Seymour Bro we need to talk ...

[braintheory]

I didn’t find all Dimarzio’s nasal or quacky, but many of them were IME. I liked some of their single coil models more. I don’t hate them or Duncan’s, I just think for almost any given model those 2 brands make there are just better pickups out there

I think due to familiarity bias a lot of guys here just want to stay in the Duncan/Dimarzio/BKP box, Celestion box and same for other categories. I guess it’s a safe way to be, but there are other great and unique colors you’ll miss out on

As a passionate gear head that likes exploring everything it’s a bit of a bummer not see others here more hungry to try to discover more cool stuff. I used to learn about cool brands I didn’t know about on here, but that seemed to plateau almost a decade ago now. Alright rant over lol

 

[SteveGlitch]

As a passionate gear head that likes exploring everything it’s a bit of a bummer not see others here more hungry to try to discover more cool stuff. I used to learn about cool brands I didn’t know about on here, but that seemed to plateau almost a decade ago now. Alright rant over lol

I strongly disagree. I don't think anybody here is biased due to familiarity. Not sure if you've seen my youtube channel but I'm constantly getting bored of the "popular" and getting what's uncommon or different. For instance, I won't even use Strymon pedals or Tube Screamers on my boards for church playing just because I think they are overused.

While I can't speak for anyone generally or specifically, I'll start by saying that Seymour Duncan is my number one go-to but there's likely 20 different brands of pickups that I actually own - maybe more to be honest. Some sets I haven't even opened yet. As far as other guitar parts, I use everything from Vega Trem to Babicz. So there's nothing familiar about most of the hardware that comes along my desk. If I see something I like or that interests me, I order it. Simple.

For pickups, alot of what I like is from Seymour Duncan and Fender bevaudr those are the sounds I want to hear but I have everything from RailHammer to Guild S2 pickups, Lace to TV Jones, Bare Knuckle to MojoTone, Lollar to Fralin, Yamaha to Tone Rider. You get the idea.

Seymour Duncan's strats sets have always impressed me. The Steve Miller, Hendrix, Five-Two, Eric Gales, and Cradle Rock sets have impressed me in their own rights, they all sound unique and interact with effects and amps differently than I've found other brands too.

Experimenting is great as long as it's smart experimenting. I've been someone obsessed with pickups from different brands and learning about how different a alnico 2 interacts with a reverb/delay than say, an alnico 4 or 5 would.

That's just my two cents. Meh.

 

[braintheory]

I strongly disagree. I don't think anybody here is biased due to familiarity. Not sure if you've seen my youtube channel but I'm constantly getting bored of the "popular" and getting what's uncommon or different. For instance, I won't even use Strymon pedals or Tube Screamers on my boards for church playing just because I think they are overused.

While I can't speak for anyone generally or specifically, I'll start by saying that Seymour Duncan is my number one go-to but there's likely 20 different brands of pickups that I actually own - maybe more to be honest. Some sets I haven't even opened yet. As far as other guitar parts, I use everything from Vega Trem to Babicz. So there's nothing familiar about most of the hardware that comes along my desk. If I see something I like or that interests me, I order it. Simple.

For pickups, alot of what I like is from Seymour Duncan and Fender bevaudr those are the sounds I want to hear but I have everything from RailHammer to Guild S2 pickups, Lace to TV Jones, Bare Knuckle to MojoTone, Lollar to Fralin, Yamaha to Tone Rider. You get the idea.

Seymour Duncan's strats sets have always impressed me. The Steve Miller, Hendrix, Five-Two, Eric Gales, and Cradle Rock sets have impressed me in their own rights, they all sound unique and interact with effects and amps differently than I've found other brands too.

Experimenting is great as long as it's smart experimenting. I've been someone obsessed with pickups from different brands and learning about how different a alnico 2 interacts with a reverb/delay than say, an alnico 4 or 5 would.

That's just my two cents. Meh.

Great to see you like exploring like that too. I’m just saying most here don’t seem to have that type of interest. I think many find what they like within what is easily accessible to them and don’t have the drive to investigate further outside that, but it’s refreshing to see you’re not like that

I don’t use any Strymon’s or Tubescreamers either. Not because they’re overused, but just because I find there to be better stuff out there. The original Klon to me is still by far the best pedal I’ve tried, but probably way overused too (I don’t pay much attention to what others use)

With pickups I mostly just use a big variety of vintage ones now as I find most recent made ones a bit sterile/bland for me in comparison. I like a lot some Tone Specific pickups and Lundgren M6’s for modern metal, but other than that I’ve sold years ago all the rabbit hole I went into with the boutique pickups. Wish I discovered some of my favorite pickups earlier

 

[Speeddemon]

I respectfully disagree with speedemons opinion; no, it's not "immature" to just not like (the sound or whatever) a piece of gear, that's retarded.

I wasn't referring your dislike of Dimarzio as immature.

This part was what I was referring to as to sounding immature, since it comes across as a direct jab at my earlier, nuanced, well-intended advice to you (about trying other Dimarzios than just a PAF Pro or Tonezone), given that it sounds a lot like sarcastic paraphrasing:
You should definitely try one

Lots of people (that aren't me) like them

You should try a really dimarzio-y dimarzio like a tone zone or something so you can get the full quack experience

If that was not intended as such, I'll retract my mention of immaturity and we can indeed respectfully disagree.

Oh, and I actually *do* like the Larry sound.
I did a clip awhile back where I tried to cop that tone with my Engl Savage 60, boosted by a modded DOD 250 and even good ol' Helmut gave me a compliment for it.
I'd love to own one, just not the antics surrounding it.

 

[DanTravis62]

I wasn't referring your dislike of Dimarzio as immature.

This part was what I was referring to as to sounding immature, since it comes across as a direct jab at my earlier, nuanced, well-intended advice to you (about trying other Dimarzios than just a PAF Pro or Tonezone), given that it sounds a lot like sarcastic paraphrasing:
You should definitely try one

Lots of people (that aren't me) like them

You should try a really dimarzio-y dimarzio like a tone zone or something so you can get the full quack experience

If that was not intended as such, I'll retract my mention of immaturity and we can indeed respectfully disagree.

Oh, and I actually *do* like the Larry sound.
I did a clip awhile back where I tried to cop that tone with my Engl Savage 60, boosted by a modded DOD 250 and even good ol' Helmut gave me a compliment for it.
I'd love to own one, just not the antics surrounding it.

It's wasnt intended that way at all - I literally meant Chris should try one of the famous ones that have the signature quack sound because it's best to go balls in, when you're trying something out

The same way if someone wanted to "try a Marshall" you hypothetically would recommend them to try a cranked plexi or boosted 2203 because that's "the sound" and the best way to decide if it's for you or not

For me, it's one of my handful of "gear things that I absolutely cannot stand" - I'm sure everyone has them. A DiMarzio super distortion or tone zones 3-5k peak is one of those things for me - it grates on my nerves and sounds like 70s Kiss records which makes me want to jump off a cliff

 

[DanTravis62]

I dont know what instagram is, but it sounds like some soyboy shit

Ask chugg, it's where he gets his black and white video filters for his chug offs

So yeah it's soyboy shit, especially with boring modern deathcore riffsalad

 

[VonBonfire]

but I have everything from RailHammer

I almost grabbed a set of those for the LP but I saw they were foreign made and went with a Lollar instead. What set do you have and how do you like them? Any comparisons to Bill Lawrence or other pickups with a similar vibe?

Great to see you like exploring like that too. I’m just saying most here don’t seem to have that type of interest.

For me it ain't about lacking interest, it's about lacking money. I would rather be poor and gig than work a day job and have a bunch of gear. Not a shot at guys who go through the gear, just my preference. I've owned four real amps in my lifetime and 2 POS practice amps. For me the music end is a priority over the gear, but I love gear as much as the next guy. "Limited resources" my old man used to say....

A DiMarzio super distortion or tone zones 3-5k peak is one of those things for me - it grates on my nerves and sounds like 70s Kiss records which makes me want to jump off a cliff

Can the Super Distortion make me sound like the guy from Boston? I've wanted to try one of those in a blues context. Hot pickup but with the volume rolled back on the guitar through a cranked amp. Tried that with the Lollar DB in the bridge and it worked pretty good. Just wanted to try something different than another dang PAF.

 

[braintheory]

For me it ain't about lacking interest, it's about lacking money. I would rather be poor and gig than work a day job and have a bunch of gear. Not a shot at guys who go through the gear, just my preference. I've owned four real amps in my lifetime and 2 POS practice amps. For me the music end is a priority over the gear, but I love gear as much as the next guy. "Limited resources" my old man used to say....

I totally understand that, but some of the vintage pickups I love are very cheap sleepers. Part of my point also. Some of the vintage Japanese ones are really good too and I remember you've had some of those. Of course some of my favorite pickups are very expensive, but plenty of other great vintage choices for not that much. For whatever reason vintage pickups are one area with a lot of hidden/crazy under appreciated gems that smoke most stuff made today for also less money

I've found some vintage hidden gems also in the tube, speaker and guitar rabbit hole, but nothing compared to the pickup rabbit hole. I think partly because some of these pickups came in not so great vintage guitars, so the pickups themselves didn't get appreciated

 

[braintheory]

Can the Super Distortion make me sound like the guy from Boston? I've wanted to try one of those in a blues context. Hot pickup but with the volume rolled back on the guitar through a cranked amp. Tried that with the Lollar DB in the bridge and it worked pretty good. Just wanted to try something different than another dang PAF.

For that I would instead go with an older Mighty Mite or certain Bill Lawrence models. They're also very hot with some very pronounced midrange, but in imo a more pleasing, musical way than the super distortion. It's interesting how the Mighty Mites were meant to be copies of the super distortion but just sound so much better

 

[DanTravis62]

For that I would instead go with an older Mighty Mite or certain Bill Lawrence models. They're also very hot with some very pronounced midrange, but in imo a more pleasing, musical way than the super distortion. It's interesting how the Mighty Mites were meant to be copies of the super distortion but just sound so much better

FWIW I agree with Sam about the vintage bill Lawrence and mighty mite pickups being more musical and less harsh - the mighty mite is supposed to be a copy of the super distortion, and it's too close for my tastes, but it is indeed less grating on the ears

 

[DanTravis62]

The bill Lawrence stuff imo is not a copy of anything, it sounds like a bill Lawrence

It's certainly hot output wise, but much more balanced and less extreme in the EQ

 

[SteveGlitch]

I almost grabbed a set of those for the LP but I saw they were foreign made and went with a Lollar instead. What set do you have and how do you like them? Any comparisons to Bill Lawrence or other pickups with a similar vibe?

I have the Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan signature ceramic pickups in a 70's styled Shifty Tele.

I'm honestly not sure what to compare the set too, the neck sounds like a Pearly Gate maybe? It has more top end and snap than a typical humbucker.

The bridge pickup is more like the bridge pickup of a strat, snappy, compressed and sparkle.

The middle position definitely has that quack of the 2nd position on a Stratocaster


^Excuse the poor playing. It's just an example of the Fender like tones you can achieve with the set.

I love the way that the pickups interact with overdrive and that's probably because they're ceramic so top end is more aggressive but also there's some cool sustain with the set. Construction wise they are half blade and half poles. Hybrids, if you will.... and it seejs that's the new thing anyway, mixing magnets within one pickup and mix and matching those between positions to make more unique tones.


All that said, if they didn't look so good in the guitar aesthetically, I'd probably put something more CuNiFe-like in the there.

 

[SteveGlitch]

I totally understand that, but some of the vintage pickups I love are very cheap sleepers. Part of my point also. Some of the vintage Japanese ones are really good too and I remember you've had some of those. Of course some of my favorite pickups are very expensive, but plenty of other great vintage choices for not that much. For whatever reason vintage pickups are one area with a lot of hidden/crazy under appreciated gems that smoke most stuff made today for also less money

I've found some vintage hidden gems also in the tube, speaker and guitar rabbit hole, but nothing compared to the pickup rabbit hole. I think partly because some of these pickups came in not so great vintage guitars, so the pickups themselves didn't get appreciated

ToneRiders are great Alnico V pickups at a 4th of the price of a Seymour Duncan set, the issue that I've found is that they don't interact with effects quite nearly the same way that a high end set does. I'm not a pickup builder so I'm not sure why that is, magnets are weird and different magnets yield different results- even if they're the same exact types.

Some may say that's bull but that's because they may not know about the winding machines, wiring and other variables involved. Pickups are simple things with very complex procedure (at least the higher end).

Of course, I'm a church guitarist that relies heavily on straight up cleans, and time based effects as well as light overdrives so these thing I notice.

 

[VonBonfire]

I have the Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan signature ceramic pickups in a 70's styled Shifty Tele.

I'm honestly not sure what to compare the set too, the neck sounds like a Pearly Gate maybe? It has more top end and snap than a typical humbucker.

The bridge pickup is more like the bridge pickup of a strat, snappy, compressed and sparkle.

The middle position definitely has that quack of the 2nd position on a Stratocaster


^Excuse the poor playing. It's just an example of the Fender like tones you can achieve with the set.

I love the way that the pickups interact with overdrive and that's probably because they're ceramic so top end is more aggressive but also there's some cool sustain with the set. Construction wise they are half blade and half poles. Hybrids, if you will.... and it seejs that's the new thing anyway, mixing magnets within one pickup and mix and matching those between positions to make more unique tones.


All that said, if they didn't look so good in the guitar aesthetically, I'd probably put something more CuNiFe-like in the there.

Those do sound pretty stratty. Like a set of Fat 50's with a little compression added. Thanks Steve.

 

[scottosan]

NO. Any larger and more resistant is created and less tone.

The thicker the wires (AWG) the less resistance. 6000 winds of 42awg wire will have have less resistance to 6000 winds of small 43awg wire. More resistance has is not the only factor when it comes with clarity and tone. Inductance plays a huge role. The amount of winds has most direct affect on inductance. The higher inductance, the higher output and the lower the resonant peak, thus why overwound pickups tend to have more mids. If you take a pickups with 6000 winds of 42awg at 9.6k vs 5200 winds of 43awg at 10k, the 43awg at a higher resistance will be considerably cleaner and lower output while having a higher resistance.

Some big pickup makers do use the smaller wire for neck pickup, which saves them money. Specifically the company that thinks a common color that existed before they open their doors qualifies for a trademark.

Yeah now I'm confused. We need @scottosan

 

[scottosan]

I also think that the nuances of pickups is more experiences by the in room wankering. Most of those nuances are lost in the mix and the sun dried cougar with bat wings under her arms in the front row with hearing that can go over 14khz does care if you are using a JB or a Tonezone.

 

[DanTravis62]

The thicker the wires (AWG) the less resistance. 6000 winds of 42awg wire will have have less resistance to 6000 winds of small 43awg wire. More resistance has is not the only factor when it comes with clarity and tone. Inductance plays a huge role. The amount of winds has most direct affect on inductance. The higher inductance, the higher output and the lower the resonant peak, thus why overwound pickups tend to have more mids. If you take a pickups with 6000 winds of 42awg at 9.6k vs 5200 winds of 43awg at 10k, the 43awg at a higher resistance will be considerably cleaner and lower output while having a higher resistance.

Some big pickup makers do use the smaller wire for neck pickup, which saves them money. Specifically the company that thinks a common color that existed before they open their doors qualifies for a trademark.

That makes a ton of sense

 

[SteveGlitch]

I also think that the nuances of pickups is more experiences by the in room wankering. Most of those nuances are lost in the mix

Yeah, I don't think so. That may be true with a balls to wall cranked amp that has a ton of gain and compression but in my experience, those nuances are amplified with a transparent overdrive/other effects so the feel is greater felt within a live band setting. Even moreso where the guitarist gets turned up in the mix. I mean, it's not like the house speakers are adding some type of overbearing compression that lessens or destroys the integrity of the pickups and their eq values.

 

[scottosan]

Yeah, I don't think so. That may be true with a balls to wall cranked amp that has a ton of gain and compression but in my experience, those nuances are amplified with a transparent overdrive/other effects so the feel is greater felt within a live band setting. Even moreso where the guitarist gets turned up in the mix. I mean, it's not like the house speakers are adding some type of overbearing compression that lessens or destroys the integrity of the pickups and their eq values.

PAF vs JB, yes. That’s not nuance. I’m taking “nuances” between similar spec pickups, not “differences” between different genres of pickups, thus the 2 pickups I listed are going to be high output and add compression. Additionally, a mic’s cab is going to further compress and imparts its own tonal signature. In room with just player, guitar, and amp, those nuance are always going to be more noticeable than in a mix. More pickups are sold to hobbiest than to professionals, and I’ve noticed that the home player seems to be more critical and ask more questions when discussing which pickup to buy. This is my experience talking to customers.

 

[SteveGlitch]

PAF vs JB, yes. That’s not nuance. I’m taking “nuances” between similar spec pickups, not “differences” between different genes pickups, thus the 2 pickups I listed are going to be high output and add compression. Additionally, a mic’s cab is going to further compress and imparts its own tonal signature. In room with just player, guitar, and amp, those nuance are always going to be more noticeable than in a mix. More pickups are sold to hobbiest than to professionals, and I’ve noticed that the home player seems to be more critical and ask more questions when discussing which pickup to buy. This is my experience talking to customers.

Ahhh okay.. I'm not really sure about PAF vs JB specifically because I've never done an A/B comparison. I can only speak in general for ultimately similar pickups that are based off each other or having almost the same exact sounds.. it seems whenever you ask professional musicians (at least in country, worship and blues genres) or hear what they have to say in interview, they seem to say the same thing, that these nuances are even more distinguishable in live full band settings. Even moreso than playing alone in a bedroom. Nuances are never lost unless the mix is bad or you're using pedals that can kill your tone.

I'm of course talking about artists like Kingfish, Eric Gales, Josh Smith, Joe Bonamassa, Brad Paisley, etc. Maybe it depends on the experience and ears of the musicians. They are picky about the nuances in their pickups because they know the audience and sound engineers can tell the subtle differences. And like I said before, the metal genre may be completely different because they are cranked high gain ultra-compressed amps.. I'm no metal guitarist though.