Powering a Kemper - What are you using?

[RockyStar]

Hi, K-Roll...
I agree with many of your comments, good stuff! The Kemper is really an amazing tool for playing live, takes me 5 to 6 minutes to set up versus one hour of carrying cabinets, affects units, heads, cables, foot switches ...
The tones that I have achieved through PA systems are nothing short of incredible, compared to real amplifiers, it’s extremely close, Plus, the control of all the high quality effects in the unit, absolutely wonderful for playing gigs.

What is very frustrating and discouraging is that I bought the ‘powered’ Kemper to also sound good/realistic through 4x12 guitar cabinets and it doesn’t, it sounds and feels WAY off the amplifier profiled… Nowhere near 90%, I would say 65-70% at most.
It’s completely missing the bottom and tightness, the punch, the actual feel of the tube amplifier is not there… And before anyone says it, you can’t simply adjust the EQ…
It ain’t there, trust me.

it aggravated me so much that I got a ticket from the manufacturer to send my unit in to get checked over, Kemper paid for everything so I got to give them that, great customer support!
Unfortunately, the unit came back to me and there is no change at all, I did not expect there would be… But I had to try, Just in case I had a malfunctioning unit.

It is what it is…

I wonder if part of the problem is playing traditional 4x12 cabs? I would like to do this but wonder if that may be the root, or one of the roots to the problems we are discussing..??

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

The other guitar player in my band uses a kemper non powered with a cheap rack solid state power amp with an orange ppc412 and his tones are to die for. We're actually running this set up for about a year where i am using the yamaha FRFR which to my biggest surprise sounded like 1000x better than the friedman asm (flubby boxy tubby congested woof) and he's running his 'old school 4x12' set up and both sound like real amps in a real situation... I was really worried first about this mixed approach but we never had a better sound ever than we do now.

To me what sucks about the kemper is the fact that unless you want to profile your own amps you simply have to buy 3rd party profiles.

You buy a pack of 100 tones for 30USD and you are lucky if you can find 5-6 that really suit the live situation. (mix ready vs live ready profiles are just different). Plus the main unit controls work like shit so fine tuning a profile to me is like - in the 3 years i have never touched the b/m/t controls and I just scroll through to find a sound that I like and adjust the gain and/or definition. That's it.
Also that whole pure cab option is a joke. It sounds like a lifeless zoom unit the moment you engage it.

I have 0 experience with the powered version honestly so can't speak to that but running the profiler through a SS poweramp + cab with say a vht deliverance profile got us 99.9% close to a real D60 we had in the same room.

Maybe it's the onboard kemper power amp. I had similar experience when a friend was running an axe II through a matrix power amp. It just did not cut through and sounded like a bag of dicks honestly. Sterile, flat, digital ... it would sound loud on its own but just did not sound like a guitar.. the moment he started playing- the other guy in the band running a 60w TSL ran over him :_)

Yes, I definitely agree, it for sure has something to do with the on board power amplifier in the powered Kemper units. Like I said before, when I run either a kemper direct profile or a pre-amplifier profile through the return of one of my tube amplifiers, it gets much better… But still not quite there.
Some guys love them (powered Kpr’s) and are completely happy with them, I think that’s great!
I am totally happy with the unit for live gigs pumped through a PA system, nothing beats the Kemper! The powered unit through 4X12 cabinets (IMO) is a fail.
I would bet anybody $100,000 that I could sit blindfolded and tell the difference 100% of the time if they A/B an amplifier with the real thing, anytime I will take the challenge. Easy money

 

[rm5153]

I heard the powered Kemper was a bad decision for that exact reason so I went non powered. I want it to be as amp like as possible but am aware it is what it is as a unit itself. I am going to run it through 4x12 cab and not the powered cab. I don't mind buying something if it will make it work and be worth while sound wise but I am not going to try to polish a turd if that is what all this ends up being. I have the Boss Waza TAE and the Fryette Power Station. I have heard the Seymour Duncan 200 watt little power amp was decent with it. I have held out this long on these modelers I am almost tempted to return it when it arrives and just get more amps. The last thing I want to do is mess around trying to make this set up something it is not or can not be. Waste of time and money there so I would rather know up front.

Just use the Boss WAZA TAE. I have one and use it with my AXE FX 3 powering 2 412 cabinets with stellar results. I can get my rig to sound identical to my real Friedman BE100 DLX.. What is nice is that with the Boss TAE is that I can have my real Friedman and my AXE FX 3 connected at the same time and with just switching the input cable or with an A/B box I can toggle between the Friedman (or any tube head) and AXE 3 to do quick A/B comparisons. To me the Boss WAZA is the best investment gear-wise I have made in years.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Wow, never heard of that Boss WAZA TAE... Sounds very very cool. Very expensive though, does the Built-in 100-watt Class AB power amplifier with discrete analog design Have enough power? I mean, it’s not tube, it’s solid state, so 100 W is not a lot, But I like that it’s class AB and not class D

EDIT:
my buddy Erik, (ErikT) he blew his output transformer in his wizard MTL using this thing.

 

[4406cuda]

I am using an AXE FX III and using a Fryette LX II to power traditional cabs. The Fryette is a single space 100 watt tube power amp.

I turn off the cab simulation/Cab IRs when running through a traditional cab. I do not like running through an FRFR or PA.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Hey Cuda, I like the Fryette also

 

[4406cuda]

Hey Cuda, I like the Fryette also

I had the Powerstation before. I changed to the LX II because it takes a single space in my rack and has more power.

 

[ClintN667]

What's bad is I have an HX stomp that I love. And of we are being honest it doesn't sound as good as a kemper.

 

[GOHOINC]

Not a Kemper but I've been running my fractal fm3 through a ua interface and outputting through my jbl monitors and think it sounds great, better than into the return jack of any of my amps. At least its good enough that now I want a full axe fx iii so I can blend in another amp block and also to have more outputs so I can build a different chain to use direct, thru an effects return or in front of an amp for effects only... the best of all worlds

 

[Markmetalguitar]

I have a non-powered rack unit incoming and was wondering what you are using to power your Kempers? What works well? What doesn't work well? Use it as a pre with an amp? Say the hell with it and return it upon arrival?

I have the Kemper Stage running through a Matrix GT-1000. It's an amazing Power Amp and it was designed for modelers in mind. I have had it about 2 and 1/2 years. It's been on 2 US and a Canadian tour and never failed once. Very consistent, and very reliable.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I wonder if part of the problem is playing traditional 4x12 cabs? I would like to do this but wonder if that may be the root, or one of the roots to the problems we are discussing..??

It works fine in a live situation as a 4x12 is just a monitor for the player; the audience hears the di and it is fantastic.
This player<>amp in the room experience is not the strength of Kemper, but this is also the reason why they invented the Kemper Kab. Special speakers that interact with the profile and really improve this area. if you have a Kemper you need to get some of these speakers, they are a super upgrade.

 

[Monkey Man]

Indeed Brother Ray. By all accounts the Kab and Kone are roaring successes.

You can run 'em in FRFR mode, as your favourite vintage cones from a decent selection, pop Kones into any cab you like and even control directivity (width of dispersion beam) from the Kemper.

 

[RockyStar]

It works fine in a live situation as a 4x12 is just a monitor for the player; the audience hears the di and it is fantastic.
This player<>amp in the room experience is not the strength of Kemper, but this is also the reason why they invented the Kemper Kab. Special speakers that interact with the profile and really improve this area. if you have a Kemper you need to get some of these speakers, they are a super upgrade.

So......if the 4x12 traditional type cabs work fine live, then the Kemper Kab would be more for home use (in the room) or a smaller "monitor" than the 4x12 live....correct? Can the Kemper Kab handle the power of the various power amp options I could use with the non powered Kemper? I have heard fo the Kemper Kab and the Friedman stuff etc that is powered but I have no intelligence regarding any of that stuff. Sounds like I need to educate myself a bit. I just don't want to go buying stuff I don't need or that won't deliver what I am after in the Kemper. I can easily see it being a benefit for recording and or direct to FOH. Maybe I should just commit to using it that way and using all the amps and cabs I have for more traditional usage? Who knows...this is a process I guess I am going to have to figure out.

 

[RockyStar]

Indeed Brother Ray. By all accounts the Kab and Kone are roaring successes.

You can run 'em in FRFR mode, as your favourite vintage cones from a decent selection, pop Kones into any cab you like and even control directivity (width of dispersion beam) from the Kemper.

Look at you with all that fancy talk...lol.

 

[Monkey Man]

Look at you with all that fancy talk...lol.

Hey, that's pretty-much all I know about the subject, man.

So......if the 4x12 traditional type cabs work fine live, then the Kemper Kab would be more for home use (in the room) or a smaller "monitor" than the 4x12 live....correct?

No, it's a legit alternative for live too man.

Can the Kemper Kab handle the power of the various power amp options I could use with the non powered Kemper?

Yup. The Kabinet and Kones can even be used for bass rigs, so that should allay your power-handling concerns.

I just don't want to go buying stuff I don't need or that won't deliver what I am after in the Kemper. I can easily see it being a benefit for recording and or direct to FOH. Maybe I should just commit to using it that way and using all the amps and cabs I have for more traditional usage?

Honestly man, in theory it should cover all the bases. No need to split things like that.

I have heard fo the Kemper Kab and the Friedman stuff etc that is powered but I have no intelligence regarding any of that stuff. Sounds like I need to educate myself a bit.

This was the introductory Q&A thread. Lots of info here, so you can edumacate yourself, brother:

Kone & Kabinet Q&A

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Kemper

So......if the 4x12 traditional type cabs work fine live, then the Kemper Kab would be more for home use (in the room) or a smaller "monitor" than the 4x12 live....correct? Can the Kemper Kab handle the power of the various power amp options I could use with the non powered Kemper? I have heard fo the Kemper Kab and the Friedman stuff etc that is powered but I have no intelligence regarding any of that stuff. Sounds like I need to educate myself a bit. I just don't want to go buying stuff I don't need or that won't deliver what I am after in the Kemper. I can easily see it being a benefit for recording and or direct to FOH. Maybe I should just commit to using it that way and using all the amps and cabs I have for more traditional usage? Who knows...this is a process I guess I am going to have to figure out.

excels at recording and FOH
For me, my powered Kemper it works great on stage/practice ripping through a traditional guitar cab
But going through the Kab is so much better...I'm going to grab a 2nd one.
You could just buy 2 or 4 Kemper Kones and put them in your own cab. They are rated at 200wrms:
https://www.kemper-amps.com/kabinet-kone
They sound amazing with Kemper but be warned it sounded awful with a traditional amp when I tried it.

The Kemper power section is a clean class D. Some will tell you to put it through a tube power amp, but the profile has all of that captured and I like it with the clean power >Kab. Plus it is super streamlined and easy to transport, so I would look at some class D ss power options or even get a 3rd party mod to put in a stereo power section into your rack.

 

[harddriver]

I have the Kemper Stage running through a Matrix GT-1000. It's an amazing Power Amp and it was designed for modelers in mind. I have had it about 2 and 1/2 years. It's been on 2 US and a Canadian tour and never failed once. Very consistent, and very reliable.

Love my Matrix GT1000FX as well...it authentically reproduces the inputed signal what ever it is. I use mine in a slaved W/D/W setup and enjoy it more than old Peavey 50/50 I used to run. It punches nicely and I feel does not color the tone much at all if any. Plus they are now Made in the USA, it's a quality product. I'm more than satisfied with my purchase.

 

[RockyStar]

Hey, that's pretty-much all I know about the subject, man.

No, it's a legit alternative for live too man.

Yup. The Kabinet and Kones can even be used for bass rigs, so that should allay your power-handling concerns.

Honestly man, in theory it should cover all the bases. No need to split things like that.

This was the introductory Q&A thread. Lots of info here, so you can edumacate yourself, brother:

Kone & Kabinet Q&A

Thank you my friend. I very much appreciate your help and feedback. Very kind of you!

 

[RockyStar]

Kemper

excels at recording and FOH
For me, my powered Kemper it works great on stage/practice ripping through a traditional guitar cab
But going through the Kab is so much better...I'm going to grab a 2nd one.
You could just buy 2 or 4 Kemper Kones and put them in your own cab. They are rated at 200wrms:
https://www.kemper-amps.com/kabinet-kone
They sound amazing with Kemper but be warned it sounded awful with a traditional amp when I tried it.

The Kemper power section is a clean class D. Some will tell you to put it through a tube power amp, but the profile has all of that captured and I like it with the clean power >Kab. Plus it is super streamlined and easy to transport, so I would look at some class D ss power options or even get a 3rd party mod to put in a stereo power section into your rack.

Thanks for the info and help. I really appreciate it. Regarding the Kemper, I think would keep that rig isolated to the cluster of whatever the parts are to make it a rig. I have the non powered rack unit and foot controller as I read up and heard the frustrations with the powered version. I have the Fryette Power Station and the Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander I was thinking I could use. I was hoping to use one of those. If I have to get another power source and a KAB or KONES and fill an empty can etc then my costs are jumping up. That is why the powering product I have and my various 4x12's were what my initial thought was. The KAB isn't too expensive so maybe I should start with that and see how it goes. I have always used two 4x12 cabs with my heads so using a single 1x12 KAB is going to be very odd for me. Can you even use two KABS with the Kemper Non Powered Rack?

Anyway, I will read up on these links you guys shared and learn more and hopefully get this sorted. Again, I really appreciate the help so far. Thank you!

 

[RockyStar]

Love my Matrix GT1000FX as well...it authentically reproduces the inputed signal what ever it is. I use mine in a slaved W/D/W setup and enjoy it more than old Peavey 50/50 I used to run. It punches nicely and I feel does not color the tone much at all if any. Plus they are now Made in the USA, it's a quality product. I'm more than satisfied with my purchase.

I will look into that unit. Thanks for the heads up.