Bram576
Well-known member
Rectos are big and loose… not as tight, but they are naturally dynamic like wizards and vhts.
I love boosting them with a tc style screamer. Probably my favorite amp.
I love boosting them with a tc style screamer. Probably my favorite amp.
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xfactor23
Active member
Rumor has it it’s been retired to get updates..
MatrixClaw
Well-known member
Yep, a few months ago. Anything that retailers still have is just old stock. They haven't been able to order new ones in a while.Fuck they discontinued the MW dual? I thought it was still an option. You’d lose your ass on this reissue as there’s no way it would retain value the same. Man that makes it really hard to justify at that price given the limited features comparatively
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
Yes yes yes
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Chronic Narnia
Active member
ultimatemetalguitartones
Well-known member
Get an old Tremoverb and thank me later
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
I've tried the 420s, 415s, 445s, and finally the wafer bottom 5881s and the winner to my ear are the 5881s. But, to my ears running EL34s are best. Winged Cs IF you can find some in an acceptable range.
Not a huge jump in differences between the 6L6s though, to me in a Recto. The Marks I've had seemed to be more noticeably receptive to power tube changes.
Preamp tubes, Chinese all the way for me.
311splawndude
Well-known member
What would you recommend for 5881s and what range would I need my EL34's to be in? Thanks,
VHTStark
Well-known member
My first higher end tube amp bought brand new was a 1999 Rev G. Liked it....never really loved it. When I got a VHT/FRYETTE pittbull ultra lead a few years later, I remember thinking, "THIS is how is I wanted my Dual Rec to respond!"
At the time, I thought the Fryette absolutely ate the Rev G's lunch. Zero comparison. Now? Well, my favorite amps are Wizards, which are much more like a Fryette than a Rev G and I still love the Fryette stuff. I prefer Mark series amps overall over Recs as well.
That said, after owning a bunch of different amps over the years, including a bunch of Rev G's (bought/sold/traded in the good old days) I dig them for what they are and do well. They will never be a magical, must have amp for me, so I won't pay the prices they are at now, but for some guys a boosted Recto is the pinnacle for rock/metal; even over Wizards, Bogner's, etc.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
Rectos are almost on the opposite side of the high gain amp spectrum from the VHT / Wizard thing. While a tight amp does a lot of filtering and poweramp negative feedback shaping for you, the Recto has basically no filtering in the preamp and zero negative feedback in the poweramp. In these ways, Rectos are just about the least plug-and-play high gain amps I can think of (I love Rectos, but that's just the truth).
In most high gain preamps, a lot of lows are filtered out and the tone is generally shaped to distort in specific ways (distorting high frequencies = clear, crispy distortion. distorting low frequencies = muddy, fuzzy distortion). In the Recto’s preamp though, almost no low end is filtered away unlike in most other high gain amps, so Rectos can get unusably flubby and fuzzy with pretty much anything even approaching “high gain.” Additionally, Recto are very dynamic, uncompressed amps, though you wouldn’t think so based on their reputation. The downside to this is that it can be pretty unwieldy and unforgiving plugged straight in, but the upside is that you basically have total freedom to use any EQ or boost you can think of that fits your guitar and technique, and it’s just about guaranteed to work great with the amp. In that way, Rectos have arguably the most shapable and customizable preamps of just about any high gain amp you can get.
The Recto’s poweramp is different than most other high gain amps too, in that it doesn’t have any negative feedback in Modern Mode. This means the amp can sound incredibly open, raw, punchy, and 3D, like it’s almost jumping out of the speakers in a way I haven’t heard many other amps behave. The drawbacks of the Recto’s power section is that in Modern Mode it has a pretty loud minimum volume required for the amp to sound good (the lack of NFB means a lot of raspy treble bleed happens at super low volumes which needs to be drowned out by the real signal), and that lack of NFB also means the power section starts to break up pretty early, relative to other amps that use more negative feedback, so your usable range of volume isn’t really all that wide.
Despite how popular it is, It’s actually pretty unique as high gain amps go, but if you use the right boosts and can operate it within its optimal volume range, it can be one of the most monstrous and viscous sounding amps you’ll ever hear.
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braintheory
Well-known member
The ones he's referring to (Sovtek 5881's) I believe are really somewhere in between 5881's and 6L6GC's despite the name, but they are good tubes. I'm a big fan of real 5881's. Any of the vintage US versions are great, but I particularly like the Sylvania's and RCA's. For recent made 5881's maybe Tung-Sol or JJ. EL34's are still my overall favorites in Recto's generally
Chinese preamp tubes are the classic option most are familiar with, nothing wrong with it, but really for the best IME it would of what I've tried the French ECC83's (Dario/Miniwatt label green letters) and Tesla E83CC's and for 5U4's JAN Philips ECG's IME and thankfully those are cheap 5U4's
311splawndude
Well-known member
Thanks. Good stuff. I suppose I'd need to go NOS then on the 5881s to get the full effect? Also, didn't know the French made any tubes, interesting. Happy with my JAN Phillips 5751. I love EL34s in my Rectoveb but have not yet tried in the Dual. I was more curious on what bias rating range would I need.
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braintheory
Well-known member
You'll still get the 5881 flavor itself for sure with current made ones and see if you like it or not. The vintage US ones will just sound even better and thankfully aren't too pricy in general. I also would not say NOS as you never really know for sure with that. Just buy from reputable sellers good vintage tubes
Tubes used to made in many different countries. Most just know the popular ones in England, US, Germany and Russia like Sylvania, Mullard, Siemens, RFT and Winged C, but there were many many others and some of my all time favorites are in that latter group. I'm a huge fan of the French tubes in general. They have a very rich, growly, open sound that I love in all their tube types IME. JAN Philips 5751's are great, especially in a more US voiced amp like the Recto's. Imo some of the better US pre's. They are I believe a little lower gain with less mids. All personal preference, but I like the European tubes with more midrange aggression and gain. The Chinese ones are like that too. Pretty gainy and hairy sounding tubes
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
I would recommend finding some 90s Sovtek 5881s with the wafer bottoms....dual getters and non welded plates. For EL34s, it's hard to say as we can't bias up a recto (unless you mod it, there is a mod for that on the Boogie forum) but the way to change the bias in a recto is by changing the Rectification...hottest is of course bold/diode...least hot is spongy/tube rectification.
Those Sovteks always seem to work in Mesas re: bias range...34s are more of a crapshoot unless you buy Mesa tubes of course.
311splawndude
Well-known member
Thanks. Yeah, that was where I was going actually. I can't bias my Rectos like I bias my Splawn. As you know, Mesa has their branded tubes with the ratings matched and put into colors. I don't have that handy but you've seen it. 30mA -34 = x, 35-39 = y, 40 - 44 = z, etc. So as long as I know the bias range for a Rev G in my serial number and my plate voltage I ought to be able to order EL34's that more closely match what will work best. I didn't think about the hot for bold/diode, cooler for spongy/tube. That actually seems reverse of what I would have guessed actually
Good stuff either way, thanks.
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
It is unfortunately a crapshoot with 6L6/EL34s and a Mesa amp, unless they are Mesa tubes. In my experience, as awesome as the old but great Winged Cs are, they are all over the map in hot/cold. But, other EL34s I use are pretty consistently either cold or right in range for my amps....like Siemens 34s. I always buy used/strong and they've never come in super hot like Cs can be.Thanks. Yeah, that was where I was going actually. I can't bias my Rectos like I bias my Splawn. As you know, Mesa has their branded tubes with the ratings matched and put into colors. I don't have that handy but you've seen it. 30mA -34 = x, 35-39 = y, 40 - 44 = z, etc. So as long as know the bias range for a Rev G in my serial number and my plate voltage I ought to be able to order EL34's that more closely match what will work best. I didn't think about the hot for bold/diode, cooler for spongy/tube. That actually seems reverse of what I would have guessed actually
Good stuff either way, thanks.
You can search for older GT labelled 34s, some of those also come in at a lower ma when installed. I have to look up how they rated their tubes though.
311splawndude
Well-known member
Why can't I just read the plate voltage of the Recto and go from there?
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
Well, you'll still need to know where the tubes you put in sit at, in each setting....Don't know what you have to measure ma/mv in your amps but I have a bias tool that plugs in to a multimeter. If I can get the tubes to sit between 25ma and 40ma, I'd be fine with that set of tubes. Most amps pv is between 400-500v, so anything in that range I mentioned should be ok. In a Recto, I'd start with the amp in the lowest voltage setting with spongy/tube and see where your tubes are with a bias tool/whatever you have to check the ma of each tube. If they check in too high, say at 50ma, then I'd not use those tubes. You'd ideally be in the 20s with the low setting of spongy/tube, then you know you have some room to play with as you go higher with spongy/diode or bold/tube, etc etc
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
Oh, sorry I'm referring to non Mesa tubes lol...yes, with Mesa tubes you can calculate that number properly with your PV.
skoora
Well-known member
My stiletto, with factory bias, went down to 13mA on tube rec/spongy on drive settings and up to low 30’s on bold/doiode clean settings. It actually sounded fine on all settings but I got an adjustable bias mod done to it several years ago. Mostly out of boredom. Gotta say I haven’t even touched it or read the draw since because …..it sounds fine
