Van Halen Panama tone

[harddriver]

G12h30's def have the sizzle. I regret selling mine years ago for peanuts to make way for some Weber's. I always thought the 12H30's did amazing cleans too. For the VH tone, ultimately it was Ed himself who made that tone. We say it over and over but everybody is very close and in the ballpark so I get the tone chase. It's fun.

It was a ton of fun going down each and every rabbit hole regarding Ed lore and I enjoyed every frustrating minute of it. I have settled into my conclusions and what I like and how to get the tone. I smile every time I fire up the ole 68 plexi W/D/W system.

 

[Rdodson]

First record was MM1300 in the Frank, and possibly in the Destroyer -- though maybe still the Super 70s (which sounds similar in that application).

The unequal coil thing was much later - and pretty evident. You can hear the difference on boots and on the records. Fair Warning...anything with a bar (Franky) has a Telecaster-on-steroids tone, the stuff without a bar (Push Comes To Shove solo, for instance) is '59 Les Paul. Much fatter.

I think this unintentional coil tap thing partially led to the higher gain quest Ed went on.

Now, the original Seth Lover PAFs had pretty random coil windings, especially later as production increased. But nothing RADICALLY different unless there was a short. This would be extremely rare in a covered pickup but happens in an uncovered one. There is a sweet spot with slightly different coil windings where you get some very cool "air" in the tone, especially when the pickup is unpotted and the cover is still on. There is a certain slightly microphonic thing happening. I don't think that is what most chase here...most want that VH1 sound. Go get a Mighty Mite or a Dimarzio Super Distortion and be done with it. Don't believe me? Watch Pete Thorn's famous SL68 vid. But if you want that "Girl Gone Bad" tone, get a good lower dc resistance PAF clone with an A2 magnet and slightly asymmetric coils. For the Panama tone, those here looking at the '59/Custom hybrid and swapping the magnet are probably on the right track...but so much of that tone is the Eventide.

So, Panama, coming full circle, to me sounds like the Frank, with the Eventide being used to fatten it up -- but to be fair Ed didn't remember. It certainly could have been the (then) brand new (as yet unnamed) 5150 Kramer with the A2 '59.

 

[MrDowntown]

I know a lot of you guys have seen this video linked..if you haven’t you should. Some really good stuff about the studio work and how they recorded as a band. This is for the most part all about VHI, but at about the 8:45 mark he’s talking about the JBL’s and he plays back the. samples of the two SM56 mics on the 412.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Is there even an official 59 with an A2 in it? Or was that a custom sort of pickup for the Kramer line? Sounds interesting to me though for my money, the JB with an A2 is the sound of heaven under 6 strings. VH or not, it just kicks all sorts of ass. Demartini and Jake know their tone

 

[panhead]

100 watter torturing one 25 watt greenback cabinet

 

[RedPlated]

First record was MM1300 in the Frank, and possibly in the Destroyer -- though maybe still the Super 70s (which sounds similar in that application).

The unequal coil thing was much later - and pretty evident. You can hear the difference on boots and on the records. Fair Warning...anything with a bar (Franky) has a Telecaster-on-steroids tone, the stuff without a bar (Push Comes To Shove solo, for instance) is '59 Les Paul. Much fatter.

I think this unintentional coil tap thing partially led to the higher gain quest Ed went on.

Now, the original Seth Lover PAFs had pretty random coil windings, especially later as production increased. But nothing RADICALLY different unless there was a short. This would be extremely rare in a covered pickup but happens in an uncovered one. There is a sweet spot with slightly different coil windings where you get some very cool "air" in the tone, especially when the pickup is unpotted and the cover is still on. There is a certain slightly microphonic thing happening. I don't think that is what most chase here...most want that VH1 sound. Go get a Mighty Mite or a Dimarzio Super Distortion and be done with it. Don't believe me? Watch Pete Thorn's famous SL68 vid. But if you want that "Girl Gone Bad" tone, get a good lower dc resistance PAF clone with an A2 magnet and slightly asymmetric coils. For the Panama tone, those here looking at the '59/Custom hybrid and swapping the magnet are probably on the right track...but so much of that tone is the Eventide.

So, Panama, coming full circle, to me sounds like the Frank, with the Eventide being used to fatten it up -- but to be fair Ed didn't remember. It certainly could have been the (then) brand new (as yet unnamed) 5150 Kramer with the A2 '59.

I really appreciate your contributions to this topic. Great info.

The 59 a2 has been fantastic in my Charvel. The amount of output is shocking for a pickup that measures 7.9k on my meter.

I’m picking up a Mean Street Kramer 5150 replica today. I’ll likely put the 59 a2 in there. It’s got a poplar body. I’m curious what that will do to the tone.

Is there even an official 59 with an A2 in it? Or was that a custom sort of pickup for the Kramer line? Sounds interesting to me though for my money, the JB with an A2 is the sound of heaven under 6 strings. VH or not, it just kicks all sorts of ass. Demartini and Jake know their tone

The 59 a2 isn’t available off the shelf. It’s an easy mod, though. $4 magnet and a few minutes to change them.

 

[Rdodson]

100 watter torturing one 25 watt greenback cabinet

Nah, that amp was doing 30-35 watts max. Ed turned the Variac down until the light started to flicker, which is 89-90 volts. Depending on the bias (he just turned it all the way up) that's about 30w.

 

[Rdodson]

Nah, that amp was doing 30-35 watts max. Ed turned the Variac down until the light started to flicker, which is 89-90 volts. Depending on the bias (he just turned it all the way up) that's about 30w.

Interestingly, if you want to hear the magic 12301 at even lower voltage/wattage, check out Ed sitting in on David Letterman in '85 in LA (not the later appearance with Val in NYC). Pilot light is completely out and the amp is squish city. Probably ~ 20-25w.

 

[MrDowntown]

I’m picking up a Mean Street Kramer 5150 replica today. I’ll likely put the 59 a2 in there. It’s got a poplar body. I’m curious what that will do to the tone.

I’m geeked for you man! Hope you’re pleased!

 

[lll]

SD SH-5 Custom in a strat for 1st album Franky tone.

"PAF on steroids"

Why the Custom? The tone is all there, and there's provenance.

In 1979 Oct issue of Guitar Player (which I have), Seymour placed an ad for his company listing the Custom as the "VAN HALEN" model pickup.

Ed saw this, called Seymour and asked "What the hell man?".

Seymour changed his ad and erased the "VAN HALEN" parts for the next month.

Ed speaks of this incident in an early interview (his 2nd IIRC) with Jas Obrecht.

 

[harddriver]

Is there even an official 59 with an A2 in it? Or was that a custom sort of pickup for the Kramer line? Sounds interesting to me though for my money, the JB with an A2 is the sound of heaven under 6 strings. VH or not, it just kicks all sorts of ass. Demartini and Jake know their tone

Yes... it is called the custom shop 78 model. Asymmetric coil winds with an A-2 magnet at around 9K ohms. My above clips is the 78 Model and it really covers alot of ground from VHII to 1984 IMHO. The one exception is that while it sounds really good it is not 100% accurate to VHI as Rdodson states.

Ed may have experimented with a 1400 13K MM and the Dimarzio super distortion not to mention the Ibanez Super 70(Ibanez explorer) but I fully believe that VHI was a MM1300 which is anywhere from 8-9K but it has this crunchy almost fuzz quality of the fretted single note grind that you hear on VHI whereas VHII is warmer and smoother(Seymour's rewound PAF question is how overwound was it? 9K-14K?)... it's still a stellar tone into 12301 but it doesn't have that specific crunchy attack the MM 1300 has that you hear on VHI. Ed made statements in documented interviews that he thought his tone on VHI was too raspy in the high end but I am paraphrasing what he said hence the change in VHII.

I also believe he went back to the MM or possible Dimarzio SD for WACF just listen to the grind on WACF it's almost chainsaw grind compared to VHII but my money is on the MM1300 or 1400.

You can hear a 1300 versus a SD59 in that Ossie Ahsen pickup shootout, it's pretty obvious once you really listen to all the different pickup attributes.

After all my years trying probably all of the theorized pickups for VHI with the exception of the MM1300 until recently I am quite comfortable in agreeing with Rdodson that VHI was a MM1300 9k and or an early Dimarzio Super Distortion you can hear it all in Ossie shootout. You really have to play the MM1300 to hear what we are talking about.

 

[Rdodson]

SD SH-5 Custom in a strat for 1st album Franky tone.

"PAF on steroids"

Why the Custom? The tone is all there, and there's provenance.

In 1979 Oct issue of Guitar Player (which I have), Seymour placed an ad for his company listing the Custom as the "VAN HALEN" model pickup.

Ed saw this, called Seymour and asked "What the hell man?".

Seymour changed his ad and erased the "VAN HALEN" parts for the next month.

Ed speaks of this incident in an early interview (his 2nd IIRC) with Jas Obrecht.

He was mad because it referenced Van Halen without Ed's permission. And it was originally meant to copy the tone Ed was getting on VH1, which was the MM. Ed gravitated towards the A2 sound afterwards.

 

[Rdodson]

Yes... it is called the custom shop 78 model. Asymmetric coil winds with an A-2 magnet at around 9K ohms. My above clips is the 78 Model and it really covers alot of ground from VHII to 1984 IMHO. The one exception is that while it sounds really good it is not 100% accurate to VHI as Rdodson states.

Ed may have experimented with a 1400 13K MM and the SD distortion but I fully believe that VHI was a MM1300 which is anywhere from 8-9K but it has this crunchy almost fuzz quality of the fretted single note grind that you hear on VHI whereas VHII is warmer and smoother(Seymour's rewound PAF question is how overwound was it? 9K-14K?)... it's still a stellar tone into 12301 but it doesn't have that specific crunchy attack the MM 1300 has that you hear on VHI. Ed made statements in documented interviews that he thought his tone on VHI was too raspy in the high end but I am paraphrasing what he said hence the change in VHII.

I also believe he went back to the MM or possible Dimarzio SD for WACF just listen to the grind on WACF it's almost chainsaw grind compared to VHII but my money is on the MM1300 or 1400.

You can hear a 1300 versus a SD59 in that Ossie Ahsen pickup shootout, it's pretty obvious once you really listen to all the different pickup attributes.

After all my years trying probably all of the theorized pickups for VHI with the exception of the MM1300 until recently I am quite comfortable in agreeing with Rdodson that VHI was a MM1300 9k and or an early Dimarzio Super Distortion you can hear it all in Ossie shootout. You really have to play the MM1300 to hear what we are talking about.

Ossie's shootout was really fantastic. Such a good dude with a neat sensibility about him. Relentlessly passionate and a great pair of ears.

 

[RedPlated]

I’m crossing my fingers that one day Pete Thorn will do an in-depth 1984 Deep Dive video. Similar to the one he recently did with mostly VH1/ 2 songs.

 

[RedPlated]

Just picked up the MS 5150.

Wow. What a great guitar. Resonant and lively. Neck shape is fantastic. Playability is really nice.

I’ll probably get the 59 a2 into this and see how it does.

 

[harddriver]

Nice Redplated! I'm glad it played well, I think you will love the poplar body as Ed's guitar tech confirmed the 5150 Kramer was not basswood but poplar.

What did you feel the MS was worth after playing it? Did you pay full asking price?

 

[RedPlated]

Nice Redplated! I'm glad it played well, I think you will love the poplar body as Ed's guitar tech confirmed the 5150 Kramer was not basswood but poplar.

What did you feel the MS was worth after playing it? Did you pay full asking price?

He was asking 1260 for it with an extra Duncan 78 also included. We agreed to $1000 even. I’ll likely sell the 78, I already have two. That should put me at around $900 into the MS. I’m happy with that. It’s in phenomenal condition. The parts are all top notch. OFR Floyd, Gotoh tuners, one piece maple neck with skunk stripe and an EVH Frankenstein humbucker.

 

[harddriver]

He was asking 1260 for it with an extra Duncan 78 also included. We agreed to $1000 even. I’ll likely sell the 78, I already have two. That should put me at around $900 into the MS. I’m happy with that. It’s in phenomenal condition. The parts are all top notch. OFR Floyd, Gotoh tuners, one piece maple neck with skunk stripe and an EVH Frankenstein humbucker.

Yeah all those great parts do make it worth what you paid, a real Floyd means alot to me anyway as I disliked the Floyds on the EVH striped and MIM Charvel. Even at a 1000 that's not bad with the paint work and such, you would probably have more into a 5150 build even if you did it yourself, quaility parts cost $$$$$.

Congrats...the guitar looks awesome and it's even better when they play as good as they look. You are now fully ready for your 1984 Ed Yellow tiger striped sport coat along with your new 5150 Kramer!

 

[RedPlated]

Yeah all those great parts do make it worth what you paid, a real Floyd means alot to me anyway as I disliked the Floyds on the EVH striped and MIM Charvel. Even at a 1000 that's not bad with the paint work and such, you would probably have more into a 5150 build even if you did it yourself, quaility parts cost $$$$$.

Congrats...the guitar looks awesome and it's even better when they play as good as they look. You are now fully ready for your 1984 Ed Yellow tiger striped sport coat along with your new 5150 Kramer!

Hahahahaha...!! Tiger coat!

I noticed that the pickup height was very low. Probably 7-8mm from the strings. Screwed directly to the body. I don’t think Ed ran them that low. I put some foam and springs in the cavity and raised the pickup. I like 2.5mm low E / 2mm high E.

 

[RedPlated]

I made another Panama clip with the Mean Street Kramer. Really liking this guitar. The Frankenstein sounds great in it. I’ll likely just leave it in there.

I’m using my 1983 JCM 800 that I modded myself. It’s got quite a few features and can get really tight, high gain, but also does this sound really well, in my opinion. Not using the attenuator here.

I made a rhythm clip and then one with the solo section.