you know.....Ace Frehley actually invented tapping

I don’t doubt that one of Ace’s fingers of his right hand somehow tapped the fingerboard. He could have been trying to mash a trapezoid inlay wondering why the smoke wasn’t coming out.

At the end of the day Ace is still Ace and Ed is still Ed. Those have been well established. It’s on tape. Whether that’s good or bad depends on your perspective. I always thought Ace was a joke and Ed was king but that’s just me.

I’ve never thought Ed invented tapping. He just did it well and was the one who popularized it. It’s too easy and too intuitive for people not to have tried it going all the way back.

EDIT: all these years later, the easiest part of Eruption, by far, is the tapping part. It’s a fairly easy technique that sounds way more flashy than it really is.
 
JohnnyGtar said:
I'd like to know when the earliest example of Ed tapping was recorded. I don't recall any tapping on the Gene Simmons demo, but it's been awhile since I've heard it. When did it first appear on a bootleg?
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That was the time frame Ed wasn't giving any secrets away. Even his playing on Simmons demo's for the Love Gun album it was just meat n potatoes although Ace played Ed's demo solo note for note on Chistine Sixteen.
 
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Floyd Eye said:
My first rock concert ever was Kiss with John Cougar opening ( boo'ed off the stage by the way) at the old Checkerdome in STL, October 2 1979. The last great Kiss tour.
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Gotta disagree here. The Creatures tour was amazing, musically live, nothing they did before or after could handle this era with Carr and Vincent and the show was great as well. I've seen them from Love Gun/Alive II era which to this day is my favorite show through to the Farewell and Creatures for me still stands out because Gene and Paul were playing for their careers. They sounded like a machine on that tour and as a diehard it was cool to hear them with a drummer and guitarist that could compete with modern players at that time. Much of the 70's stuff is gold but there is no way the band could have moved forward in the 80's with Ace and Peter.

Next I'd have to put the Revenge tour and even the Hot in the Shade tour as standouts. Musically they were on fire those tours as well.
 
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SpiderWars said:
I don’t doubt that one of Ace’s fingers of his right hand somehow tapped the fingerboard. He could have been trying to mash a trapezoid inlay wondering why the smoke wasn’t coming out.

At the end of the day Ace is still Ace and Ed is still Ed. Those have been well established. It’s on tape. Whether that’s good or bad depends on your perspective. I always thought Ace was a joke and Ed was king but that’s just me.

I’ve never thought Ed invented tapping. He just did it well and was the one who popularized it. It’s too easy and too intuitive for people not to have tried it going all the way back.

EDIT: all these years later, the easiest part of Eruption, by far, is the tapping part. It’s a fairly easy technique that sounds way more flashy than it really is.
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Ace used his pick to tap. And there is no doubt at all that Eddie was the first in popular music to do it well and is responsible for popularizing the technique.
 
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jabps said:
Gotta disagree here. The Creatures tour was amazing, musically live, nothing they did before or after could handle this era with Carr and Vincent and the show was great as well. I've seen them from Love Gun/Alive II era which to this day is my favorite show through to the Farewell and Creatures for me still stands out because Gene and Paul were playing for their careers. They sounded like a machine on that tour and as a diehard it was cool to hear them with a drummer and guitarist that could compete with modern players at that time. Much of the 70's stuff is gold but there is no way the band could have moved forward in the 80's with Ace and Peter.

Next I'd have to put the Revenge tour and even the Hot in the Shade tour as standouts. Musically they were on fire those tours as well.
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Clearly it’s subjective. There’s literally nothing after the Dynasty album/ departure of Ace and Peter that interests me in the least though. Even Dynasty was largely a pile of crap. Love Gun was the last good Kiss album.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Clearly it’s subjective. There’s literally nothing after the Dynasty album/ departure of Ace and Peter that interests me in the least though. Even Dynasty was largely a pile of crap. Love Gun was the last good Kiss album.
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Agree, opinion. Nothing more. I get it though some fans stayed with them some didn't. Dynasty to me was ok to me as a fan at the time however Unmasked is garbage though. Thought so at the time and my opinion has not changed. I think most of their 80's output was excellent barring HITS. I really didn't get off the Kiss train until the original Farewell Tour. They said bye, I said bye. I wouldn't see them again until the the End of the Road tour to take my son, totally worth it for him but I'll always be a fan.
 
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jabps said:
Agree, opinion. Nothing more. I get it though some fans stayed with them some didn't. Dynasty to me was ok to me as a fan at the time. However Unmasked is garbage though. Thought so at the time and my opinion has not changed.
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I bought Dynasty at the time and liked some of it. Definitely it was the pivot point for Kiss sucking for me though. The Dynasty tour, the show I saw, was great though. To me, watching live videos, Kiss in '74-'75 was the apex. 100,000 Years, She, Got To Choose, etc..
 
Great stuff here -- thank you for this!

VonBonfire said:
Some dude probably finger tapped on his lute around 800 AD but I can't think of any 20's blues guys utilizing that technique. The blues guitar wizard of the 1920's is Tampa Red, who is now forgotten, but was quite a slide guitar player in his time and whose home was the center of the Chicago blues scene, or so I have read. But....they don't just give anyone a gold plated National Tricone so the story carries some weight. No fingertapping there but thanks for the vote of confidence brother!!!

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Floyd Eye said:
I bought Dynasty at the time and liked some of it. Definitely it was the pivot point for Kiss sucking for me though. The Dynasty tour, the show I saw, was great though. To me, watching live videos, Kiss in '74-'75 was the apex. 100,000 Years, She, Got To Choose, etc..
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First three albums were fire. In fact HTH is right up there with my favorite Kiss albums. Yeah the production is bad but the tunes are amazing, such an overlooked album even by diehards. I was lucky when I was a kid, my first show was Elvis lol. Then Kiss in '78 in Atlanta which was epic, then saw the Dynasty tour twice - Nashville and Atlanta, it was a great show.

The reason I love the Creatures is the bottom had fallen out. After Unmasked, The Elder they honestly were lucky to have anyone stick around and then they laid down the heaviest work of their career - that album for me was like giving the finger to all those who said they were done. It was how I always wanted them to sound and then the tour...think going from Tossin' n Turnin live on the Dynasty tour to War Machine on the Creatures tour, pretty big contrast. Creatures saved them from oblivion and allowed them to take the next step. But like I said, some stayed some left. Everyone has their reasons.
 
jabps said:
Gotta disagree here. The Creatures tour was amazing, musically live, nothing they did before or after could handle this era with Carr and Vincent and the show was great as well. I've seen them from Love Gun/Alive II era which to this day is my favorite show through to the Farewell and Creatures for me still stands out because Gene and Paul were playing for their careers. They sounded like a machine on that tour and as a diehard it was cool to hear them with a drummer and guitarist that could compete with modern players at that time. Much of the 70's stuff is gold but there is no way the band could have moved forward in the 80's with Ace and Peter.

Next I'd have to put the Revenge tour and even the Hot in the Shade tour as standouts. Musically they were on fire those tours as well.
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I liked KISS for a minute here and saw that tour, only KISS show I’ve been to.
 
I fucking love 80's KISS!!!

Killers (four new tracks)
Creatures Heavy and dark
Lick it Up Heavy and fast
Animalize Heavy, fast and a little dark
Asylum Heavy and brighter (they must have found they had something to live for)
Crazy Nights (ok this one I get, but I was 15 years old)

And I'll add, you aren't a KISS fan if Destroyer is your favorite fucking album!

I'll take Rock and Roll Over, Dynasty and Unmasked over the corny, character driven Destroyer and Love Gun.

Nothing touches the first three albums and Alive!

Yes, I will fight you.
 
I was one of those that found it hard to stick around after the departure of Ace and Peter. I was young and naïve and didn't understand the reasons why they were being ushered out. Now that I know I agree that they could not have continued successfully with those two in the lineup. I'm sure it was very difficult for everyone. But Ace was a great player back in the day with great tone. Lots of great riffs and solos. Too bad. Just goes to show you how drugs and alcohol can ruin a person if abused.

The only real standout song for me after that era was "King of the Mountain" off the Asylum album.

But by 1984 - I had moved on to Motley Crue and Ratt etc.
 
311splawndude said:
I was one of those that found it hard to stick around after the departure of Ace and Peter. I was young and naïve and didn't understand the reasons why they were being ushered out. Now that I know I agree that they could not have continued successfully with those two in the lineup. I'm sure it was very difficult for everyone. But Ace was a great player back in the day with great tone. Lots of great riffs and solos. Too bad. Just goes to show you how drugs and alcohol can ruin a person if abused.

The only real standout song for me after that era was "King of the Mountain" off the Asylum album.

But by 1984 - I had moved on to Motley Crue and Ratt etc.
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Really the reasons why Ace and Peter were sacked are irrelevant to me. If they had remained in the band and put out Creatures of The Night and all that shit that came afterwards it still would have sucked.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Really the reasons why Ace and Peter were sacked are irrelevant to me. If they had remained in the band and put out Creatures of The Night and all that shit that came afterwards it still would have sucked.
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Honestly, it would have been worse.
IMO Those guys couldnt keep up with 80's KISS.
 
dcburn said:
I fucking love 80's KISS!!!

Killers (four new tracks)
Creatures Heavy and dark
Lick it Up Heavy and fast
Animalize Heavy, fast and a little dark
Asylum Heavy and brighter (they must have found they had something to live for)
Crazy Nights (ok this one I get, but I was 15 years old)

And I'll add, you aren't a KISS fan if Destroyer is your favorite fucking album!

I'll take Rock and Roll Over, Dynasty and Unmasked over the corny, character driven Destroyer and Love Gun.

Nothing touches the first three albums and Alive!

Yes, I will fight you.
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Lol. Good description on the 80's stuff. COTN, LIU, Animalize, Asylum - loved them. Crazy...ahh it has some good tunes that were watered down with production and keyboards. I'd really love to hear that album remixed and drop the keyboards. There are some live videos out there of Bruce and his band playing tunes off that album and it makes you think, damn those were some good tunes, why did they have to soften them up. Granted they were playing the Bon Jovi game at the time.

I guess we'll have to fight though because Destroyer is my favorite Kiss album lol.

My top 10 studio -

Destroyer
Creatures
Hotter than Hell
Lick it Up
Kiss
Revenge
Rock n Roll Over
Dressed to Kill
Animalize
Asylum

Least favorite -
Unmasked - just no. It's like a teen pop album, ugh.
Hot in the Shade - bought it, returned it and refuse to own it to this day.
Psycho Circus - trash.
Sonic Boom - middling.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Really the reasons why Ace and Peter were sacked are irrelevant to me. If they had remained in the band and put out Creatures of The Night and all that shit that came afterwards it still would have sucked.
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True. It was a combination of both that put the nail in the coffin for me.
 
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