What Did George Lynch Mean When He Said This? (Music Theory)

[metalmaniac93]

I always took it as bullshit, because I've also read him saying some of the solos he played in the studio would have bandmates on the floor laughing because they were so bad (out of key), which means he has to "find it" every time he goes in to record a take. He's also said he "firmly believes you can play outside the key if you do it with enough conviction". I don't care how hard you mean it, a clam is a clam. George is an enigma wrapped in a mystery, he is one of a kind. That's his magic, that space between knowing what to play through theory and not knowing anything. If he had a deep theory background he wouldn't sound like him at all because he wouldn't play what he plays. In his prime (around the first Lynch Mob album) he was on fire, and probably the best soloist of his generation.

Lynch was definitely on fire around Back for the Attack and WS!!! One of the best of that era after EVH/Rhoads!!!

 

[Chester Nimitz]

Saw George do this in 1982' ...

 

[squealie]

Standard notation, is shapes. Chords on the piano are shapes. Trying to apply notation to guitar is awkward period. You certainly can play without being able to verbalize or notate what you're doing into standard theory. Communicating that to other players (not counting bass or drums, bc all you need is one note and the promise of weed) is another story...

 

[shredhead7]

The flat 5 is all over Lynch's style.

Yes! Aside from the jack off vibrato, it's his signature move. He almost always 'resolves' to the b5 or b7. I ate that up as a kid and that has certainly crept into my style.

 

[Dave Rocks]

Lately I've been paying attention to Pebber Brown videos.

The guys is a bit of a hard -ass (as he admits) but he is very knowledgeable.

Check out his stuff - very good:

https://www.youtube.com/user/pebberbrown

 

[Red_Label]

"The foundation of (my teaching approach) is the way I view the fretboard -- which is the way a lot of people view it -- and that's in shapes. You end up learning the same stuff you'd learn from notation or tablature, but it's a much easier way to understand it."

I've often heard different guitarists talk about this, but what are they talking about? How can you compose and improvise without knowing intervals, scales, etc? Is there some simpler way of doing all this without knowing any theory that has somehow eluded me? (barring the "play by ear" answer because that doesn't explain anything). How do you conceptualize the fretboard in shapes so that you know what to play over what chords, etc.?

I posted this here years ago. Boxes/shapes are a very simple way of looking at the fretboard and instantly knowing the notes to play. It doesn't tell you anything about phrasing, melodic/harmonic structure, etc. But it most definitely does tell you what's in and out of bounds (diatonically anyways).

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=127261

 

[Chester Nimitz]

 

[romanianreaper]

Man, I completely understand what he is saying because my head works that way.

When I was in high school, I was more interested in being in a band that learning the right way to play guitar. I have been playing since 85' and honestly can't tell you what notes (other than E is open and fifth fret on the next string, etc.) are on the guitar. I don't think a certain scale in my head, but instead think "ok, put my finger here then jump two frets and play two in a row, then do the same on the next string, then change it up and move it somehow". I know that is some scale but I have no clue the key, the mode, the reason, etc.

I have been in bands since high school and play by ear. I can't read a note of music but my improve blows people away. I was at a friend's house the other day sipping whiskey and he grabbed his guitar (that he doesn't play) and handed it to me. Nobody at the get-together plays music at all. I started dicking around and playing a Garth Brooks song, then Metallica, etc. I started making up funny songs and replacing the original lyrics with making fun of my friend's hair, etc. They were sitting there, drunk going "I don't get it. How the hell are you doing that?". I just laughed. It is the only way I know.

Vivian Campbell from DIO was the same way as Lynch and you can recognize them when you hear them play. I think it is good to have improvisation skills AND know theory. I have ADD and hate learning notes. It reminds me of Math.

 

[guitarded_1]

What George is saying here is very simple. I know nothing about theory and play almost exclusively in shapes. Mind you, I'm no George Lynch but I know the shapes and boxes that work in various keys. It's as simple an approach as there is. Too simple, probably.

 

[Findthetone1]

Man, I completely understand what he is saying because my head works that way.

When I was in high school, I was more interested in being in a band that learning the right way to play guitar. I have been playing since 85' and honestly can't tell you what notes (other than E is open and fifth fret on the next string, etc.) are on the guitar. I don't think a certain scale in my head, but instead think "ok, put my finger here then jump two frets and play two in a row, then do the same on the next string, then change it up and move it somehow". I know that is some scale but I have no clue the key, the mode, the reason, etc.

I have been in bands since high school and play by ear. I can't read a note of music but my improve blows people away. I was at a friend's house the other day sipping whiskey and he grabbed his guitar (that he doesn't play) and handed it to me. Nobody at the get-together plays music at all. I started dicking around and playing a Garth Brooks song, then Metallica, etc. I started making up funny songs and replacing the original lyrics with making fun of my friend's hair, etc. They were sitting there, drunk going "I don't get it. How the hell are you doing that?". I just laughed. It is the only way I know.

Vivian Campbell from DIO was the same way as Lynch and you can recognize them when you hear them play. I think it is good to have improvisation skills AND know theory. I have ADD and hate learning notes. It reminds me of Math.

I couldn't say it any better if I had to describe my playing situation. I fly by the seat of my pants when I play but have been doing it since the 80s. Do I know I could improve learning theory? Absolutely and I would never discourage a player from learning it. But for me it is just like math. No fun!

 

[Red_Label]

Man, I completely understand what he is saying because my head works that way.

When I was in high school, I was more interested in being in a band that learning the right way to play guitar. I have been playing since 85' and honestly can't tell you what notes (other than E is open and fifth fret on the next string, etc.) are on the guitar. I don't think a certain scale in my head, but instead think "ok, put my finger here then jump two frets and play two in a row, then do the same on the next string, then change it up and move it somehow". I know that is some scale but I have no clue the key, the mode, the reason, etc.

I have been in bands since high school and play by ear. I can't read a note of music but my improve blows people away. I was at a friend's house the other day sipping whiskey and he grabbed his guitar (that he doesn't play) and handed it to me. Nobody at the get-together plays music at all. I started dicking around and playing a Garth Brooks song, then Metallica, etc. I started making up funny songs and replacing the original lyrics with making fun of my friend's hair, etc. They were sitting there, drunk going "I don't get it. How the hell are you doing that?". I just laughed. It is the only way I know.

Vivian Campbell from DIO was the same way as Lynch and you can recognize them when you hear them play. I think it is good to have improvisation skills AND know theory. I have ADD and hate learning notes. It reminds me of Math.

I learned the modal "boxes" as a new player in my junior year of highschool (1985). After I graduated, I went on to major in classical guitar performance (where I had to learn to sight read and actual theory). Guess which method I still use to get around for most of my playing all of these years later? Hint: it does NOT involve looking at black ink on a white page.

I always used to tell my students to learn by ear and then to worry about reading and theory after they had a firm foundation with their ears (which is the opposite of how most classical musicians learned). Because there are some magnificent musicians/artists in this world who can't read and don't know theory. But find me a world class musician who can read well and knows theory, but who has tin ears. They don't exist. Music is about hearing. I also told my students to stop looking at their fingers and LISTEN to what they were doing. If you're not hearing what you're playing it's easy to make a mistake in finger placement and not even know it. But if you're listening, you'll know it's wrong the second you do it.

 

[riffermadness]

Man, I completely understand what he is saying because my head works that way.

When I was in high school, I was more interested in being in a band that learning the right way to play guitar. I have been playing since 85' and honestly can't tell you what notes (other than E is open and fifth fret on the next string, etc.) are on the guitar. I don't think a certain scale in my head, but instead think "ok, put my finger here then jump two frets and play two in a row, then do the same on the next string, then change it up and move it somehow". I know that is some scale but I have no clue the key, the mode, the reason, etc.

I have been in bands since high school and play by ear. I can't read a note of music but my improve blows people away. I was at a friend's house the other day sipping whiskey and he grabbed his guitar (that he doesn't play) and handed it to me. Nobody at the get-together plays music at all. I started dicking around and playing a Garth Brooks song, then Metallica, etc. I started making up funny songs and replacing the original lyrics with making fun of my friend's hair, etc. They were sitting there, drunk going "I don't get it. How the hell are you doing that?". I just laughed. It is the only way I know.

Vivian Campbell from DIO was the same way as Lynch and you can recognize them when you hear them play. I think it is good to have improvisation skills AND know theory. I have ADD and hate learning notes. It reminds me of Math.

I couldn't say it any better if I had to describe my playing situation. I fly by the seat of my pants when I play but have been doing it since the 80s. Do I know I could improve learning theory? Absolutely and I would never discourage a player from learning it. But for me it is just like math. No fun!

As said here and by romanianreaper & guitarded_1..I did play violin for 3-4 years,started in 2nd grade,by middle school 6th grade the violin wasn't cool and heard the guitar players back in late 70's and early 80's and knew it was what I wanted to do..even though I learned some theory playing the violin I was actually training my ears,so when I picked up the guitar around 82-83' I didn't want to take the time to sit down and learn all the scales/patterns,modes etc,it was too rigid..I just went with my ear and so far so good..I have tried to get some proper theory training that applied to the guitar but I always just went back to how I play today,all by ear and overall memory and seems to work out ok..I am no Pro but can do what I need to do to get me by..funny because George Lynch was really my main influence,but of course Randy Rhoads,EVH,DeMartini,Tony Iommi,Page,Hendrix,Jake E Lee just to name a few were my favorites as well..Really what works for me may not work for the other guy(s) but whatever works just go with it !!!! sah5150 above makes a good point too.

 

[JackBootedThug]

theory?don't understand any of it. i just beat on it and make grrrrr faces.

 

[Findthetone1]

theory?don't understand any of it. i just beat on it and make grrrrr faces.

And crab core poses?

 

[sg guy]

-I liked GEORGE best when he thout he sucked, typical, you
get caught up in a "contest" forget what got you there.
-THEORY- is just that, -a THEORY- no great -musician- ever used anyones elses theory, every single one of them had there own theory, we all have the same 12-notes to use, the combination's & scenario are very limited, then we limit ourselves even more with same ole standard scales, & as if we needed more restrictions, -CONVENTIONAL TUNING- as in EADGBE- check out some of the old -DELTA BLUES-tunings, its how Jimmy Page turned from thief, to original, to make those old blues songs Led Zeppelin was stealing sound "right", he had to use there tuning's-(DADADA is a blues tuning)-then he used middle eastern scales & tuning's-(he said he's been making up his own tuning's since the early 70's, and that he has finally!,. come up with the -PERFECT TUNING- but won't say what it is.)- -WTF- PAGE!!!!!

-do what you've always done, get what you've always gotten)-

 

[Jayy]

RE: outside of the scale/key. Forget who said it but "There are no bad notes, just bad resolutions." When I'm learning a Django song there are so many notes that, when played slow while learning, sound like THE worst possible note. But he resolves it so quickly and perfectly that the 'bad' note suddenly became the perfect spice.

SRV is another that often played 'wrong' but somehow made it sound right.

I guess that's what TALENT will do for people like SRV or EVH. I guess that means I'm shit out of luck....

 

[Findthetone1]

RE: outside of the scale/key. Forget who said it but "There are no bad notes, just bad resolutions." When I'm learning a Django song there are so many notes that, when played slow while learning, sound like THE worst possible note. But he resolves it so quickly and perfectly that the 'bad' note suddenly became the perfect spice.

SRV is another that often played 'wrong' but somehow made it sound right.

I guess that's what TALENT will do for people like SRV or EVH. I guess that means I'm shit out of luck....

Not me man! I'm the most bad ass guitar player and biggest rock star in my living room

 

[sg guy]

-SRV- stole the rhythm part of.. -(THE HENDRIX THEORY)-
-SRV was mortal & the copy never better than the original-

 

[Chester Nimitz]

 

[romanianreaper]

That video reinforces why me and my friends worshipped that guy's playing in high school.