Tourmaster or Renegade???

[Roddy]

RobC....Personally, I'd just get the head.....I don't think that the difference between 2/12's and 3/12's will be that great...and the weight factor between the head and the combo is a big one...that's what I would do...

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

I'm with Roddy. Get the head and 2 X 12 cab. A bit of trouble to lug around, but that's the one that blew me away.

 

[fester2000]

I'll jump on the bandwagon and recommend the head as well. That's the choice I made and I'm very, very pleased with it.

 

[Guitarvc]

I absolutely loved the Renegade head and combo and could not stop playing when I checked it out at a GC. Played on it for over an hour at least.

I've plugged into 4 different Tourmasters, and each time I am dissappointed I've tried dialing them in to get the sound I'm after but it's just not in there.

HOWEVER, that's just my opinion. It seems to be a great amp with tons of features, but I would choose the Renegade in a heartbeat.
RENEGADE

+1 The tourmaster left me cold, but th renegade seems to have a more pure tone. Also, The amp behaves like the Mod 50, with a slightly less tonal complexity. I like the Renegade

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

You know, I was playing the 1 X 12 Renegade combo last night with some Tele's and, while it's a great amp, I couldn't say that it sounded phenomenally better than my Tourmaster. Of course, it is an apples to oranges comparison. The Renegade that really got me going was the head/TM 2 X 12 cab combo, and I wasn't using my own guitars. I don't own a Tele, so I have never heard a Tele through a Tourmaster. Still, I wouldn't dis the Tourmaster too much.

 

[Buckeyedog]

Guys, check out this Thumpster thread and the Renegade vids.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=632465

Oh, and Len.......man, you gotta quit trying to "jusify" your love for the Tourmaster!! Man, it's still Bruce's work and I'm sure it's a great amp that I haven't had the pleasure to play through.

You own it and you love it!! Rock out and enjoy man.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

My feewings have been hurt- I'm feeling defensive in this thread!

 

[Roddy]

I have owned a Tourmaster for over a year....I've tried out a few Renegades.....The Renegade lead channel is a little more refined than the Tourmaster's ch4, however, having 4 great sounding channels as opposed to 2 for me is a no brainer...The Tourmaster wins hands down...

 

[golfnguitarz]

I have been watching this thread intently for a while and hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. First off, I will go and play both of these eventually, but the last time I was in GC, they only had the TM combo hooked up and ready to go and I had run outa time checking out the Mesas. Anyway, there is lots to love about both of these amps - which is a good thing. Ok, the questions:
1) Does the tube blend on the Renegade really make an audible difference?
2) TM - I have read almost everything I can find on this amp and to get a head and 2x12 cab is stretching my original budget, but... I forget which review it was, but it compared channel 2 to a "Vox'ish" sound. That really got my attention. Can anyone elaborate on this? I also remember someone in this thread saying that channel 3 was sorta Marshall sounding. If I were living in fantasy land and could have an amp (let's exclude discussion of the modules here) with all the sounds I wanted, it would be
- Vox clean
- Fender or Mesa clean
- Marshall overdrive/crunch
- Mesa'ish modern high gain
3) Given #2, can both of these amps sorta come close. or how would you describe the sounds of the channels in these amps?

I currently have a Marshall TSL602 and while I love the overdrive channel, the amp is sorta a one trick pony. Thanks for all the wonderful input here.

 

[Resonant Alien]

I haven't played a TM, so I can only comment on your first question - Yes, the Tube Mix makes an audible difference. How much of a difference it makes obviously depends on how different the two sets of tubes you use are. At one point I had TAD 6L6WGC in one slot and GT E34LS in the other, and blending the two together was very different than running either set of tubes at 100%. Even with the TS5881s and JJ KT66s that I have now, there is a definite difference. If you had two sets of EL34s in both sets of sockets though, then you aren't going to hear much difference.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

The tube mix on the Renegade really does audibly vary the sound- but it also can vary the volume output. Probably not a problem recording but might be an issue live.

The Tourmaster can definitely handle those four types of sounds. Channels 2 and three are my faves. Two can really have some shimmer and snap, and three is just a solid rock overdrive. I had a two channel Mesa rectifier combo and I find the Tourmaster combo a significant step up.

I have definitely gotten some Marshall tones out of my Tourmaster. Use the suggested pre-sets in the manual- Some of them are directly Marshall based.

The Renegade head through the TM 2 X 12 cab sounded fabulous. It really depends on what makes your heart go pitter patter.

 

[Resonant Alien]

It really depends on what makes your heart go pitter patter.

And that's really what it all comes down to. Let's face it - Bruce doesn't make a bad amp. Just like John Suhr, Terry McInturff and Tom Anderson, don't make bad guitars Once you are shopping in the "boutique" gear market (whatever that really means), there is no more "good" and "bad", there is only "different". I know it sounds lame and cliche, but all of this stuff is nearly 100% subjective. You really just have to go play this stuff for yourself to figure it out. It's not like we're comparing a Krankenstein to a MOD50 here

Truth is, if the E2 wasn't an imminent option, I would have been very tempted by the TM instead of the Renegade, especially if the TM truly does have a vox-y channel in it. The only thing that could make the Renegade more perfect for me is if it were 3 channels - the existing 2 plus a vox-ish channel. That would be absolutely perfect for me. BUT, with the E2 just around the corner, I'm pretty much gonna get that in spades.

 

[golfnguitarz]

Cool!
So I got turned on to Eggy via the Randall Rm4 that my friend lent me for a test drive (good friend indeed). And it is cool(Blackface, Plexi, TopBoost, Recto). But he has a whole midi setup to work it live and I know in my heart, I know I just don't wanna mess with all that. "If" I could coax most of that outa the TM, then that is where I'll go. If not, then I'll settle for the Renegade and make the most out of it - which is probably alot judging from the features.

Mostly I play Classic Rock type stuff, but still wanna get off on some Foo Fighters, Chevelle modern high gain sounds once in a while. The clean channel on my Marshall doesn't do much for me, but the cranked overdrive - definitely a sound I like, but sometimes I think it sounds dated. Anyway, I appreciate the input.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

Channel four on the Tourmaster is modern high gain. The cleans on the Tourmaster defintely beat the Marshall, particularly channel 2, although as I said it can emulate those sounds. Again, look at the settings in the TM manual- some of those are really good.

 

[diezelboy]

Haven't tried the TM, but
I've got the 1x12 Renegade combo and all I can say is that I'm floored by this package! I've had TONS of amps: Diezels, Bogners, VHT, old Fenders, Marshall JCM 800, JVM, Mesas and I could go on... This thing is a hellavah kick-ass amp! I upgraded to Winged C power tubes, and tung sol preamps, but that's just my preference.
- The clean is just flooring - you can do twin clean or blues deluxe clean - just adjust the gain/overhead u need from the knobs - I can't believe it!
- The drive channel: A super well balanace between: smooth and punchy tones!

The TUBE MIX feature is PRICELESS - u want dark type gain go to 6L6 - You want Marshall go to more EL34! This is the best invention anybody made in the amp world! I mean sure Mesa has the RoadKing (which I owned) with tube mixing but not implemented with a continuos type of pot.

U know what: no matter how many channels my previous amps had, I realized that live I've only really used 2: clean and dirt, with the odd volume boost for solos - I really don't see why ppl would want 4 channels unless you cover a LOT of ground in one live session and you can't turn knobs on the spot.

If you play AC/DC type rock - you're not all of the sudden switch to play PANTERA style? Or if you play funk/reggae - you're not gonna go into Napalm Death in a real live situation.
For a cover band ? I could see the benefit, but that's why they make pedals these days.

But maybe that's just me..
anyhoo - my 2 cents

 

[Roddy]

I have been watching this thread intently for a while and hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. First off, I will go and play both of these eventually, but the last time I was in GC, they only had the TM combo hooked up and ready to go and I had run outa time checking out the Mesas. Anyway, there is lots to love about both of these amps - which is a good thing. Ok, the questions:
1) Does the tube blend on the Renegade really make an audible difference?
2) TM - I have read almost everything I can find on this amp and to get a head and 2x12 cab is stretching my original budget, but... I forget which review it was, but it compared channel 2 to a "Vox'ish" sound. That really got my attention. Can anyone elaborate on this? I also remember someone in this thread saying that channel 3 was sorta Marshall sounding. If I were living in fantasy land and could have an amp (let's exclude discussion of the modules here) with all the sounds I wanted, it would be
- Vox clean
- Fender or Mesa clean
- Marshall overdrive/crunch
- Mesa'ish modern high gain
3) Given #2, can both of these amps sorta come close. or how would you describe the sounds of the channels in these amps?

I currently have a Marshall TSL602 and while I love the overdrive channel, the amp is sorta a one trick pony. Thanks for all the wonderful input here.

Here's my opinion of my Tourmaster's 4 channels...Ch1...I set it to modern., and it's a great blackface Fender sound...
Ch2 with the mids up some is a killer Deluxe tone...with less mids it's more Voxy
Ch3 is a Killer Marshall Plexi to mild hot rodded Marshall tones....I've owned many real ones, and with Scumback Speakrs, this channel sounds just as good
Ch4 is Egnater EG4....smooth liquid sustainy Marshally, Fat ect....

 

[sea]

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a Tourmaster 4100. I just ordered a used Egnater 2X12 empty cab from Eric (thanks man) and getting ready to load it with some Scumbacks (an M75 & H75).

I know a lot of people like the Renegade for all the cool reasons. For me, I'm looking for an amp JUST for the studio (not gigging out) to get the most variety of tones depending on what style of music I'm recording.

I'll also be direct recording as well as micing the cab. Does the Renegade have better cab sim and sound for direct recording out than the TM? If not, that's not a deal breaker since I am planning on going direct out through a THD Hot Plate (running at full so no tone loss from what I have read) and into my daw using some cab impulses like the Waves GTR 3 stuff etc.

Also down the road, I'm looking at picking up something like the PDI-03 Speaker Simulator or even one daw one of the Two Note units.

So with all that being said, I guess my question would be 1. Save the $400 and go with a Renegade or spend the $400 and get an amp that (from what I have heard) can cover all the basis once you tweak it or... 2. Get the the Renegade but lose some tonal options (hmmmm). Perhaps get both eh?

Also, let's don't forget upgrading tubes in the TM 4100. I know Len has done a lot of tube swapping in his TM and loves it.

If I ever gig out down the road then of course I'd get some very portable that could cop the sound. Maybe even an Axe FX one day and be done with it. I also have a Roland VG-99 to thrown in the mix when desired as well.

So for studio and not lugging around... which one? I know Eric said you can use any power tube with the Renegade and since I'm not gigging live, if I can dial in the tones with the Renegade the same way you can with the Tourmaster, then that would be find as well.

Jamie

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

I think for the studio the Tourmaster has it, although I have asked myself: "If the Renegade had been available when I was buying would I have gotten it?" I don't know, but I think I still would have gone with the Tourmaster.

I do find the Tourmaster line out noisy, but I actually haven't used it much, and I do remember getting decent results with a noise gate. I also think I only tried it on channel 4, which is a noisier channel anyway. I am not sure how the line out would be on the other channels.

For sheer "bang for the buck" flexibility I don't think you can beat the the Tourmaster.

 

[sea]

I was wondering... do you think the Renegade can get the same tones that the Tourmaster can, or are they 2 completely different beast?

Jamie

 

[aeroic]

I was wondering... do you think the Renegade can get the same tones that the Tourmaster can, or are they 2 completely different beast?

Jamie

two different beasts....but can get similar tones.

If you want ultimate versatility, the Modular series is your best bet. That way you can hand pick exactly what you want. You can get Fender Twin, Bassman, Deluxe tones...get dumbleish / Mesa Mark I tones (COD module)....get dark warm marshally tones (EG34)...get more hot-rodded marshall tones (SL2(X))....get Soldano SLO100 types of tones (EG5)...and Vox AC30 tones (VX)...and Mesa Recto type tones (E-Rect).

That's the best way to go IMHO. If you are wanting to do stuff in the studio. The Renegade gets you Bassman style clean tones...and a mixture of EG34 / SL2 type Marshall tones. The Tourmaster is a similar take to the TOL100 type of amps...and has a darker, smoother type of vibe.

What neither of these gets you is the ability to get other tones like EG5, E-rect, VX, COD types of tones. You can also look at the E2 preamp coming out later.

I personally would get a Renegade...and get an E2 later on if I were you, if studio work is what you are looking to do.

Eric