Techs, explain the need for extended scale lengths.

[maddnotez]

I'm curious about this. Say your tuning VERY low, like drop G on a 7 string.

Extended scales are needed I'm guessing because the definition and clarity, perhaps even neck strain?

Could anyone explain this properly?

The what's and whys. Or is an extended scale not more proper than a 25.5" for ultra low tuning?

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I'm not tech, but the two things that can help lower a note is a thicker string and a longer scale.
To keep the tension consistant, a super thick string would be needed for deep drop tunings on a 25.5 as compared to a longer scale. Once the strings gauge goes into the high 70s and beyond, you start to lose quality of note, so longer scales are sought after for the drop crowd.

That being said, i have a 7 with 24.75 scale (dropA) and an 8 with a 25.5 scale. That's generally frowned upon, but can be done if you don't mind a bit of flop. I wouldn't mind getting a longer scale for my 8

If you're only going to dropC, don't let scale worry you too much

Now multi-scales are a whole other discussion, they look cool (never played one)

 

[maddnotez]

I use drop C and sometimes Bb on my 25.5" 6 string.

I'm talking drop G.

I did come across this, pretty amazing read.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extend ... icity.html

 

[Code001]

crankyrayhanky is right. Extended scale is only "needed" when you cannot properly intonate your guitar without running stupidly thick strings (which take away all your attack and make everything sound muddy). Anything else and it's simply preference. Born of Osiris' first album was Drop G on a 25.5'' guitar, BTW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy2MLw_JMJk

 

[snowdog]

String tension is a major reason...if you tune way down with standard strings they would be flopping in the wind and never stay in tune or intonated as mention by 001.

 

[maddnotez]

crankyrayhanky is right. Extended scale is only "needed" when you cannot properly intonate your guitar without running stupidly thick strings (which take away all your attack and make everything sound muddy). Anything else and it's simply preference. Born of Osiris' first album was Drop G on a 25.5'' guitar, BTW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy2MLw_JMJk

After reading that link I left on post #3 I can't imagine BOO's guitars were singing too well if they were in drop G on a 25.5"

 

[searching]

I think people get a little crazy about the extent of heavy gauges needed for Drop C on 6 string. 52-10 should suffice for just about any axe...No 25.5 scale required. Never had any issues with intonation or muddiness on LP style or even a 24.5"

The 52 isn't even necessary... a 46 will suffice and any player with lighter touch could realistically use 9's on top end.

 

[RJF]

Pfff..... extended scales and fat strings.... no thank you. I use 9-42's in drop C on my 25.5 guitars, and I think even on one of my 24.75 guitars also. Easy bends, easy pinch harmonics, and good chord definition, and not even close to being floppy.

 

[maddnotez]

Lol you guys keep saying Drop C.

That's standard tuning these days.

When I say low I am talking drop G specifically,

I'm trying to narrow down 7's and that link I posted goes into huge scientific depths of a need for extended scales for super low tunings.

My buddy has an RG7420 in drop G with no intonation issues at all. I'm talking about the inharmonicaties as discussed in the link. Not talking about floppy strings or intonation although tension factor does interest me.

The way I was explained was asking. Is there really a need for a grand piano? Same could be said for a guitar.

I'm looking to find out just how important these inharmonicaties are.

Yes, I know I don't HAVE to use a 28.5 inch scale to tune to G but would there be a great or even proper benefit?

 

[Code001]

The only benefit is if you like the sound. I mentioned this earlier. If you like the sound of Drop G on a 28.5'' scale, then use a guitar like that. It comes down to personal preference, and we can't really tell you what you do or do not like.

 

[maddnotez]

The only benefit is if you like the sound. I mentioned this earlier. If you like the sound of Drop G on a 28.5'' scale, then use a guitar like that. It comes down to personal preference, and we can't really tell you what you do or do not like.

Ok thanks. Sorry I missed the previous post advising preference. I guess I didn't catch what you meant.

So the only true way to know is to plug one in.

Damn GC for not having what I need.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

go to 7string.org extended section and they think 28" is bare minimum, lol
You could always go cheap to see what you like, such as Agile/Ibanez. Definitely check out Circle K strings

 

[maddnotez]

go to 7string.org extended section and they think 28" is bare minimum, lol
You could always go cheap to see what you like, such as Agile/Ibanez. Definitely check out Circle K strings

That's the first place I went. Indeed I was told get the biggest scale your hands can handle.

However you should really read the link I posted on post #3 it makes sense and it is science.

I heard an Animals as Leaders song that was tuned to Low C played on a 28" scale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLoE_Y_NiVk check it out.

Not regular C, a whole octave down from C and was blown away by the clarity and beautiful tone.

Half the track was acoustic mind you, no distortion and the low C was hit.

Using that as a comparison I could see these Ss.org guys were right in what they were saying.

I understand, once your past tension and intonation it's all preference. I just prefer clarity.

I need to start testing 27" and 28" to see what I can handle.

Agile interceptor Pro 727 or 728 is what I'm looking at.

Having trouble guessing how the neck will feel. I can handle the thickness of the neck 20mm - 21mm.

But what I'm having trouble blind guessing is the 350mm radius and thin U neck profile. (I think those are accurate)

Hard to guess without playing one, that's why I posted the ESP noob question thread because I do know the esp H207 neck fairly well

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I have an LTD h308
Great guitar, but it is in <gasp> 25.5 scale.
I sanded the back of the neck and installed a Nazgul/Sentinent combo- can't stand the EMG sizzle, so these passives were a great mod.
I bet the big scales sound great, but I don't think I could handle it- if I don;t warm up with a 6 then a 7, the h308 causes me pain for days. if I warm up to it I can play no problem.
I did try a larger scale- I think it was a signature 8 from ESP 26.5? It didn't seem as daunting as I feared. I may add in a Carvin if they ever release a Carved top version of the 8.
You must explore...and good luck fighting off the anti8 mockings that will follow

 

[rupe]

Pfff..... extended scales and fat strings.... no thank you. I use 9-42's in drop C on my 25.5 guitars, and I think even on one of my 24.75 guitars also. Easy bends, easy pinch harmonics, and good chord definition, and not even close to being floppy.

You must play with a light touch...or have bad ears . My band does a song in drop c where I play a Strat-style with 11-56 (set up and intonated for that gauge and tuning) and I can easily hear the pitch waver if I dig in hard. I'd guess we have a different idea as to what floppy is.

 

[RJF]

Pfff..... extended scales and fat strings.... no thank you. I use 9-42's in drop C on my 25.5 guitars, and I think even on one of my 24.75 guitars also. Easy bends, easy pinch harmonics, and good chord definition, and not even close to being floppy.

You must play with a light touch...or have bad ears . My band does a song in drop c where I play a Strat-style with 11-56 (set up and intonated for that gauge and tuning) and I can easily hear the pitch waver if I dig in hard. I'd guess we have a different idea as to what floppy is.

My ears work great actually. No issues here at all. Fat strings are over rated and just kill attack and definition and replace it with bass.

 

[RJF]

Lol you guys keep saying Drop C.

That's standard tuning these days.

When I say low I am talking drop G specifically,

Standard tuning is E.

Drop Z? I mean G? Spector and Ampeg make some nice stuff for that type of tuning.

 

[maddnotez]

Lol you guys keep saying Drop C.

That's standard tuning these days.

When I say low I am talking drop G specifically,

Standard tuning is E.

Yes if your 45+ and still think EVH has the greatest tone.

 

[searching]

I understand Drop C is pretty standard and a hell of a difference from Drop G... Some seven stringers call drop A AEADGBE... That's not really drop A in the sense of the whole guitar being dropped of course.

I would say the general rule of thumb is that people overstate the importance of heavy gauge and scale length to a certain degree. Like the guy above me who has trouble on a strat style with 56-11 in drop C... That should be more than plenty for the majority of players especially when you consider the Strat has a 25.5"

11's would be a bit overkill for me and would be too tense for Drop C on a 25.5. I can run 10's in Drop B very comfortably on a Jackson Dinky 25.5. Many players i see have opted to ditch the heavier top ends for less wear and tear on their digits and extra playability. I think i saw where Loomis said he had moved down to 9's.

 

[ejecta]

Lol you guys keep saying Drop C.

That's standard tuning these days.

When I say low I am talking drop G specifically,

Standard tuning is E.

Yes if your 45+ and still think EVH has the greatest tone.

I'm 44, love standard tuning, and EVH's tone is one of greatest of all time. I play in drop D and sometimes I mess with open G. I'm also in the process of refurbishing my late brother's Shecter Celloblaster that will probably be dropped pretty low tuning wise... probably tune it to A but I'll see what works best. That way I don't have to use any of my traditional guitars for low tuning. So yeah I love some really dropped tuned tones as well......

anyhow your age/EVH stereotype is fucking stupid. Just saying.