Now that Hetfield is with Fortin, what'll happen to his Vh4?

[Gainfreak]

Metallica hasn't had good recorded tone since Garage Days Inc (1998) IMO.

No matter what the main amp is on the next recording, Rick Rubin and his great hack of an engineer, Greg Fiddleman are slated to produce/mix/master the next album. That is guaranteed to sound like shit, obscuring any potential good amp tone to be had.

Speaking of Rick Rubin, It's amazing how a guy with such a tin ear has had such a succesful career. He has always been and always will be one of my least favorite people in the biz. I wont even give him the credit of producer since the guy is a hack in my eyes. These day You have kids in their early teens producing better sounding albums out of their homes then any of Rick's work.
All IMHO of course

I know what you're saying, but he seems to have a talent for finding the right people to actually do the production work that he gets credit for. Some of my favorite sounding albums were "produced" by Rick:
The Cult - Electric
Mick Jagger - Wandering Spirit
Trouble - Manic Frustration
And a bunch of other stuff by Tom Petty, Danzig, Johnny Cash, Black Crowes, The Four Horsemen, etc

I agree 100%

My comments are only towards Rick and his production skills lol. Record produciton and sounds were a hobby of mine and I grew up listening to some of the best producers. To bad none of that stuff rubbed off on me because I suck at producing stuff but I know that's only because I am to lazy to learn hahaha

I think Rick's real talent is finding artists. I also think that his HUGE talent is marketing himself and finding others to do the work where he slaps his name on it ........but when it comes to record producing.... His name wouldn't make my top 1,000,000,000,000.

Just my opinion

 

[thegame]

Metallica hasn't had good recorded tone since Garage Days Inc (1998) IMO.

No matter what the main amp is on the next recording, Rick Rubin and his great hack of an engineer, Greg Fiddleman are slated to produce/mix/master the next album. That is guaranteed to sound like shit, obscuring any potential good amp tone to be had.

Hopefully after the trainwreck of production on Death Magnetic, the Metallica guys will be more hands-on with the end production to get the sound where it should be.

Well, they were quite hands-on with St. Anger and that makes Death Magnetic look like an audiophile masterpiece by comparison

 

[Soundguy213]

I too find James' tone nowadays sounds a bit weak on recordings....live it sounds really good (I've been to 6 shows between 2008 - 2009). Although I must say, he's got a bit more mids than I'd use for his style of playing. I know the VH4 is a mid heavy amp, but still.......it's like there's an outboard EQ (FOH maybe?) that's bumping the upper mids a little bit. That used to be Kirk's land so that his solo's would cut more, and james provided the scooped tones.

but yeah....I find the live recorded version is a bit mid heavy for my taste. The VH4 is an amazing amp, as a matter of fact, his Tuning Room tone (only a VH4) sounds better to me than the live tone.

A couple of examples:

Live Tone:

Starts around the 2:12 mark

Tuning Room:

Jesus, imagine all those people there to see you play?

 

[thegame]

Metallica hasn't had good recorded tone since Garage Days Inc (1998) IMO.

No matter what the main amp is on the next recording, Rick Rubin and his great hack of an engineer, Greg Fiddleman are slated to produce/mix/master the next album. That is guaranteed to sound like shit, obscuring any potential good amp tone to be had.

Speaking of Rick Rubin, It's amazing how a guy with such a tin ear has had such a succesful career. He has always been and always will be one of my least favorite people in the biz. I wont even give him the credit of producer since the guy is a hack in my eyes. These day You have kids in their early teens producing better sounding albums out of their homes then any of Rick's work.
All IMHO of course

Some producers are sound guys (Bob Rock comes to mind). Rubin is self admittedly not. I see him more as a coach than a producer. Any good sounding Rubin record can be attributed to his engineer at the moment (Andy Wallace on Reign in Blood for example). Thats a good example a raw stripped down album that sounds great.

 

[angelspade]

I have some thoughts on this...Thought I would chime in:

1. I wouldn't go placing any bets that the Hetfield deal with Fortin will happen. Mr. Fortin makes some GREAT amps/mods, and my understanding is that is that James felt pretty good about the Meathead that Kirk was demoing and had some notes. As far as it being a done deal...Well we will see. James tries out EVERYTHING that Zack wheels into the rehearsal space/studio, and has been rumored to be at various stages of design for a "signature" amp several times (most recently in 2010 with Blackstar).

2. Scott Ian "brokered" the original deal with Kirk for Randall, and is most likely involved at some level in this situation as well. Scott is very friendly with all the guys in Metallica...But Kirk counts him as one of his closest friends...That is why Kirk landed with Randal, and it looks like James may come along with the ride IF they can provide an amp that meets his (very high) standards.

3. A word about the Diezel VH4...It's an absolutely amazing amplifier (I have owned one for several years). Buy in my opinion, it simply does not work with EMG active pickups. My VH4 strongly favors passives. I have always felt the recent issues with Hetfield's live and recorded tones (a bit on the thin side, a little bright and brittle) are, at least in part due to the combination of the VH4's channel 3 and the EMG 81 in the bridge. I would be willing to bet that a Fortin signature amp will be less compressed, a bit more "organic" and rounder sounding than the Diezel VH4...While still maintaining some of the attributes commonly associated with it. In fact, while I have never tried a Fortin Meathead...Several of the clips that I have listened to remind me a a bit of the Diezel VH4.

...Just my thoughts.

 

[Metlupass2]

He gave me his VH4s.

 

[supersonic]

I too find James' tone nowadays sounds a bit weak on recordings....live it sounds really good (I've been to 6 shows between 2008 - 2009). Although I must say, he's got a bit more mids than I'd use for his style of playing. I know the VH4 is a mid heavy amp, but still.......it's like there's an outboard EQ (FOH maybe?) that's bumping the upper mids a little bit. That used to be Kirk's land so that his solo's would cut more, and james provided the scooped tones.

but yeah....I find the live recorded version is a bit mid heavy for my taste. The VH4 is an amazing amp, as a matter of fact, his Tuning Room tone (only a VH4) sounds better to me than the live tone.

A couple of examples:

Live Tone:

Starts around the 2:12 mark

Tuning Room:

The mic is behind the cab in 2nd vid, sounds muffled there, may well be the same settings. These clips are not comparable.

 

[beachbum]

Here's a more accurate (and recent) comparison then. Hit the Lights, last month at the fillmore:

Livemetallica (ISO cab) audio:

audience recording 1:

audience recording 2:

 

[petejt]

One thing I have noticed in recent years is that the recordings of the live shows do NOT do justice at all. Standing there, his tone is incredible.

I can definitely back this up. I saw Metallica live five times in 2010, four times on the rail in the mosh pit, and once in the seats. And seriously I was knocked on my arse by the soundwaves of his guitar when he belted out the main riff of The Thing that Should Not Be! It was crunchy, it was DEEP, it was full, and the midrange roared!

What was interesting too was how his guitar tone changed for the different songs the band played. I really did think he had an old Rat dirt pedal into a Marshall Plexi when they played songs from Kill 'em All, or the triple Mesa/Boogie setup with the bunch of microphones for Sad but True- it really did have that charactistic roar. He even managed to pull off his ...And Justice For All super-scooped mids sound, but with MIDS! It had that seething, searing edge but had guts to it. Well it was a fair approximation anyway. It sounded good.
It made me think about how he actually uses the amps in his rig. Did he use more Diezel VH4 for the Death Magnetic songs? More TriAxis IIC+ for the Master of Puppets/...And Justice For All songs? Did he run his VH4 on Channel 2 low gain then boost it with his Line6 DM4 dirtbox modeller for the Rat into Plexi sound for Kill 'em All?

I agree his clean tone could have been a little fuller sounding. It sounded nice, but I missed hearing that true Roland sound. A modeller really doesn't cut it.


I was disgusted when I bought & downloaded the live recordings to the concerts I attended. His guitar sounded so damn dull, bland, no CRUNCH. It was soggy. Flat, lifeless. And there was no differentiation between the differeng guitar sounds- it just was the same shithouse tone the whole time. I can't believe how the recording setup fucked up his sound! I was so pissed off I have not listened to those recordings since.

But for many many years, James' main crunch tone has been a combo of the C+ tone and a more modern heavy amp. During the 90s it was a Triaxis using a Recto sound. Once he got the VH4, he no longer used the Triaxis Recto mode.

I wasn't aware of that. But yet he still uses two TriAxis preamps in his rig? (two active, two backup). Or maybe he uses the TriAxis' Recto mode for the Load/ReLoad songs?

 

[petejt]

I've been listening to Metallica since 1985 and basically learned rhythm guitar in high school by playing along to James. One thing I've noticed since about the "Load" period, is that his galloping rhythm sound is not as defined as it used to be and I don't think it is necessarily due to just amp tone. To my ears, it almost sounds like he uses his pick differently than years ago. Instead of having a pick style like on something like "The Four Horsemen" where you could hear everything really clear, and the pick sounded like it was hitting the string dead-on, it is like he turned his pick sideways and some of the definition went away. It is like a slight scraping. I noticed it on "Death Magnetic" with some of the faster songs. Years ago on the faster stuff, his pick attack was what really stuck out. I'm sure some of it is the type of amps he is using as well though. Maybe he hit the strings harder in the past because he had to make up for lower gain on his Marshalls.

Is this what Devin Townsend was referring to when "playing heavy"? There's a video on YouTube somewhere where he describes it, and specifically references James Hetfield- where if you hold the pick sideways it tends to bounce on the string, making it sound more sludgey and 'heavier'.

 

[Skrapmetal]

I remember an old guitar magazine interview from way back in the day where he described his picking technique. He said he held his pick with three fingers (thumb fore and middle) and his middle finger rubbed the strings as he downpicked which he said added crunch to his pick attack. Described his finger being calloused and his fingernail not growing right because of it.

That was back around the Black album I think.

 

['63-Strat]

Not a fan of his VH4 tones.

 

[tonechasers]

he could ship it to my house. lol.

 

[beachbum]

I wasn't aware of that. But yet he still uses two TriAxis preamps in his rig? (two active, two backup). Or maybe he uses the TriAxis' Recto mode for the Load/ReLoad songs?

Yes, he still uses 2 Triaxis in his rig and 2 are backup, a total of 4 always on. Back in the 90s when the new Triaxis rig was built, his main crunch was ld1 red recto and ld2 yellow C+. After he added the VH4 into his rig, he no longer used the Recto mode. That preamp essentially became the dedicated clean triaxis.

Now, his main crunch is a combination of the Diezel VH4 ch3 and Triaxis LD2 yellow C+ mode. His settings actually don't change that much. He has two main settings on the Triaxis, one for crunch and one for clean. Certain songs require a slightly different clean tone (and sometimes FX), so the settings differ slightly. Same with his lead tone, the Triaxis still runs in the C+ mode, just with a slightly different low/mid/treble setting and higher gain than the main crunch preset.

 

[FortinAmps]

with the announcement that James is working with Fortin/Randall on a new amp, what you think will be the future of Diezel amps in James' rig? do you guys have any idea ? have you heard something? will he blend the Fortin/VH4 or is the VH4 being replaced by the Fortins to blend with the long time Triaxis setup?

Hey Guys,
I've been contacted about this many times, I'd like to set the record straight. There is currently no affiliation between James and Randall. We're huge fans of James and of course we'd love to see a Randall get added to his rig
Cheers,
Mike

 

[Chris6870]

My bet is it ends up for sale on TGP then when it doesn't sell... Ebay

 

[toddmogle]

when did the Pod X3 Pro come into place?? Both times i've seen his rig in person in the last few years...the JC120H was there, No Line 6 rack unit.

One thing I have noticed in recent years is that the recordings of the live shows do NOT do justice at all. Standing there, his tone is incredible. The most recent change has been his clean tone though. In prior years, he was switching in and out the roland jc120H with a pod pro. These days, the JC120H is pretty much long gone and he uses the pod X3 pro in it's place. IMO his clean tone sounds a little weird now. It got a lot thinner, even though he is still using the Triaxis to fill out the clean and thicken it up (without changing his settings used for this either).

I'm sure the Fortin/Randall ideas will try and accommodate James' wishes. While it would be cool to see something that gets his clean and crunch tones....well, who knows.

But for many many years, James' main crunch tone has been a combo of the C+ tone and a more modern heavy amp. During the 90s it was a Triaxis using a Recto sound. Once he got the VH4, he no longer used the Triaxis Recto mode.

I don't see him ditching the C+ tone. It's simply THE core of his sound. That sound we all hear in our heads. Could totally see the new Fortin Randall replacing the VH4 though.

 

[petejt]

Yes, he still uses 2 Triaxis in his rig and 2 are backup, a total of 4 always on. Back in the 90s when the new Triaxis rig was built, his main crunch was ld1 red recto and ld2 yellow C+. After he added the VH4 into his rig, he no longer used the Recto mode. That preamp essentially became the dedicated clean triaxis.

Ah.

Now, his main crunch is a combination of the Diezel VH4 ch3 and Triaxis LD2 yellow C+ mode. His settings actually don't change that much. He has two main settings on the Triaxis, one for crunch and one for clean. Certain songs require a slightly different clean tone (and sometimes FX), so the settings differ slightly. Same with his lead tone, the Triaxis still runs in the C+ mode, just with a slightly different low/mid/treble setting and higher gain than the main crunch preset.

Okay then. But then how is it that his guitar signal sounds different for the different songs? e.g. a Kill 'em All song to a Metallica (Black Album) song? Because (live) there is a clear difference.

 

[Reiep]

when did the Pod X3 Pro come into place?? Both times i've seen his rig in person in the last few years...the JC120H was there, No Line 6 rack unit.

I've seen several pictures with a Pod Pro, even with the older red one.

Here's his rack in 2010 :

The rest is here : http://www.suckerfreegear.com/?p=13

 

[beachbum]

Yeah he's carried the PODs with him for years but its only been in the past couple of years that he has switched between the jc120h and pod. Seems like the jc120H hasn't been in his rig for at least the last year.