THE OCT CUTTIN CORRAL - Come Hang Out For A Whilst and talk about Retards and dumb shit…

[ShitSquatch]

. I feel it is an adult concept geared for adults.

~ss

 

[acceptance]

I don’t agree with your use of promotion. I believe tolerance and self expression are what they are pushing.

I agree that some or even most are, and I'm not claiming that most have ulterior motives. You're missing the point that I've reiterated a few times across this thread — that every crusader thinks what they're doing is "For the good," whether religious or otherwise, and they're certain they're right. You have to back away from the issue a bit to see it. Many supporters of this agenda are simply self-righteous zealots who want to impose their views on others who disagree.

The reason you and others seem to have difficulty seeing that is because you're certain you're right. I'm not arguing wrong/right, although I have my views. I'm arguing that it's essential in a pluralistic society to respect people's differences, even if it's "Bigoted" — if one aims to avoid civil conflict at least. I think the solution, in the case of libraries and schools, is real neutrality on contentious cultural issues. And I'd be arguing the same if we were talking about bible-thumping, hellfire and brimstone preaching pastors (Among others) pushing their views in the same venues, and I can pretty much guarantee you would too.

 

[VonBonfire]

I think the solution, in the case of libraries or schools, is true neutrality on these contentious cultural issues. I'd be arguing the same if we were talking about bible-thumping, hellfire and brimstone preaching pastors (Among others) pushing their views in schools and libraries, and I can pretty much guarantee you would too.

Hellfire and brimstone story hour would cause an outrage among the same people who say drag queen story hour is a positive. How about neo nazi story hour? "hey we just want to read to the kids" forget about the swastika tats and 88's, it's just about inclusion of other ways of thinking.. It would be naive to think the preacher or skinhead wasn't trying to inlfuence a young person's thinking. It would be recruitment for the church, or for a skinhead group, or for those who sell perversion as freedom. Acceptable as long as it's some sick in the head street urchin but not anyone with a non-left viewpoint. All a bunch of abominable lies.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Then why do you think drag is confusing to them?

This has noting to do with intellectual intelligence of the kids. Kids are smart and on the surface it's fairly simple to understand... A man dresses as a woman or vice versa. The reason it would be confusing to them is because they have yet to develop the emotional intelligence to fully understand. To say it another what, they would understand the what but be confused by the why.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

This has noting to do with intellectual intelligence of the kids. Kids are smart and on the surface it's fairly simple to understand... A man dresses as a woman or vice versa. The reason it would be confusing to them is because they have yet to develop the emotional intelligence to fully understand. To say it another what, they would understand the what but be confused by the why.

I think the “why” is different for every person though. I imagine people get in to drag for a multitude of different reasons.

Id be curious to see what stories are actually being read during these things. The only one I’ve seen actually documented was a bunch of dudes dressed up as frozen characters, reading and acting out Frozen. I’m 100% fine with that.

And I have read stories dealing with things like that to my daughters. Most of them I had no idea dealt with gender identity until I was well in to the book, and none of them were promoting anything besides that there are a lot of different kinds of people out there.

20 years ago I helped teach a 4th grade class.
Today my daughters elementary school friends are far and away more emotionally intelligent and aware of the world than kids their age or older were 20 years ago. It’s not even close and it’s amazing. Sort of sad because they are totally forced to grow up much quicker, but still amazing to see how they process the world around them

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I agree that some or even most are, and I'm not claiming that some or most have ulterior motives. You're missing my point that I've reiterated a few times across this thread — every crusader thinks what they're doing is "For the good," whether religious or otherwise, and they're certain they're right. You have to back away from the issue a bit to see it. Many supporters of this agenda are self-righteous zealots who want to impose their views on others who disagree.

The reason you and others seem to have difficulty seeing that is because you're certain you're right. I'm not even arguing that you're wrong at this point, I'm just saying that it's essential in a pluralistic society to respect differences, even if you think it's "Bigoted," if one aims to avoid civil conflict. I think the solution, in the case of libraries or schools, is true neutrality on these contentious cultural issues. I'd be arguing the same if we were talking about bible-thumping, hellfire and brimstone preaching pastors (Among others) pushing their views in schools and libraries, and I can pretty much guarantee you would too.

There are for sure “self righteous zealots” that push this stuff far too hard, I totally agree. But I don’t think we should let the extremes detract from a potentially positive message.

It’s understandable that it makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but honestly man, it’s the kid’s futures we need to think about. Things are changing whether we like it or not, and their world is going to be much different as adults than ours is now. Everything is going to be very “fluid” and non denominational, and I think trying to teach them that it is wrong now, will be far more damaging than letting them learn to accept it. They are going to be exposed to it no matter what.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

I think the “why” is different for every person though. I imagine people get in to drag for a multitude of different reasons.

Id be curious to see what stories are actually being read during these things. The only one I’ve seen actually documented was a bunch of dudes dressed up as frozen characters, reading and acting out Frozen. I’m 100% fine with that.

And I have read stories dealing with things like that to my daughters. Most of them I had no idea dealt with gender identity until I was well in to the book, and none of them were promoting anything besides that there are a lot of different kinds of people out there.

20 years ago I helped teach a 4th grade class.
Today my daughters elementary school friends are far and away more emotionally intelligent and aware of the world than kids their age or older were 20 years ago. It’s not even close and it’s amazing. Sort of sad because they are totally forced to grow up much quicker, but still amazing to see how they process the world around them

Your first sentence is exactly what I'm talking about. Adults have a hard time grasping the why of someone dressing in drag. You really think a child can fully grasp it? Couple that with all the other adult themes that's being exposed to well before they're emotionally ready for them. They're being FORCED to grow up much quicker; you said it yourself.

You keep talking about the theme of building kid's confidence. That's all well and good, but there are much better ways of doing that than exposing them to themes they may not be ready for. And it should be up to the parents to determine if their child is mature enough to be exposed to and understand them.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Your first sentence is exactly what I'm talking about. Adults have a hard time grasping the why of someone dressing in drag. You really think a child can fully grasp it? Couple that with all the other adult themes that's being exposed to well before they're emotionally ready for them. They're being FORCED to grow up much quicker; you said it yourself.

You keep talking about the theme of building kid's confidence. That's all well and good, but there are much better ways of doing that than exposing them to themes they may not be ready for. And it should be up to the parents to determine if their child is mature enough to be exposed to and understand them.

I don’t think a child needs to grasp why or cares to grasp why. I’m just not seeing the deeper theme in all of this. It’s drag. It’s a hobby. It’s “I’m gonna be me and I’m gonna own it”
There is no reason to look further than that. A child certainly wouldn’t. It’s an adult construct.
I’m not pulling this out of thin air, or to push my ideologies, I’m speaking as a parent who has had these discussions with my daughters. It isn’t that complicated

 

[Dave M]

So it’s okay to tolerate people you want to…but it’s also okay to NOT tolerate people who you don’t want to? Well shit…we’re all on the same page then…kumbaya mother fuckers….that’s UNITY right there….

It always is, and then it's the same response:
- attempt to rationalize
- spew and defend their own hatred and bigotry
- go on the attack. verbally and otherwise.

lather, rise, repeat
Like clockwork

 

[Dan Gleesak]

It always is, and then it's the same response:
- attempt to rationalize
- spew and defend their own hatred and bigotry
- go on the attack. verbally and otherwise.

lather, rise, repeat
Like clockwork

What bigotry have you felt towards you? What group do you believe you are a part of, or that others think you are a part of, that is receiving the “hate”.

If you don’t think it’s because you are part of a group, it’s not bigotry, it’s just that someone doesn’t like you

 

[Dave M]

What bigotry have you felt towards you? What group do you believe you are a part of, or that others think you are a part of, that is receiving the “hate”.

If you don’t think it’s because you are part of a group, it’s not bigotry, it’s just that someone doesn’t like you

It doesn't matter if it's towards me or anybody else. You know that.

 

[Ben Waylin]

It always is, and then it's the same response:
- attempt to rationalize
- spew and defend their own hatred and bigotry
- go on the attack. verbally and otherwise.

lather, rise, repeat
Like clockwork

You're damn right, Dave.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

It doesn't matter if it's towards me or anybody else. You know that.

It absolutely matters. It is what literally necessitates bigotry to be a word

 

[MadAsAHatter]

I don’t think a child needs to grasp why or cares to grasp why. I’m just not seeing the deeper theme in all of this. It’s drag. It’s a hobby. It’s “I’m gonna be me and I’m gonna own it”
There is no reason to look further than that. A child certainly wouldn’t. It’s an adult construct.
I’m not pulling this out of thin air, or to push my ideologies, I’m speaking as a parent who has had these discussions with my daughters. It isn’t that complicated

You just contradicted yourself and also reinforced my point. You initially said...

I think the “why” is different for every person though. I imagine people get in to drag for a multitude of different reasons.

Now you're saying,,, It's a hobby and about "I'm gonna be me and I'm gonna own it." So which is it?

Do you really think a child doesn't want to grasp why people do things and look for a deeper meaning. "Why" is probably the most asked question by children. It's part of their emotional development and sometimes they're not mature enough to understand the answer. Or is it just because you don't care or understand that you project that onto others?

Let me pose this question to you...
Would you be okay with your daughters attending nudist story hour where nudist fully unclothed read to children? And would you think any child attending that event wouldn't ask why are these people not wearing clothes?

 

[Dan Gleesak]

You just contradicted yourself and also reinforced my point. You initially said...

Now you're saying,,, It's a hobby and about "I'm gonna be me and I'm gonna own it." So which is it?

Do you really think a child doesn't want to grasp why people do things and look for a deeper meaning. "Why" is probably the most asked question by children. It's part of their emotional development and sometimes they're not mature enough to understand the answer. Or is it just because you don't care or understand that you project that onto others?

Let me pose this question to you...
Would you be okay with your daughters attending nudist story hour where nudist fully unclothed read to children? And would you think any child attending that event wouldn't ask why are these people not wearing clothes?

No I would not want my child to attend a nudist story hour. I’m sure kids would ask why they are naked, and I also feel it would be simple answer why.

Same with drag. Sure a kid would ask why a man was dressed like a woman, but it’s also easy to answer, to a child, why a man is dressed like a woman.

We don’t need to go in individual life stories. The answer is that they have fun doing it and makes them happy. That’s it. He’s dressed up like Marylyn Monroe the same reason you dress up like Elsa, because it’s fun.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

No I would not want my child to attend a nudist story hour. I’m sure kids would ask why they are naked, and I also feel it would be simple answer why.

Same with drag. Sure a kid would ask why a man was dressed like a woman, but it’s also easy to answer, to a child, why a man is dressed like a woman.

We don’t need to go in individual life stories. The answer is that they have fun doing it and makes them happy. That’s it. He’s dressed up like Marylyn Monroe the same reason you dress up like Elsa, because it’s fun.

Then it appears you have a double standard. Both drag story time and nudist story time follow pretty much the exact same theme. It's people reading to children, they have nothing to do with sex or indoctrination, and it exposes them to different aspects of life and in turn tolerance. And according to you are pretty easy to explain to a child. Nudists like to play reverse dress up and it makes them happy. That's it.

So why is drag story time okay and nudist story time not?

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Then it appears you have a double standard. Both drag story time and nudist story time follow pretty much the exact same theme. It's people reading to children, they have nothing to do with sex or indoctrination, and it exposes them to different aspects of life and in turn tolerance. And according to you are pretty easy to explain to a child. Nudists like to play reverse dress up and it makes them happy. That's it.

So why is drag story time okay and nudist story time not?

Well I don’t know of any public spaces that allow nudity, do you? Where would this “nudist story time” take place?

 

[acceptance]

It's people reading to children, they have nothing to do with sex or indoctrination

Well, not sure that's true but you're making a good point.

Well I don’t know of any public spaces that allow nudity, do you? Where would this “nudist story time” take place?

C'mon man, you could have said the same thing 10 or 15 years ago, "Where do they allow performers in drag to read to little kids?"

 

[stackedCabs]

Well I don’t know of any public spaces that allow nudity, do you? Where would this “nudist story time” take place?

Was stalking for a while but just made an account to tell you that you're a fucking child yourself. I feel bad for any child having parents like you.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Was stalking for a while but just made an account to tell you that you're a fucking child yourself. I feel bad for any child having parents like you.

That’s weird