Trump elected: what happens next?

[Floyd Eye]

Also “ not believe” might be a bit too strong a description. I might believe. I definitely believe in something.

 

[VonBonfire]

I understand there are people who believe the Israelis are, or were, gods chosen people. Which is likely the root of the Muslims hatred toward them. I personally don’t believe they are. Those Israelites ceased to exist thousands of years ago.

So then in your mind, what gives them the right to the land? Just force of arms? You were talking about the Sioux. Imagine them setting up a nation again in the black hills region and dominating the people already living there. Would might make right in your mind? As I said, no judgments. I've racked my brain on this topic when I studied Judaism and was attending a messianic synagogue many years ago. I never did come across a satisfactory answer so I'd rather listen to others speak their opinions.

 

[Floyd Eye]

So then in your mind, what gives them the right to the land? Just force of arms? You were talking about the Sioux. Imagine them setting up a nation again in the black hills region and dominating the people already living there. Would might make right in your mind? As I said, no judgments. I've racked my brain on this topic when I studied Judaism and was attending a messianic synagogue many years ago. I never did come across a satisfactory answer so I'd rather listen to others speak their opinions.

If I had a Time Machine I would go back to 1840 and arm the plains Indians with M4s. The Lakota will not get their land back because they don’t have the power to take it back, simple as that. I can argue that the US never honored their treaty or actually paid them for the land as they were supposed to do, but at this point the government actually offered to pay them and they refused, they want the land. They won’t get it.

So yeah. If Muslims want that land back they’re gonna have to take it like they did the first time. Don’t have the power ? Too fuckin bad I guess.

You notice none of the Arab nations claiming solidarity with the poor “ Palestinians “ are willing to take any of them in right ? Wonder why ?

 

[rsm]

The Israelis have been literally fighting to exist since the minute the nation was created.

that's what happens if you leave your enemies alive after they promised to wipe you from the face of the earth; i.e., commit genocide against you.

I don't condone genocide, but if it's my people vs someone else's people; I'll make exceptions.

History if full of peoples, nations and empires that no longer exist / extinct. It's human nature; and as a species we haven't transcended beyond that.

 

[VonBonfire]

So yeah. If Muslims want that land back they’re gonna have to take it like they did the first time. Don’t have the power ? Too fuckin bad I guess.

So then you aren't really criticizing the muslims for trying? You just side with Israel because they do have force of arms and/or appear to have the moral high ground?

I have heard various reasons they won't take Palestinians in. They are trouble makers and such are the reasons I usually get. My feeling is most Muslim nations aren't as welcoming as western nations usually are. And I would guess many of them won't leave because the land is akin to your Missouri. Most people don't want to leave what they see as home.

 

[VonBonfire]

History if full of peoples, nations and empires that no longer exist / extinct. It's human nature; and as a species we haven't transcended beyond that.

I don't know of a nation that had no country of it's own for 2000 years that were able to maintain a national and cultural identity of a sort. I do find that unique among Jewish people.

 

[Floyd Eye]

that's what happens if you leave your enemies alive after they promised to wipe you from the face of the earth; i.e., commit genocide against you.

Which is what happens when every time you try to defend yourself the world’s “super powers”, force you to respond “proportionately”.

 

[Floyd Eye]

So then you aren't really criticizing the muslims for trying? You just side with Israel because they do have force of arms and/or appear to have the moral high ground?

I have heard various reasons they won't take Palestinians in. They are trouble makers and such are the reasons I usually get. My feeling is most Muslim nations aren't as welcoming as western nations usually are. And I would guess many of them won't leave because the land is akin to your Missouri. Most people don't want to leave what they see as home.

My criticism of the Muslims is they don’t even try to fight the Israelis. They hide among civilian populations and fire missiles then duck back inside. Then cry about the collateral damage. Terrorism is not fighting.

 

[VonBonfire]

My criticism of the Muslims is they don’t even try to fight the Israelis. They hide among civilian populations and fire missiles then duck back inside. Then cry about the collateral damage. Terrorism is not fighting.

Fair enough. I too find it distasteful but that is the nature of conducting asymmetric war, if you can call it that. Let's face it, if they were to fight traditional war they'd be dogmeat. I'll leave it at that, I wanna play some guitar. Always nice talking.

 

[rsm]

Alliances always seem to create bigger conflicts. Let the middle east sort itself out themselves without us.

Hate to say it, but unless all sides in the ME decide to coexist, the conflict won't end until some no longer exist in any meaningful numbers.

 

[acceptance]

Those videos and shit you post are not evidence dude.

Of course it is, but you're free to disregard it. You have military personnel themselves telling you they were ordered to shoot and didn't know who they were shooting at. You disregard that even prior to October 7 more Palestinian kids had been killed in Gaza than in previous years, let alone the rest of the history of the last 76 years. You think you know what happened on October 7. You are totally uniformed.

 

[acceptance]

it’s pretty fucking rich to constantly rip on them when they were the ones who were attacked.

History always starts when Israel is attacked, just minding their own business

 

[acceptance]

According to you they’re running this country. Which is ludicrous

Again you have no clue what you're taking about. Even Trump admits it. You have absolutely no conception of the power of the Israel lobby, and the intertwined Zionist/neocon agenda.

 

[acceptance]

I understand there are people who believe the Israelis are, or were, gods chosen people. Which is likely the root of the Muslims hatred toward them.

...Nothing whatsoever to do with the forming of the Jewish ethnic state and the expulsion of 750,000 Arabs.

 

[acceptance]

My criticism of the Muslims is they don’t even try to fight the Israelis. They hide among civilian populations and fire missiles then duck back inside. Then cry about the collateral damage. Terrorism is not fighting.

Clearly you don't know the history of the formation of the state of Israel. You have Menachim Begin boasting of being the father of terrorism in the whole world. Israel was founded in terrorism. You're totally hypocritical.

 

[acceptance]

have heard various reasons they won't take Palestinians in. They are trouble makers and such are the reasons I usually get. My feeling is most Muslim nations aren't as welcoming as western nations usually are. And I would guess many of them won't leave because the land is akin to your Missouri. Most people don't want to leave what they see as home.

Most all the countries in the area have their own problems. Assuming 2.5 million refugees is simply not practical. Why would anyone want to take on a problem to ease the difficulty of the group that created the problem? Not only that, but even if Egypt for example took them in, then they would become a military target, just like Lebanon is. The Palestinians aren't gonna quit.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Most all the countries in the area have their own problems. Assuming 2.5 million refugees is simply not practical. Why would anyone want to take on a problem to ease the difficulty of the group that created the problem? Not only that, but even if Egypt for example took them in, then they would become a military target, just like Lebanon is. The Palestinians aren't gonna quit.

They will eventually. 45,000 of them already have.

 

[acceptance]

They will eventually. 45,000 of them already have.

Yep, that's the logic of genocide — although I'm glad not to be the one promoting it! And there are probably over 200,000 Palestinians killed at this point, either directly or indirectly. But what's missing in your calculation is that Israel is not going to get away with killing 2.5 million Palestinians. And even if they did, there are another 2-300 million arabs that they're probably going to have to eliminate as well and almost 2 billion muslims. How do you think that will work? ...Think our sons and daughters should go fight and die for Israel?

 

[Floyd Eye]

Yep, that's the logic of genocide — although I'm glad not to be the one promoting it! And there are probably over 200,000 Palestinians killed at this point, either directly or indirectly. But what's missing in your calculation is that Israel is not going to get away with killing 2.5 million Palestinians. And even if they did, there are another 2-300 million arabs that they're probably going to have to eliminate as well and almost 2 billion muslims. How do you think that will work? ...Think our sons and daughters should go fight and die for Israel?

You sound just like AOC and Rashida Tlaib.

Clearly you are miscalculating the number of Arabs willing to fight for Hamas and Hezbollah. Besides, at some point Iran is going down. And when that happens watch and see how Israel and the Palestinians magically start getting along.

 

[acceptance]

Clearly you are miscalculating the number of Arabs willing to fight for Hamas and Hezbollah. Besides, at some point Iran is going down. And when that happens watch and see how Israel and the Palestinians magically start getting along.

I guess we'll have to wait and see but I don't think Iran is "Going down" any more than Russia or China is. You sound as if you formed your opinions of US power and other country's lack thereof in the early 2000's and haven't updated since. It's a different world. And why would you even suggest that the US should expend our resources, our tax dollars and children to go fight and die for another country? It's crazy, especially given that you identify as a conservative.