you know.....Ace Frehley actually invented tapping

311splawndude said:
I was one of those that found it hard to stick around after the departure of Ace and Peter.
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See I'm just the opposite. Had they stuck around I would have bolted. I mean crap like Dirty Livin, Torpedo Girl, Talk to me, Dark Light...yikes. To this day I can't listen to that nonsense. Not going to lie I can't listen to Ace's solo album.

Ace's best asset was his counter point rhythm's to Paul, his memorable solo lines and a handful of tunes he wrote or co-wrote with Kiss up to Dynasty. The rest of Ace's music to me is garbage. Worst thing ever happened to the guy was success that fueled his ego.
 
Billy Gibbons does a single-note tap in Beer Drinkers & Hellraisers and that was in 1973

I know older dudes did it but BG's is at least the first one I can think of in a rock context
 
jabps said:
Lol. Good description on the 80's stuff. COTN, LIU, Animalize, Asylum - loved them. Crazy...ahh it has some good tunes that were watered down with production and keyboards. I'd really love to hear that album remixed and drop the keyboards. There are some live videos out there of Bruce and his band playing tunes off that album and it makes you think, damn those were some good tunes, why did they have to soften them up. Granted they were playing the Bon Jovi game at the time.

I guess we'll have to fight though because Destroyer is my favorite Kiss album lol.

My top 10 studio -

Destroyer
Creatures
Hotter than Hell
Lick it Up
Kiss
Revenge
Rock n Roll Over
Dressed to Kill
Animalize
Asylum

Least favorite -
Unmasked - just no. It's like a teen pop album, ugh.
Hot in the Shade - bought it, returned it and refuse to own it to this day.
Psycho Circus - trash.
Sonic Boom - middling.
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Thats it, we're fightin'!

Totally, totally agree about Crazy Nights.

Cant believe you don't like Unmasked, something about that album I just really love.
Not the most "KISS" album, but for pop music, I dig it some catchy tunes. Plus Ace has three songs on Unmasked.

I never listened to anything past Revenge, and I barely remember that album.

My first concert would have been Hot in the Shade, but they cancelled the show.

Honestly I am starting to see a pattern with me and my listening?
I gave up on anything new by KISS at Revenge.
I gave up on Maiden at Seventh Son.
I gave up on Metallica at the Black album. I do like the latest 72 Seasons though.
I quit Megadeth at Countdown.
Quit Phish before El Fuego.
VanHalen at 5150.

Other bands I quit listening to the albums and just went for the live releases...
WASP Live in the Raw
Priest Live!
Scorpions World Wide Live
Black Sabbath Live Evil

Ok, I'm not fighting any of you, I'm just as mental as the next...
 
dcburn said:
Thats it, we're fightin'!

Totally, totally agree about Crazy Nights.

Cant believe you don't like Unmasked, something about that album I just really love.
Not the most "KISS" album, but for pop music, I dig it some catchy tunes. Plus Ace has three songs on Unmasked.

I never listened to anything past Revenge, and I barely remember that album.

My first concert would have been Hot in the Shade, but they cancelled the show.

Honestly I am starting to see a pattern with me and my listening?
I gave up on anything new by KISS at Revenge.
I gave up on Maiden at Seventh Son.
I gave up on Metallica at the Black album. I do like the latest 72 Seasons though.
I quit Megadeth at Countdown.
Quit Phish before El Fuego.
VanHalen at 5150.

Other bands I quit listening to the albums and just went for the live releases...
WASP Live in the Raw
Priest Live!
Scorpions World Wide Live
Black Sabbath Live Evil

Ok, I'm not fighting any of you, I'm just as mental as the next...
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Well there's really nothing worth listening to after Revenge except a few tunes from Carnival of Souls and a couple tunes off Monster.

There's about 4 tunes on Carnival that were kickin' and which Bruce shines. The rest sounds like an uncompleted album which it was. I will say Sonic Boom and Monster are middling at best, not worth the time barring a couple tunes off Monster. Tommy Thayer's playing, it's certainly competent but my god it puts me to sleep. One of the most uninspiring, unoriginal guitarists I've ever heard.

As for Unmasked - I was heavily into Ozzy, Journey, Van Halen, Rush etc... at that point. Here's some albums from 1980 - Departure, Permanent Waves, Back in Black, Women and Children First, British Steel, Blizzard, Zenyatta Mondatta. Comparatively "to me" it was just teeny bop. All the criticism that Kiss caught flack for, they actually evolved into that with that album. To me Unmasked was so bad I actually liked The Elder at the time. But seriously, to each their own, that is just where I was musically at the time. Maybe if the producer wasn't trying to make them sound like the Bay City Rollers I could have gotten into but as you can see by my favorite Kiss albums, I lean towards the heavier stuff.

Early Ace was certainly melodic I just wished the guy could have held it in check and advanced his craft. Hot in the Shade - great tour, terrible album. That's when they started diving into alot of classic material and the fans ate it up.
 
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jabps said:
Well there's really nothing worth listening to after Revenge except a few tunes from Carnival of Souls and a couple tunes off Monster.

There's about 4 tunes on Carnival that were kickin' and which Bruce shines. The rest sounds like an uncompleted album which it was. I will say Sonic Boom and Monster are middling at best, not worth the time barring a couple tunes off Monster. Tommy Thayer's playing, it's certainly competent but my god it puts me to sleep. One of the most uninspiring, unoriginal guitarists I've ever heard.

Early Ace was certainly melodic I just wished the guy could have held it in check and advanced his craft. Hot in the Shade - great tour, terrible album. That's when they started diving into alot of classic material and the fans ate it up.
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I always dug Bruce.
 
unfortunately best part of seeing kiss unmasked live at the Forum was that queensryche opened and prime tate nuked them off the stage



i blame finger lickin paul for disco era kiss

..i was made for loving you..!?! 🧚‍♂️🕺🏻
 
Fiesta Red said:
Great stuff here -- thank you for this!
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You're welcome brother. People be harping about Robert Johnson this Robert Johnson that. Sorry, great bluesman but Red had him beat by nearly 20 years plus played hokum and other types of music with "Georgia Tom" who was the Tom Dorsey that went on to write all kinds of famed gospel stunes, among other musicians. Listen to enough of his stuff and you will hear some licks and some tunes that Robert had to have peeled off of him directly. I think someone even found the gold plated National Tricone in a chicken coop someplace but I can't find a pic.
 
dcburn said:
Honestly, it would have been worse.
IMO Those guys couldnt keep up with 80's KISS.
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I like to pretend they quit because they knew Gene and Paul would take it in the very gay direction it went after Dynasty. I suspect Gene and Paul are the reason Dynasty and Unmasked suck. They were the principle song writers.

I don't get how anyone likes anything they did after Love Gun frankly. All that 80s, lick it up bullshit is ridiculous. And yeah, Unmasked and Dynasty were not good, but nothing that came after was either.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: rsm
Paul invented duck lips.

20231211_110125.jpg

20240904_145735.jpg
 
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Floyd Eye said:
I like to pretend they quit because they knew Gene and Paul would take it in the very gay direction it went after Dynasty. I suspect Gene and Paul are the reason Dynasty and Unmasked suck. They were the principle song writers.

I don't get how anyone likes anything they did after Love Gun frankly. All that 80s, lick it up bullshit is ridiculous. And yeah, Unmasked and Dynasty were not good, but nothing that came after was either.
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And for the life of me I can't understand people not digging Creatures, Lick it Up, Animalize, Revenge. Those were contemporary to the times. Creatures still stands up today. I get it you don't like it but alot of people did.

IMO Kiss started sucking because they gave into Ace and Peter's demands. Ace's solo music is like paint by numbers crap, won't even comment on Peter's because if anyone likes his solo album they're definitely not a rocker. Btw/ of the 9 tracks on Dynasty, three were by Ace. On Unmasked he would take another three so he absolutely contributes to some of the suckage. Actually the best songs on Dynasty were by Paul...as I've pointed out from above I have no use for Unmasked; whole album was a turd in my opinion.

As I said above the best of Ace was when he was playing counter to Paul's rhythm, great simple leads and writing a few tunes here or there like Cold Gin, Parasite or helping co-write some tunes. He was a solid ingredient. He never needed to be the main ingredient though. The more it became about Ace the more you got Torpedo Girl, and all the suckage that would follow.

But let's face it, alot of people love the fuckups, the goofballs, the supposed underdogs, the woe is me and that's why Ace still has "somewhat" of a career - unless you're having to deal with it on a regular basis like Gene and Paul did. I loved early Ace, loved his playing an vibe in the band until it all went to his head. He's been a slob for years. And as for the tapping I have no doubt he really thinks EVH got it from him because he's so oblivious to everything around him.
 
jabps said:
And for the life of me I can't understand people not digging Creatures, Lick it Up, Animalize, Revenge. Those were contemporary to the times. Creatures still stands up today. I get it you don't like it but alot of people did.

IMO Kiss started sucking because they gave into Ace and Peter's demands. Ace's solo music is like paint by numbers crap, won't even comment on Peter's because if anyone likes his solo album they're definitely not a rocker. Btw/ of the 9 tracks on Dynasty, three were by Ace. On Unmasked he would take another three so he absolutely contributes to some of the suckage. Actually the best songs on Dynasty were by Paul...as I've pointed out from above I have no use for Unmasked; whole album was a turd in my opinion.

As I said above the best of Ace was when he was playing counter to Paul's rhythm, great simple leads and writing a few tunes here or there like Cold Gin, Parasite or helping co-write some tunes. The more it became about Ace the more you got Torpedo Girl, and all the suckage that would follow.

But let's face it, alot of people love the fuckups, the goofballs, the supposed underdogs, the woe is me and that's why Ace still has "somewhat" of a career - unless you're having to deal with it on a regular basis like Gene and Paul did. I loved early Ace, loved his playing a vibe in the band until it all went to his head. He's just a slob. And as for the tapping I have no doubt he really thinks EVH got it from him because he's so oblivious to everything around him.
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Dude there’s a couple good songs on his solo album. Better songs than the ones he did on Dynasty and Unmasked for sure.

Fractured Mirror
Rip It Out
Snowblind


Even the lesser songs have good lead work in them. Speedin Back To My Baby blows as a song but the lead work is good.
 
Peter and Gene’s solo albums both sucked hard. Paul’s had some good stuff on it. Move On, Tonight You Belong To Me, etc.
 
jabps said:
And for the life of me I can't understand people not digging Creatures, Lick it Up, Animalize, Revenge. Those were contemporary to the times. Creatures still stands up today. I get it you don't like it but alot of people did.

IMO Kiss started sucking because they gave into Ace and Peter's demands. Ace's solo music is like paint by numbers crap, won't even comment on Peter's because if anyone likes his solo album they're definitely not a rocker. Btw/ of the 9 tracks on Dynasty, three were by Ace. On Unmasked he would take another three so he absolutely contributes to some of the suckage. Actually the best songs on Dynasty were by Paul...as I've pointed out from above I have no use for Unmasked; whole album was a turd in my opinion.

As I said above the best of Ace was when he was playing counter to Paul's rhythm, great simple leads and writing a few tunes here or there like Cold Gin, Parasite or helping co-write some tunes. He was a solid ingredient. He never needed to be the main ingredient though. The more it became about Ace the more you got Torpedo Girl, and all the suckage that would follow.

But let's face it, alot of people love the fuckups, the goofballs, the supposed underdogs, the woe is me and that's why Ace still has "somewhat" of a career - unless you're having to deal with it on a regular basis like Gene and Paul did. I loved early Ace, loved his playing an vibe in the band until it all went to his head. He's been a slob for years. And as for the tapping I have no doubt he really thinks EVH got it from him because he's so oblivious to everything around him.
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I hope you just forgot to add Asylum to your fist sentence list?

Wondering though, if you took Unmasked at face value for what it is, a pop record, you still wouldn't like it?
I just consider it a pop record by one of my favorite bands and think there are some good tracks...

Youre All That I Want and Shandi (I really dont think Shandi is terrible) I could probably do without, but the rest I dig.
There is some darkness in some of those songs...

I will say Ace's tracks are a little cheesy compared to his earlier writing in the band.
 
dcburn said:
I hope you just forgot to add Asylum to your fist sentence list?

Wondering though, if you took Unmasked at face value for what it is, a pop record, you still wouldn't like it?
I just consider it a pop record by one of my favorite bands and think there are some good tracks...

Youre All That I Want and Shandi (I really dont think Shandi is terrible) I could probably do without, but the rest I dig.
There is some darkness in some of those songs...

I will say Ace's tracks are a little cheesy compared to his earlier writing in the band.
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Yeah I know where you are coming from but the album has just not aged well with me. Dynasty...ok, I can deal with that but then Unmasked when stuff like Back in Black, British Steel and Blizzard was dropping. Just way to much stuff that came out in 1980 that heavily influenced me...I mean Blizzard changed the direction of my playing. I mean literally I was content being the rhythm player in my little school bands, playing my original Ibanez PS10 guitar to wanting to be on the only player in the band because of Randy and buying a Kramer and installing the Floyd myself with zero concept of proper distance between nut and bridge lol.

Some fans, especially players grow up with artists and they have these points where I got to, where they move past their bands for one reason or the other. And I can understand it because I hit that point with Kiss during the Unmasked era but I still stuck around.
 
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