Van Halen Panama tone

  • Thread starter Thread starter RedPlated
  • Start date Start date
Damn. Those are super cool photos. That pic of the input side must be after Van Weelden? All those new looking pink wires. That's not factory. I remember Dave talking about the Teflon wire.

So that pot could of been a variable resistor between the diodes and ground. That would make sense if there were diodes. Add enough resistance and the diodes could be essentially out of the circuit, or anywhere in between. Would also tame the volume quite a bit with the diodes in circuit.

That pot is really far to the left on the rear panel now that I look at it. Not really close to v2. It's perfectly inline with the 4th preamp tube hole.
 
Here's another interesting pic. The Marshall PA head is supposedly what ED use to reamp 12301 on VH1. Maybe... but those live clips on the 78 tour where ED is using about 5 Fender Bandmasters and it was VH1 spot on IMHO. That's Pat Badger from Extreme visiting the 5150 studio.
 

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Here's how I installed my Jose master on my 68
 

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Kapo_Polenton said:
I'm assuming those orange drops would give that tone a little more aggressive bite..
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I'm guessing those are Polyester Orange Drops, I think they are a little more Hi-Fi, cleaner sounding possibly like the Polyester Philips Orange drops that Soldano used in the early SLO's.
 
I tried that circuit without the 1 mg pot. At pin 8 V2, I attached a 10K, .22uF and two 20 volt zeners, on/off switch to ground and didn't notice anything, even with the volume cranked with attenuator.
my amp is 100 Superlead.

here's a pic of my crude test set-up fro testing.
I didn't take a pic. while it was in my amp.
 

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There should be a 1 Meg resistor in parallel to the diodes to ground. You don’t need it with a Jose master because you run the diodes across the volume pot.
 
So I have a 50K pot to try instead of the 25k stock for the Middle pot. Should I try that as well? That's what was in Ed's, correct?
 
Yes that's what was in 12031 per Dave Friedman. It's a very easy swap and makes a pretty significant difference, in my opinion. The knob half way up on a 50k will be the same mids as a 25k on 10. And then you just add midrange from there.

I've put 50k's in several amps but always go back to the 25k. My 69' super lead factory mid pot reads 30k. I wish someone made a 30 or 35K linear pot. Just about the perfect value.
 
Here’s diodes on a switch on a cathode follower Marshall with standard MV. This has 20v diodes on one side and transistors on the other. 3 way switch. Off, diode or transistor. Those are two .1 caps in parallel for .22 total. The 1 Meg parallels both the diodes and transistors.

cBITEUUl.jpg
 
RedPlated said:
Here’s diodes on a switch on a cathode follower Marshall with standard MV. This has 20v diodes on one side and transistors on the other. 3 way switch. Off, diode or transistor. Those are two .1 caps in parallel for .22 total. The 1 Meg parallels both the diodes and transistors.

cBITEUUl.jpg
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So essentially you retained the standard JCM800 Pre-PI master volume setup on your JCM800...

I have a 2203 Jose combo amp that has both the Jose and the standard JCM800 Master in it, I tend to run the JCM master on about 8 and then use the Jose to taste.
 
That amp looks nothing like that now. But yes, that’s the way it was setup back a while ago. It’s a cool mod to an otherwise stock 800 if you don’t want to get invasive.
 
matttornado said:
So I have a 50K pot to try instead of the 25k stock for the Middle pot. Should I try that as well? That's what was in Ed's, correct?
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You really have to try it and see if you like it. I've heard plenty of 68-70 Marshall's with 25-30K mid pots that cop the EVH tone no problem, just as Redplated's 69 does so it's not essential, it all depends on how far down the rabbit hole you wish to venture.:D

Both my 68 and 69 plexi amp builds have the 50K mid pot if you want to listen to some clip I posted earlier in this thread. I cant' remember but I think my 72 is stock and it cops Ed quite well.

Is it a cool aspect of Ed tone lore? I think so... I like it... and if you prefer the 25K like Redplated says only turn it half way up is a 25K pot dimedor swap it back into place, no harm no foul.:2thumbsup:
 
RedPlated said:
Here’s diodes on a switch on a cathode follower Marshall with standard MV. This has 20v diodes on one side and transistors on the other. 3 way switch. Off, diode or transistor. Those are two .1 caps in parallel for .22 total. The 1 Meg parallels both the diodes and transistors.

cBITEUUl.jpg
Click to expand...
thanks for pic! i can’t wait to to try this but i’ll be very busy the next week or two. maybe i’ll stay up late one night with some coffee and give it ago anyway. lol
 
Doesn't the 50k mid pot 'lift' the entire stack more? I don't think a 50k-L mid pot halfway up is the same as a 25k-L pot dimed there. You guys have more experience with the tone difference (I have not tried it since I learned about it) but schematically/technically it's not the same. In a Fender tonestack it would be the same but not a Marshall.
 
Yeah there is apparently some effect to the bass pot based on the resistance of the mid. You'd have to chart it on a frequency analyzer. All I know is that the mids are much more in your face with the 50k. It's a very obvious change.

A 50k linear is 25k halfway, so same as 25K pot on 10. I know what you're saying, that the 50k overall resistance in the circuit changes the response of the tone stack. Again, you can plot it on a frequency analyzer. But the basic concept is bigger pot, more mids.
 
RedPlated said:
Yeah there is apparently some effect to the bass pot based on the resistance of the mid. You'd have to chart it on a frequency analyzer. All I know is that the mids are much more in your face with the 50k. It's a very obvious change.

A 50k linear is 25k halfway, so same as 25K pot on 10. I know what you're saying, that the 50k overall resistance in the circuit changes the response of the tone stack. Again, you can plot it on a frequency analyzer. But the basic concept is bigger pot, more mids.
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I just ran it thru the Duncan Tone Stack calculator and there is more gain, more bass, and more available mids on tap. And when you turn the 50k pot down such that the mids/highs are the same as 25k, there is more bass. But you can tweek the bass to make the curves almost exactly superimpose.

I'm building a '69 SL and was going to use a 50k pot. But that is inspired more from a video where DF said a 50k mid pot can help prevent a "high crashing sound" when cranked. I can always put a 100k resistor in parallel to make it 33k.
 
SpiderWars said:
I just ran it thru the Duncan Tone Stack calculator and there is more gain, more bass, and more available mids on tap. And when you turn the 50k pot down such that the mids/highs are the same as 25k, there is more bass. But you can tweek the bass to make the curves almost exactly superimpose.

I'm building a '69 SL and was going to use a 50k pot. But that is inspired more from a video where DF said a 50k mid pot can help prevent a "high crashing sound" when cranked. I can always put a 100k resistor in parallel to make it 33k.
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The old blocking distortion cymbal crashing effect usually while Dimed.

You'll be good with the 50K Spiderwars...:thumbsup: as Mikey says..." TRY IT YOU"LL LIKE IT"
 
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