and subsequently cancel your order, you will not be refunded the 20% deposit. By selecting the 20% Deposit option in the Guitar Builder, you acknowledge these terms.

On Custom Shop guitars and basses ordered using the 20% deposit, final payment must be made within 30 days of instrument completion. Failing to do so will incur a $100.00 per month fee for holding and storage. After 3 months we will keep 20% plus the 100.00 per month storage fees ($300.00). Keep in mind we do have the Kiesel Card available so you can sign up and pay off your balance using that method if you choose.

https://www.kieselguitars.com/shipping/

 

[psychodave]

I was mixed on the details of this issue and can see both sides, but the link to that other page changes my opinion and makes me side with the op in this thread. I will never order a Kiesel guitar.

 

[Cratchet79]

I just had a very similar experience with Kiesel Guitars too!

Primarily I'm a guitar player. Have been for 25 years. I decided to order a bass from Kiesel on Friday to have at home for writing and composing. My first experience with them was horrible and it will definitely be my last. I got a confirmation of the order details on Saturday following the Friday order. It contained no lead or build time. So I called and spoke to someone after being on hold for roughly 25 minutes. The rep was rude and acted as though I was bothersome to just get some basic details. In the order I agreed to pay the 20% down payment on my new Kiesel Card. I also decided not to let the rude rep get to me and just let it go. I woke up this morning (Monday) to see that my Kiesel card had been charged for $1000 instead of just the 20% I originally agreed to.

I called in again as soon as they opened and spoke to Noble. I explained the situation and the prior rude rep and simply asked for a refund. He then informed me that there would be a 20% restocking fee because the build had already been started. I immediately asked for a manager. Waited on the phone for 10 minutes before being disconnected. When I called back moments later I was put through to Joe who said he needed to speak to higher ups to get authorization for the full refund with no restocking fee. He also casually said that the build HADNT been started although Noble said otherwise. Joe called back within the hour so I'll give him a thumbs up for his followup but informed me that Jeff Kiesel said the only way that theyd refund without the restocking fee would be if I never ordered anything from their company again. I gladly obliged as I NEVER want to support such pompous a$$es as Kiesel or Carvin again. I'll happily stick with my Gibson's and PRS's. Buyer Beware of these jerks

 

[maddnotez]

Jeff Kiesel said the only way that theyd refund without the restocking fee would be if I never ordered anything from their company again.

Now THAT is how you run a business boys and girls.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I know people have had good experiences with them, but my Kiesel experience was an absolute shitshow. I will never do business with them again.

 

[FourT6and2]

I just had a very similar experience with Kiesel Guitars too!

Primarily I'm a guitar player. Have been for 25 years. I decided to order a bass from Kiesel on Friday to have at home for writing and composing. My first experience with them was horrible and it will definitely be my last. I got a confirmation of the order details on Saturday following the Friday order. It contained no lead or build time. So I called and spoke to someone after being on hold for roughly 25 minutes. The rep was rude and acted as though I was bothersome to just get some basic details. In the order I agreed to pay the 20% down payment on my new Kiesel Card. I also decided not to let the rude rep get to me and just let it go. I woke up this morning (Monday) to see that my Kiesel card had been charged for $1000 instead of just the 20% I originally agreed to.

I called in again as soon as they opened and spoke to Noble. I explained the situation and the prior rude rep and simply asked for a refund. He then informed me that there would be a 20% restocking fee because the build had already been started. I immediately asked for a manager. Waited on the phone for 10 minutes before being disconnected. When I called back moments later I was put through to Joe who said he needed to speak to higher ups to get authorization for the full refund with no restocking fee. He also casually said that the build HADNT been started although Noble said otherwise. Joe called back within the hour so I'll give him a thumbs up for his followup but informed me that Jeff Kiesel said the only way that theyd refund without the restocking fee would be if I never ordered anything from their company again. I gladly obliged as I NEVER want to support such pompous a$$es as Kiesel or Carvin again. I'll happily stick with my Gibson's and PRS's. Buyer Beware of these jerks

Kiesel's case would not hold up in court. As soon as they charge your card for more than you contractually agree to, they break their contract. And therefore their rules and policies about refunds or restocking fees go out the window. If you, the customer, break the contract, that's another story. But if what you and the OP say is true—that Kiesel charged your card MORE than agreed—they broke the contract and have no right to any restocking fees.

Not to mention, a "restocking" fee for a product that doesn't exist yet is also not legally binding. If they build the guitar, then they would be able to charge a restocking fee. But running your card and then issuing a refund the next day, before the guitar is even in production, is bogus.

I ordered a car in January. Put down a $10K deposit. I was able to change the specs up until mid March. Car companies give you a lock/freeze date, after which you aren't able to change the configuration. If a car company can do that, a (by comparison) mom-and-pop pipsqueak of a company like Kiesel should be able to as well. Sounds like they're just a toxic company.

 

[ChurchHill]

I emailed Carvin (now Kiesel) a simple question about one of their guitars. They responded that they'd have to check with their "engineers" about it and would get right back to me. Nothing for two weeks, so I emailed them again and got a rather rude reply. Didn't do business with them then and wouldn't now, either. This was about 15-16 years ago. Doesn't sound like they've improved any.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I’ll stick with Suhr and Tom Anderson who imo make the best guitars and have the best customer service.

Good luck I hope it works out for you with your cc company.


What was the total price of this guitar?

You should add Schecter USA Custom Shop to that list. I've owned Suhr and Anderson, I recently bought a Schecter or two and they are awesome. Easily in the Suhr/Anderson league and MUCH cheaper on the used market.

Also, this Kiesel bashing sounds like a similar post that sprang up here about a year ago or so. I wonder if this is just the same guy bashing the compamy over past BS....OR....is this more BS from the company? I'm guessing as usual there's 3 sides to it.

 

[Zado]

The Kiesel-thing is nothing new unfortunately, and many felt unsatisfied/utterly pissed off after dealing with them.

I’ll stick with Suhr and Tom Anderson who imo make the best guitars and have the best customer service.

Good luck I hope it works out for you with your cc company.


What was the total price of this guitar?

You should add Schecter USA Custom Shop to that list. I've owned Suhr and Anderson, I recently bought a Schecter or two and they are awesome. Easily in the Suhr/Anderson league and MUCH cheaper on the used market.

Please provide me some pics.

 

[hatecase]

Wow...It's a real pity people have made so many bad experiences with Kiesel/Carvin. I always thought that was a pretty reputable company. Their instruments seem to be very well built though. I guess I'll have to save up for a used Schecter Custom Shop now, they seem to have a good, or at least better,reputation

 

[Zado]

On sevenstring forum there's a whole 116 pages topic about Kiesel, and it didn't end well.

I guess I'll have to save up for a used Schecter Custom Shop now, they seem to have a good, or at least better,reputation

Make sure you buy one with their own pickups

 

[cardinal]

I have a Schecter custom that is spectacular.

I’ve ordered another and am waiting for it. Was quoted 4-6 months. It’s only been a bit over two. Hopefully they are on time.

The ordering process was awesome. There was no push back at all about anything I wanted. Just some thoughtful follow up questions to make sure we were on the same page. Really hoping it turns out well.

 

[rsm]

I used their online tool to "build" a Vader 6 a few times, never purchased. Instead, I found and purchased Steinberger Synapse guitars.

If I was going to order a custom guitar today (I'm not), I'd be looking at ESP...though I'd probably just get a Toki (Aldious) sig Chunpa V. She has several signature ESP guitars, and H&K amp (not sure if it's a sig or just a custom she has?).

https://www.espguitars.co.jp/gallery/toki/index.html

the Arrow Black Andromeda looks good too:

https://www.espguitars.com/products/169 ... -guitars-2

YMMV

 

[cardinal]

Ugh, have you seen the price on a custom order ESP? They are a little bonkers.

 

[hatecase]

Ugh, have you seen the price on a custom order ESP? They are a little bonkers.

What IS the average price of a custom ordered ESP? I'm kind of curious now I always thought they were rather reasonably set, aren't they?